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Lurking Huron3087
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 Posted - March 20 2004 : 11:54:26 AM
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Uncas and Alice almost never spoke to each other...but a love story was still created out of their actions...amazing..a touching one at that.. the three or four lines..depends on the way u look at it..
George Road
Alice-"Stop them! We need them to get out!"
Uncas-"Why do you need the horses?"
Under the falls
Uncas-"Get back!"
tHat's all they said to each other, folks..the rest were just looks and looks and looks...that spoke volumes...bet it's the only love story with three/four lines of dialogue...
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xHanx
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 Posted - March 22 2004 : 1:38:00 PM
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thats what i love about this film, esp the uncas/alice angle, of the subtle love story which is beautiful and haunting and is a contrast from the overt love story of cora and nathaniel. The intensity of the feelings communicated almost entirely visually, minus any cheesy dialogue which may even prevent the intensity of feeling. Its difficult to put into words something which was obviously beautifully beyond words, if you catch my drift! what a masterpiece... |
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Mylene
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Posted - March 22 2004 : 9:02:21 PM
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| the phrase actions speak louder then words really comes into play in this movie. not just the love between uncas and alice...this is at a time when literacy isnt what it is now, so they *had* to rely on what they had, which was mainly looks, and silence. |
Silence is golden...but shouting is fun! |
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Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - March 22 2004 : 9:26:37 PM
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i dont like it...
the attraction between them is... animalistic...
lust, and nothing more. |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
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Lurking Huron0943
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Posted - March 22 2004 : 11:09:38 PM
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| I have to disagree. If Uncas's attraction to Alice was only based on animalistic and lust, why would he risk his own life to save her? He must have true feelings for Alice in order to have done what he did for her. |
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - March 23 2004 : 01:10:47 AM
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Hmm.. i would have to disagree bout the lust and nothing more angle..though it could be seen as that as they barely spoke..
but if u notice the way uncas looks at alice at every scene he does..u don't really see lust..more like some kind of yearning..and deep feelings...or maybe it's just eric's mermerizing eyes.. |
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - March 23 2004 : 01:14:02 AM
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Hmm.. i would have to disagree bout the lust and nothing more angle..though it could be seen as that as they barely spoke..
but if u notice the way uncas looks at alice at every scene he does..u don't really see lust..more like some kind of yearning..and deep feelings...or maybe it's just eric's mermerizing eyes..
but i think it was really love on uncas's part.. nothing else..he gave his life for her.. the last part when he got slashed and looked at alice...i think he knew he was going to die fighting magua..but he saw the almost hopeful look she gave him..and he decided to give his all..love i say.. :)
and i so agree bout the looks and silence thing.. it's magnetic |
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xHanx
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Posted - March 23 2004 : 05:41:27 AM
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| I think to an extent there is more animalistic passion and lust in Cora and Nathaniel's relationship, Uncas is probably aware of Alice's youth and naivety whilst to Alice Uncas' race and way of life is completley alien, so stepping out of those boundaries would have taken courage. However I think they both have gentle, quiet,noble qualities which they recognise as kindred spirits in each other, that is where the attraction lies, Uncas may have felt he could relate to Alice's quietness and help and protect her, i think there is a big element of him wanting to protect her,but not in any lustful or consuming way. |
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - March 23 2004 : 12:52:44 PM
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xHanx..
you have described their relationship to the T..great analysis..
that's exactly the way i feel about their relationship..just didn't know how to put it...Uncas just wants to protect Alice..and both have that quiet air of dignity...
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Ithiliana
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Posted - March 23 2004 : 4:13:50 PM
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howabout when he jumped on her in the waterfall scene?
no words, nothing...
yea, they look at each other, but unless they're telepathic...
looking at someone doesn't really tell you much about them now does it?
or at least thats what they drill into our heads at school...
"dont judge a book by its cover", etc...
how can they really know each other just by looking?
and yea, i never said the natty/cora romance was not animalistic...  |
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xHanx
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Posted - March 24 2004 : 08:15:23 AM
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looking at what someone is wearing does not tell you much about them, i'll admit but when it comes to reading peoples feelings and emotions...whole different issue! I think it is possible for feelings without words even if they don't actually come to realisation. may not be love in the sense of actually saying out loud to someone, but it captures that element of mystery and what could be when attraction first arrises, and I think Uncas and Alice have an understood, if unsaid attraction.(see earlier post!) as for the waterfall... again the protection element as he holds her, we as an audience are permitted to project our feelings on to this so much is left to the imagination, which in my opinion is a good thing...i don't want it made explicit....and risk losing it's quiet beauty.  |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - March 24 2004 : 08:39:09 AM
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I have said it before... somewhere... and I'll say it again:
I have watched this movie numerous times and I have yet to see any evidence that Alice was in love with Uncas. [WW throws herself to the ground to avoid the sudden surge of musket balls coming toward her]
Yes. Uncas was in love with, or at least very attracted to, Alice. He was the one who gave all of the tender looks toward her. I cannot recall seeing any tender looks given back to him by Alice. She was so frightened about what was happening to her that she never even noticed Uncas' attentions to her. "Stop them! We need them to get out!" This was not a romantic statement. This was Alice being worried about Alice. The scene under the waterfall? I did not see her respond in any way when he pulled her back and held her. By this time, she was like a zombie, for want of a better term, and could think of nothing but her situation. She was close to her final "snapping" point, which came when she jumped from the cliff to escape Magua. She did not jump to join Uncas in death.
Poor, dear Uncas. He was very much the victim of unrequited love. And he died for it. A truly tragic figure.
Sorry, ladies and gents, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it!
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xHanx
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Posted - March 24 2004 : 09:28:09 AM
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mmm a well thought out and backed up argument. Where it splits for me however is the point at which Uncas is about to be thrown to his death and Alice's look of horror and hopleness for me is an interpretation of her feelings towards him. She may not regard him with love, and there is a strong argument that she was a highly strung individual unable to cope with the brutal life on the frontier, however, i believe she does regard Uncas as her protector, and if her fragility and naivety prevented love then i believe she saw Uncas as a 'figure' of love, otherwise i maintain that she would not have reacted with the force of pitifulness and loss that she did. There can be no doubt that Uncas was the character most able to feel, and interpret his own feelings, but to say that Alice was not able and aware of Uncas' inclinations or even feel (however clouded with confusion) some of her own, in my opinion is an underestimation of Alice's character. One of many great attributes to the film is the dimentional characters, portraying within the film, life's contradiction and grey areas which i for one , am unable to see in black and white. |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - March 24 2004 : 10:11:57 AM
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And your rebuttal is also well thought out and backed up! Thank you! In fact, it is so well done that I am going to have to watch the cliff scene again to really study the emotions on Alice's face. (Any excuse to watch the movie again, right?  )
At this point, anyway, I feel that the emotions that show on Alice's face are more reflective of how she perceived Uncas' death would affect her present situation. Yes, I think at this point in the story, she had come to look upon Uncas as her protector... her rescuer, if you will, because he had always been there for her. So I think that when he was stabbed and thrown from the cliff, she did feel a strong sense of loss -- of her friend and potential rescuer. She then realized that her situation was quite hopeless and that was when she decided that death was better for her than what would happen to her at the hands of Magua.
Underestimate Alice's character? On the contrary. As we have discussed at great length on this board, we watch Alice as she changes from an almost giddy "invalid schoolgirl", to a frightened young woman whose situation is out of her control, and finally to a courageous young woman whose emotional and physical sufferings cause her to make the difficult decision to take her own life. She is an excellent study, and one that I enjoy thinking about a great deal to try to figure out just what she was thinking as her "ad-ven-tia" turned so incredibly sour for her. She is one of the great tragic figures of cinema history.
But, was she "in love" with Uncas? No, I really don't believe she was.
Again, thank you xHanx, for presenting a meaty argument!
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Lurking Huron7236
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Posted - March 24 2004 : 10:55:07 AM
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It's pretty obvious that Uncas was in love with Alice..but the other way round..is well...as you two argued..hard to tell..
but based sorely on her expressions during that last scene...I would say she cared for him to a certain extent..not sure whether she was deeply in love with him..but definitely she cared..
cared enough to have the courage to look when Uncas was slit at the throat by Magua (note:She is always screaming and hiding in Cora in the earlier scenes)...
the ambiguity arises mainly because of all the cut scenes of them together i think..which makes it hard to figure out Alice's feelings for Uncas...Uncas's feelings for her is pretty clear-cut..maybe because he is older and knows exactly what he is feeling..and we know that too..but Alice?? There is some suspicion on whether she knew her actual feelings for him..due to her young age and fragility...
according to the script..she was attracted to Uncas right from the point he covered her mouth at the burial ground..so at least if that was added..we would know that she did have some form of attraction for Uncas...but with so many scenes cut out..
well..depends on how one inteprets their expressions..
i would go for she cared for him deeply..maybe even loved him a little |
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Marg222
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Posted - March 28 2004 : 09:07:32 AM
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Let me tell you what my opinion is... here it comes...
Maybe there was no love..! Alice is so young and unexpirienced (did I write this well?) and Uncas fellt the need to protect the poor thing. He knew that the love between Cora and Hawkeye is serious and because he wants to make his brother happy, he protects the sis of Cora. And Alice... well, she was just happy that someone protected her... I think that love wasn't the thing for them.
I hope you understand what I'm trying te explain. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way...  well let me know.
love... marg |
I do not call myself subject too much at all... -Hawkeye |
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - March 28 2004 : 10:24:26 AM
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Hmm..interesting opinion...
I would agree that Alice may not have been deeply in love wtih Uncas..she being young and inexperienced..but on Uncas, I don't think he protected Alice just to make his brother and Cora happy.I don't think it's in his character anyway...From the start , he was interested in her...maybe they too few scenes together to show any development..but I think Uncas was genuinely in love with her..or at least he looked it.Sure, he wanted to protect her..but I think love had some to do with it.As for Alice..she's a complex one..i would say he had feelings that ran a little deeper than that of someone who just wanted protection |
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Lurking Huron1568
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Posted - March 28 2004 : 5:06:00 PM
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I agree with the last post (before mine I mean). I think they cut too many scenes to show what really was felt between Alice and Uncas, or at least enough that so many people are wondering what really was between the two. I mean, the script even says that they both had exchanged looks and that behind the waterfalls (something that they DIDN'T film) they made love. (To clear this up, in my opinion, when they said "making love" I think they meant it in the clean way of just kissing and holding each other. But I think they both loved each other, she felt that in him she would be safe and he felt that in her, he would be needed. He seemed to be the type to want to protect. Oh! And they also shared looks when they were by the burial grounds and that's when the father "saw it and didn't like it". Lemme stop before I keep going and going.
I've posted before but I've been trying to register for the past 3 days and it's not working.
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Lurking Huron1568
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Posted - March 28 2004 : 5:12:25 PM
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Here's the link to read the script that was written by Micheal Mann and Christopher Crowe if you are interested. Even if they don't ever come out with a dvd with all the deleted scenes, at least you can fill in the gaps with some of the parts from the script.
I thought the script was great, too bad they (MM) didn't think the same way.
htt://www.un-official.com/The_Daily_Script/lastmohi.txt
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 12:52:42 PM
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Yeah..I could going on and on 'bout those scenes that weren't acted out or were cut out too!!!.those concerning Alice and Uncas..
I thought the original script was great.. with more looks between them and more dialogue..
fortunately Jodhi and Eric made used of whatever screen-time they had together with fantastic and touching acting to come up with such a masterpiece.it's such an un-Hollywood kind of love story..and I love it...what they lacked in speech they certainly made up in gazes and gazes and more gazes...
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rydergrl
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 3:59:30 PM
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I agree with statements from several posts. First of all, I agree that Uncas had a strong attraction to Alice. I agree that the "looks" he bestowed upon the young Miss Munro spoke volumes. However, I also believe that Miss Munro was ignorant of these looks and feelings. The reason we know the "love story" exists is because we have read the script with the deleted scenes, and because we have now learned to "look" for it and perhaps read more into it than is actually there. First time viewers of this film, and persons who are ignorant of this site would probably not even recogize the "attraction." I didn't.
I have read the script posted at this site and know that scenes were deleted which depicted a love interest between Alice and Uncas. However, in watching the movie, I do not see a love interest on Alices' part. Uncas does gaze upon Alice at different intervals--the waterfall, the burial ground, (which I'd almost missed), behind the waterfall, and finally at the cliff, but not once are these "looks" returned. Even as Uncas fights for her life as well as his own, the only look I see on Alices' face is one of horror as she realizes that her chances of survival are slim and none. I see that she is hoping against hope that Uncas will somehow kill the Huron war chief and save her from her plight. I see no look of recognition on Alice's face, or in her eyes when Uncas looks at her on the cliff--no light bulb goes off in her head. Alice, once free of her capturors grasp, just stands there and stares in horror as Magua slits Uncas' throat, watching her last chance for survival being thrown from a cliff.
Perhaps that is the beauty of the story--That Uncas unbeknownest to Alice, esteemed her greatly. Probably fantasized about a life with her; watched her and watched over her, protected her and in the end, gave his life for her, and she all the time, unaware.
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump), I still feel she was trying to escape a life living among hostiles. Remember, when Alice was escorted from the Huron camp, she did not know what fate had befallen the others and had no idea that others were coming to save her her.
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Lurking Huron1573
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:32:41 PM
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rydergirl...I have to completely agree with everything you posted. Maybe I was hoping that Alice felt the same way so that Uncas had not died in vain. But the way you explained it made more sense...yes...I think she was oblivious to his love. The reason I believed though that she was in love with him before was because of some statements made by eric schweig and russell means commenting on the scenes that were deleted that those two were in love. Maybe Alice was in love with him but it just didn't come through like that because of the short time that was spent on that romance? Did I just confuse anybody? My english is so bad.lol
Thing is, until we see the deleted scenes, we will never know and can just speculate if it was love between the two or just coming from Uncas. Fun to speculate though, ain't it? |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:43:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump)...
You have me perplexed over this comment. Did you mean that you think Alice "fell" to her death accidentally? Or did you mean that she didn't "jump", in that she didn't flex her knees and propel herself off the cliff as though she were doing the broadjump?
I realize this could be merely semantics but to me, saying that she fell to her death implies that it was accidental, which is definitely not the case here. |
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marybo73
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:45:37 PM
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The above post was me....I've been forgeting to log in before submitting the post. Sorry! |
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marybo73
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Posted - March 29 2004 : 6:58:56 PM
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The statement that Alice fell from the cliff and didn't jump is strange...if you meant that she fell (accidentally) then I will have to disagree. She looked at Magua and knew what she was going to do, she looked determined for the first time in the whole movie. She turned and let herself gracefully "fall" but on purpose. No jumping like on a trampoline but she didn't fall by accident "oops! lost my footing" either.
Just my opinion though. |
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rydergrl
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Posted - March 30 2004 : 12:53:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump)...
You have me perplexed over this comment. Did you mean that you think Alice "fell" to her death accidentally? Or did you mean that she didn't "jump", in that she didn't flex her knees and propel herself off the cliff as though she were doing the broadjump?
I realize this could be merely semantics but to me, saying that she fell to her death implies that it was accidental, which is definitely not the case here.
Sorry, didn't mean to perplex or confuse anyone. I watched the movie again this weekend, twice, looking for all the angles discussed on this board. When I say Alice "fell" from the cliff, I don't mean she accidently tripped or missed her footing. It's just that she did not jump. She literally "let" herself fall from the cliff. She did not "flex" in any way, or exercise any emotion, she just turned slightly, and off the cliff she went, "falling gracefully" (if you wish) to her death.
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Love story with the least dialogue ever..three lines!
