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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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 Posted - February 24 2003 : 08:24:41 AM
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Gadget Girl: "The part about this movie that stood out to me was the comprehensive account of Fredricksburg. For the first time, not having any military background, the tactics of a battle were really clear to me! I understood so much. I've never seen a battle scene portrayed more completely and believably!"
Yes! Exactly! Well said. I was totally drawn into it, whereas many times (in other movies) I feel more than a little lost trying to figure out what is happening.
Movie critic posted by CTR: "It's the sort of film loved by lazy history teachers: long and loaded with enough information that it can pass as education. Characters enter the story with subtitles announcing their names. They speak in dialogue packed with facts and statistics. They discuss battle plans at length. They talk about relevant newspaper stories. Viewers may be unsure whether to eat popcorn or take notes."
I found this all extremely helpful! It was not overdone as this man suggests. (Methinks he is not one who is interested in the subject matter!) One does have to concentrate... perhaps stop chewing on the popcorn for a few moments... but it really enabled me to fully understand what was going on.
Rich: "Stonewall Jackson was an extremely religious man, to the point that many consider him fanatical ... all a bit "quirky," to put it mildly. So, it would seem focusing on this would be appropriate."
From what my husband says (who knows these things better than I), this is very true. Since this was so much a part of him, it was well done and fairly represented.
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - February 24 2003 : 11:38:45 AM
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Re: tricorns, et al......
I believe it was a Virginia militia regiment that wore tricorns, regimentals ala 18th c. There was a MYRIAD of unique uniforms early on in the conflict and such would not have been out of place. I can't put my finger on which at the moment....gotta REALLY change gears from F&I War years to the CW, and that isn't easy at my age! |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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daire
Colonial Settler
USA
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November 17 2002
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Posted - February 24 2003 : 7:56:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by richfed
but Stonewall Jackson was an extremely religious man, to the point that many consider him fanatical ... all a bit "quirky," to put it mildly. So, it would seem focusing on this would be appropriate.
"Fanatical" was a verb that crossed my mind. And that was after the first scene of this portrayal. But, as I said, JMO. 
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daire
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Many Flags
Colonial Settler
USA
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August 13 2002
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Posted - February 24 2003 : 8:25:06 PM
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| OK.....here are some thoughts after I saw the film on Sat. afternoon. But first, although I do F and I and Rev. War, Civil War was once my first love and I immersed myself in it....have done a lot of research on Jackson. So, here goes.....The portrayal by Lang, in my opinion, was very good...in fact, it could have been more fanatical for my tastes. This was a man who ate standing up...because it aided digestion....he would quote the Holy Book all the time, before going into battle would hold prayer meetings, etc. There were times when this really came through ("Kill them, kill them all!"). He and Lee were defending their "country"..Virginia. The battle scenes were right up there with "Gettysburg." But, this film can't really be compared to "Gettysburg" in many ways because it is not three days but several years (Aye, the transition from Bull Run to Fredericksburg was NOT done well....should have had some reference to 1862). So, whereas "Gettysburg" could be very specific and draw the action out (i.e. the first day with Buford)..G and G had to move faster or it would have been 10 HOURS LONG!! What I missed about G and G was the deep studies of the comradeship between the men.....like Armistead and Hancock in "Gettysburg". What I really liked was Lang's portrayal (he LOOKS like Jackson, too) and Duvall's....Sheen played Lee almost too serious....Duvall played Lee more human. Uniforms, etc. were excellent but then they used reenactors and they could wear their own stuff (unlike Patriot and Arnold which put reenactors in "costumes"). There is more, much more I could say. But for the sake of space, my review is a big thumbs up....I will rent it and buy it and watch it many times like "Gettysburg".....Pax Aye!! Many Flags (errr, uhhh,) I mean Sjt. MacWm.....(uhhhhh......) well, maybe Dr. Uncle Mark!!! |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - February 25 2003 : 05:22:35 AM
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... and the DVD, reportedly, will have an additional 2-hours, or something like that, of footage. Maybe 1862 will find its way into the mix then!
I'm hoping to see the flick this Sunday ... |
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daire
Colonial Settler
USA
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November 17 2002
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Posted - February 25 2003 : 12:25:39 PM
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Aye, the dvd will be 5.5 hrs.
"Running Time: approx 3 hrs 30 minutes; Director's cut (which will be on DVD) 5 hours 25 mnutes" http://gandgfilm.tripod.com/gods/movie.html (under statistics)
My dad said, "Cool!" Which isn't often. LOL
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daire
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - February 25 2003 : 12:42:42 PM
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Groooaaan! I guess I'm going to have to break down pretty soon and get a DVD player. Didn't really want to just yet, since I just replaced my VCR about a year ago. But this is just getting too tempting.
BTW, for me, that nearly 3-1/2 or so hours went so fast, and when the last scene began to fade out, I honestly thought: No! I don't want it to be over yet! |
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daire
Colonial Settler
USA
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November 17 2002
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Posted - February 25 2003 : 3:54:37 PM
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DVD players are getting cheaper all the time. Just after Christmas, I bought myself one for $100 on sale. It's a single disc Toshiba. There are 2 and 5 (not sure about 3) disc players. I have 3 Toshiba products, dad has the 2-disc Toshiba player, and we've been happy with them. And just think...that picture won't deteriorate like a vhs over time and viewings.  |
daire
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - February 26 2003 : 08:53:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Seamus
Re: tricorns, et al......
I believe it was a Virginia militia regiment that wore tricorns, regimentals ala 18th c. There was a MYRIAD of unique uniforms early on in the conflict and such would not have been out of place. I can't put my finger on which at the moment....gotta REALLY change gears from F&I War years to the CW, and that isn't easy at my age!
Aye, Seamus... you remember correctly! I literally stumbled upon this website while looking for G. & G. reenactment photos online.
They were the 31st Virginia Militia, known as the Continental Morgan Guard in honor of Rev. War hero Daniel Morgan. Shortly after the Civil War began, they became the 5th Regiment, Virginia Volunteer Infantry, Company K, and were part of the Stonewall Brigade.
You can check out their website, and see photos of them in their "original" Rev. War style uniforms, as well as G. & G. filming photos! www.geocities.com/csa5va/ Click on the Gods and Generals link and enjoy! |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
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Posted - February 26 2003 : 09:32:07 AM
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Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, Yes, WW....yes! And thank you!
You have saved my feeble mind from a serious gear-stripping. I owe you!! Ye'll get an extra ration of Port at Old Mill Village!
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Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 23 2002
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Posted - February 26 2003 : 2:50:12 PM
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 All right Rich, no spoilers!! And by the way, that scene where he...<bleep>... is just exactly as I had imagined it.
I was fortunate enough to see the movie on opening night with a group of fellow CW reenactors, so it was interesting to hear the variety of reactions. Some hated it, some loved it, and all for different reasons.
Although I felt Jeff Daniels "overacted" a bit, Stephen Lang lived up to every expectation I had of him in this perfect performance. He is incredible! I, too, hope he gets an Oscar nomination for this. He has been too often overlooked in the past.The actress who played his wife (not sure of her name) was also excellent, and last year when I heard Stephen Lang speak about the movie, he had nothing but praise for her talent and professionalism.
I don't know much about the mens' uniforms and weapons, but I can tell you that most CW civilian reenactors were *shocked* at the clothing and hairstyles portrayed in this film. Long, flowing hair, and white blouses with cameos were out of place. Show me a picture or cdv from that time period of a woman with her hair down and about her shoulders and I might change my mind. The widow in the black dress was the only one who really had the look.
Okay, picky details I know but I couldn't help it.
A gentleman in my reenacting group worked as an extra in the movie and we were all pleasantly surprised at how many times we saw him, GREAT shots of him, too. He shared his own thoughts with us, and I think he made a good point. Much has been said about the "preachiness" of the movie, but those parts are necessary to get at the core of Jackson, to feel where he is centered. My friend stated that one way to view the movie is as a story about men, conflict, faith, and character, not about the Civil War. THe really important things are not necessarily the uniforms, guns, hairstyles, or even the battle scenes, but the inward battles that ordinary men in extraordinary adversity face and deal with. My friend felt that the time period itself is secondary; that you could take this story out of the Civil War and set it in other time periods, in other conflicts, and the message would be just as powerful. I thought he made an interesting point.
I have to agree with the others that the Irish Brigade scene and the scene of Jackson, well, I don't want to give it away but he WAS crying but I won't say why..anyway those truly were two of the most powerful scenes in the movie. Wow.
Can't wait for the rest of you to see it; I've enjoyed the comments so far!!!
Steph |
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daire
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 17 2002
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Posted - February 26 2003 : 7:11:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie
Long, flowing hair, and white blouses with cameos were out of place. Show me a picture or cdv from that time period of a woman with her hair down and about her shoulders and I might change my mind.
I thought I read or heard something (a while ago, so I could be mistaken) that women/girls wore their hair (mostly) down until they were married, then they took to the pinned up hairstyles or until a certain age of maturity...
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daire
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
USA
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June 23 2002
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Posted - February 26 2003 : 9:22:04 PM
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| Yes I have heard that too, but the ladies I'm referring to were adults. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
USA
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June 23 2002
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Posted - February 27 2003 : 12:54:05 PM
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Wow WW Thanks for sharing those sites!!
Steph |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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 Posted - March 12 2003 : 08:06:02 AM
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Are any of you familiar with the artist Mort Kunstler? I just discovered his work and I think he is quite good. He is the "official" artist for the movie Gods and Generals, as he was for Gettysburg.
When I found these paintings of his, I was blown away... especially with this one. Go here and check it out, but BEWARE! If you read the text below it, there are spoilers! If you don't want to read the text you can still safely look at the painting. Just don't scroll down. I will just tell you that it is a painting of Steven Lang as Gen. Stonewall Jackson, and those of you who have seen the movie will recognize the scene immediately. Enjoy!
www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/merchant.ihtml?pid=821&lastcatid=103&step=4 |
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daire
Colonial Settler
USA
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November 17 2002
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Posted - March 12 2003 : 1:05:10 PM
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| I've never heard of MK, but WOW, that his a fantastic painting of that scene. Which, IMO, is one of the more powerful ones. |
daire
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - July 12 2003 : 11:04:22 PM
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Well, if any of you missed this one in the theaters, you can at least watch it at home now. On Tuesday the 15th, it is being released on video and DVD.
Don't hesitate to rent it! If you want to buy it, you can get it through Amazon. Just be sure to get to Amazon's website through the Mohicanpress website, so Rich and Elaine can get a bit from your purchase. I plan to! |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - July 13 2003 : 07:14:51 AM
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Thanks for the plug, WW!
Very important, too ... with the rapidly diminishing suppy of the booklet On the Trail of the Last of the Mohicans - our main source of income for the site, the book store becomes all the more important for the survival of the web site.
Visit the Mohicanland Book Shoppe on the Frontier and make all your on-line purchases of books, videos, CDs, and the like through it. It really helps! Even if the title you are looking for isn't there, as long as you use the Search Engine, we get credit.
As for Gods & Generals, I can't wait! Still haven't seen it, but my DVD copy is ordered. I got my pre-release order of Gangs of New York delivered to my door two days after the release date! |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 03 2002
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Posted - July 16 2003 : 12:08:59 PM
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Well, I rented G&G yesterday, and watched it last night. I was satisfied it compared favorably with Gettysburg. Wonder when Last Full Measure will be coming out (the third part of the trilogy)?
There were some hokey parts in the movie, but then there were some in Gettysburg too. Jackson praying with Jim was kinda hokey. Particularly Jim's part of the prayer, and Jackson's reaction. I can fully understand Jim's prayer being as it is portrayed, but find it difficult to believe the white reaction would be that understanding and mild. Oh well. It made it's point, and that was the intent I am sure.
Overall, I liked it a LOT. As much as I liked Gettysburg. Gburg had a lot of dialogue inserted which was used to set the stage in attitudes and motivations also. Like others, I was happy to see some of the guys back from Gettysburg. Chamberlains, Hancock, etc.
And I DO think it is time somebody made a recent movie portraying the Southern viewpoint for going to war. So often they are portrayed as simply refusing to give up slavery and that was what started the war. Not so. It WAS a dispute about how much power a central government should have - and they DID feel the Federal troops raised to "crush the rebellion" were indeed invaders. At that time, it was unthinkable that Federal troops would be raised specifically to invade what were still considered sovereign states.
Chamberlain in the movie makes the perfect counterpoint to that argument....though I doubt very many whites back then would state they'd be glad to give the life of their own brother and themselves in order to "free the blacks".
That the North won was good for maintaining the identity and vitality of this country, BAD for curtailing the power of central government.
At any rate, I thought it great. |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 03 2002
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Posted - July 16 2003 : 12:25:23 PM
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| Something else I think I picked up on, having watched both G1 (Gettysburg) and G squared (Gods and Generals). In G&G it looked to me like Lee was a supreme strategist - the Wily Grey Fox - while Jackson was a supreme tactician. Lee would make the strategic decisions about when and where to fight, then allow his generals to make all the tactical decisions about deployments and methods to defeat the enemy on the chosen ground. With the loss of Jackson, at Gettysburg, it seemed that Lee began making the tactical decisions as well, which led to his loss in that critical battle. Or so it seems to me. Any of you history adicts or reenactors able to provide more learned viewpoint on that? |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - July 17 2003 : 06:14:01 AM
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Upon Jackson's death in the final moments of the Chancellorsville battle, Lee reorganized the Army of Northern Virginia. No longer two Corps [Jackson/Longstreet], it became 3 [Ewell/Hill/Longstreet]. Besides the loss of the war's most brilliant general [Jackson] this new alignment, I feel, led to the breakdown of communication [Stuart's cavalry, or lack of, playing no small role in that!] and consequent inactivity that led, finally, to the defeat of the Confederates at Gettysburg. In my mind, Stonewall Jackson's presence would have changed things dramatically.
As far as the hokeyness goes ... I haven't yet seen "Gods & Generals," but based on "Gettysburg," I'd have to say that any hokeyness might be the result of the filmmaker's desire to present the 1860's through the eyes of the 1860's. What may appear hokey to us, in the 21st Century, was anything but back then ...
Again, I can't wait to see this film ... so, does the DVD version include more footage of a relevant nature as advertised?!? |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - July 24 2003 : 06:26:44 AM
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OK ... I received my DVD copy of "Gods & Generals". Haven't watched it yet; hopefully sometime over the weekend. All I've done, so far, is carefully examine the covers & watch some of the added features ...
Of note:
-- Despite rumors, it appears to me that this version is identical to the theatrical release. I think the "5 hour" time is meant for the entire DVD, INCLUDING the bonus features. That how I take it, anyway.
-- GREAT bio on Stonewall Jackson!!! In light of discussions elsewhere on this board, I found it interesting that he sought out, and rejected, Catholicism. Very interesting stuff.
-- Just the trailer alone gave me chills. Can't wait to see this!!!!
-- A superb "Making of ..." segment on the Battle of Fredericksburg portion of the film. I didn't know it till I viewed that, but the town of Fredericksburg [home of Marc & Cherie, btw!!!] is actually present-day Harper's Ferry! Great choice. If I have time - and remember - I'll scan some pics of that place taken while on vacation 10 or 12 years ago. Harper's Ferry is a wonderful place to visit!
-- EXCELLENT music videos!! The Bob Dylan tune, and especially the one by ... by ... I forget her name ... Mary Fahl  maybe? ... are hauntingly beautiful!
There's more, too ... and I haven't even watched the movie! |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - July 24 2003 : 9:02:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by richfed
OK ... I received my DVD copy of "Gods & Generals". Haven't watched it yet; hopefully sometime over the weekend. -- Just the trailer alone gave me chills. Can't wait to see this!!!!
Why do I suddenly hear Carlie Simon singing.... "An-ti-ci-pa-tion..."?
Rich, you are gonna LOVE IT!! I received my copy of the video, and hope to find a large enough block of time to watch it soon. The extras on the DVD sound great, too. Yes, it is Mary Fahl. I also purchased her CD that contains the song from G & G. I have heard it so much, and I still get a lump in my throat when I hear it. It is so incredibly beautiful. Makes me want to get out the ol' fiddle, clean the rust off my fingers and try it out. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - August 17 2003 : 09:09:54 AM
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A pic I had laying around the old 'puter ... taken, if my memory is correct, last September - might as well put it to use:
So ... who are these two?!?  HINT: One is in Gods & Generals ... the other isn't, but lives right here!
On another note, I know I posted my reaction to this film ... somewhere, but obviously not here!  I did love it! |
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Gods and Generals
