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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
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July 13 2007
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 Posted - July 29 2007 : 6:26:49 PM
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I agree with you, Irishgirl. While we know what Jesus would do, it seems rare. I certainly wouldn't do it for a man who didn't love me (well, let me think. . .no, not even for Uncas).
So, why does the option of Duncan sacrificing himself for Cora have more votes than any other? Is this a romantic fantasy that people have? Or do men think differently than women? So, what does obi think? |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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July 17 2005
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Posted - July 29 2007 : 6:55:03 PM
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| The don't like Duncan and want to see him burned. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - July 29 2007 : 7:23:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by winglo
Or do men think differently than women?
If only we could count the ways. . . ! 
As for figuring out why Duncan would sacrifice himself for a woman who doesn't love him, I think we should rewind to the "tea party" scene. In the director's cut, Cora remarks that she and Alice have depended on Duncan "since we were all children." If they were childhood friends, his sacrifice would have deep meaning, regardless of the fact that she wasn't romantically in love with him. The fact that he was in love with her makes the scene more powerful, but a great part of his motivation could also have been the (rather brotherly) affection of a lifelong friend.
And while we're on the subject, there are a surprising number of stories written by men in which male characters are willing to sacrifice themselves for women who don't love them and whom they don't necessarily love. How about A Tale of Two Cities or The Deerslayer?  Curious! |
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Last of the dustbunnies
Pioneer
USA
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July 17 2007
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Posted - July 29 2007 : 9:55:01 PM
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its possible he wouldn't of known what happened to him, he probably could of thought he was going to be traded back to the english, but when sachem explained what they were going to do.... that was in huron... so maybe he didn't know.... |
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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August 16 2006
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Posted - July 29 2007 : 10:44:11 PM
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Oh, he knew, all right...
And speaking of "Duncan Donuts," I see that Krispy Kreme is going Tango Uniform in high gear. |
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Last of the dustbunnies
Pioneer
USA
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July 17 2007
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Posted - July 30 2007 : 12:22:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
Oh, he knew, all right...
And speaking of "Duncan Donuts," I see that Krispy Kreme is going Tango Uniform in high gear.
i cant get over that! duncan donuts! I love it so much!
nice obi, you got geezers rock in flames now, i like it! |
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - July 30 2007 : 10:57:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Last of the dustbunnies
its possible he wouldn't of known what happened to him, he probably could of thought he was going to be traded back to the english, but when sachem explained what they were going to do.... that was in huron... so maybe he didn't know....
If he didn't it sure would have been one big "OS" moment when he figured it out! 
I think he knew, though. Even Hawkeye, who apparently doesn't speak Huron, says "Take me! My death is a great honor to the Huron!" Cue shared significant look, then Duncan says, "I said to take me." I think he knew what was coming, but probably not how. Ick. What a nasty surprise.
quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
And speaking of "Duncan Donuts," I see that Krispy Kreme is going Tango Uniform in high gear
Really? That's funny. They're pretty popular around where I live. For some reason, selling Krispy Kremes seems to be the school fundraiser. Oh well. Don't like donuts anyway. (I had to look up "Tango Uniform," BTW. ) |
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Last of the dustbunnies
Pioneer
USA
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July 17 2007
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Posted - July 30 2007 : 9:27:44 PM
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thats true, but if i died, i'd rather a quick one, not being burned alive thank you very much! |
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - July 30 2007 : 11:29:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Last of the dustbunnies
thats true, but if i died, i'd rather a quick one, not being burned alive thank you very much!
Ditto here! But at least Duncan had Hawkeye to help him out with that . . . I guess.  |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - July 31 2007 : 11:37:25 PM
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| Notions of love, honor and what one "should" do are far different than they are today and it's hard for someone in this day and age to understand why Duncan made the sacrifice. Yes .. he knew what was in store for him when he traded hinself for Cora, even the newly arrived in America had heard all the stories of what happened to Indian captives, and he did it without hesitation. She was slated to be burned....why would he think that they would spare him?? He knew Hawkeye would protect Cora and get her back alive. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Last of the dustbunnies
Pioneer
USA
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July 17 2007
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Posted - July 31 2007 : 11:45:30 PM
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good point |
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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Posted - August 01 2007 : 08:55:02 AM
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Since we've been talking about this scene so much lately, I watched it last night on VHS and DVD to compare.  I hadn't really thought there was much of a difference between the two versions but I kept seeing stuff on IMDB about the "edited" Director's Cut of the scene, so I decided to check it out. Wow! The VHS version is much better! (In my opinion.)
In the VHS version, Duncan shares a long, significant look with Cora after Hawkeye asks, "Did you tell him?" His facial expression says so much in this shot: he looks absolutely terrified but at the same time it comes across very strongly that his primary motive for sacrificing himself is love for her. In the Director's Cut, the look has been pared down and you don't get the same impression (or at least I didn't). 
Also, Duncan's screams have been edited out of the Director's Cut, for the most part. In the VHS version you can hear them in the shot that shows Cora and Hawkeye running up the mountain and the second shot of Duncan burning in the fire. There are no screams in either shot in the Director's Cut. Maybe it's sadistic of me, but I like the version with the screams better. It's more chilling, and adds more meaning to his sacrifice, if we know that Cora and Hawkeye have to hear him yelling all the way up the mountain. 
Poor guy. Ouch! |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - August 01 2007 : 09:48:53 AM
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Here's what Duncan knew was coming:
The preferred way of burning a captive was to roast him in the fire...not burn him. The stake was set and the fire built around it in a circle several feet away so that the heat would burn and cook the prisoner and the torture inflicted last much longer. The tribe could taunt and poke at the condemned with burning hot brands and heated ramrods...firing blank charges into the skin at point blank range was not uncommon.
quote:
Ditto here! But at least Duncan had Hawkeye to help him out with that . . . I guess.
No guessing about it...he would have wanted it that way..
quote:
Colonel William Crawford endured a horrific death at the hands of his Indian captors. According to one eyewitness account, he was tied to a post and “seventy shots of powder were fired at his body. Indians then cut off his ears, prodded him with burning sticks, and tossed hot embers at him. [He] continued in the extremities of pain for an hour and three quarters or two hours longer . . . when at last, being almost totally exhausted, he laid down on his belly; they then scalped him .. An old squaw got a board, took a parcel of coals and ashes and laid them on his back and head, after he had been scalped.
Colonel Crawford then raised himself upon his feet and began to walk around the post; they next put a burning stick to him as usual, but he seemed more insensible of pain than before.” Crawford finally died from his wounds, but not before begging those around him to end his misery with a bullet.
This is also posted here on this site.
http://www.ridertown.com/history/torture.html
Duncan could have sent Hawkeye to face this end but chose not to, was it love of Cora? Yes..he knew that Hawkeye would get her back safely but he also knew that it was something that he was expected to do...as an Officer and a Gentleman and that it would redeem himself in the eyes of Cora.
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HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
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Posted - August 01 2007 : 11:58:35 AM
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Again I say . . .
OUCH!
And that's putting it mildly. When Nathaniel himself is about to be burned at the stake in another of Cooper's books, he watches the women and boys of the Huron tribe making sharp splinters out of pine roots. Their purpose is to drive the splinters into his flesh and set them on fire, in addition to the main BBQ. 
I'm glad Mann just left Duncan's punishment to being burned alive. All the rest would've been unnecessarily gross. And I'm glad he's not naked like the guy in the painting above. That would've been unnecessary too. |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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February 14 2006
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Posted - August 01 2007 : 12:02:44 PM
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| Geeze, poor Col. Crawford. What a horrible way to die. That man surely went straight to heaven as he had been put through enough "suffering" already. |
IG |
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
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July 13 2007
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Posted - August 01 2007 : 1:47:48 PM
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| Wow! I thought it was bad enough in the VHS version. |
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angicx
Pathfinder
USA
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August 21 2007
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 02:13:16 AM
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Quote: I'd say it's a tossup between duty and sacrificing himself for Cora's happiness - RedFraggle
(Note: couldn't get the "quote" thingy to work)
I agree with this statement... |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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August 16 2006
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 08:26:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by angicx
Quote: I'd say it's a tossup between duty and sacrificing himself for Cora's happiness - RedFraggle
(Note: couldn't get the "quote" thingy to work)
I agree with this statement...
To make the "quote thingy" work, just click on its symbol (the page with the curved purple arrow pointing into it) on the top row of the post you want to quote & your Reply Box pops up -- then just start typing your reply below "[/quote]". You can even edit the quote if you wish... |
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angicx
Pathfinder
USA
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August 21 2007
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 11:34:36 AM
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Thx Obi, I realized I was retarded not long after I posted that. I was trying to copy and paste (which I figured out works also) and wasn't putting my quote BETWEEN the quote symbols.  |
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why did duncan choose to die?
