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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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 Posted - December 11 2003 : 5:12:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhisagan
What do y'all think of the likelihood of a militiaman having a french infantry 1728 in his possesion at the beggining of The American Revolution?
Bodhisagan, here is a quote about militiamen going to war early in the revolution, which may be a secondary source, it mentions some with French muskets:
“[one man with] a long fowling piece, without a bayonet, a horn of powder, and a seal-skin pouch, filled with bullets and buckshot. . . Here an old soldier carried a heavy Queen’s arm with which he had done service at the conquest of Canada twenty years previous, while by his side walked a stripling boy with a Spanish fusee not half its weight or calibre, which his grandfather may have taken at the Havana, while not a few had old French pieces, that dated back to the reduction of Louisbourg.” History of Lynn, p. 338
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YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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Bodhisagan
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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November 28 2003
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Le Canadien-Français
Lost in the Wilderness
Canada
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 22 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - January 05 2004 : 7:08:03 PM
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This topic makes me sick... It remind me that I have ordered a French Fusil de Chasse de Tulle smoothbore in .62 caliber from Narragansett Armes last month and I have to wait until May to make some smoke with it. Help me ! |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - January 06 2004 : 04:34:24 AM
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There is a Fusil for sale on the net right now for $450.00..
Belay that.. I just checked..it's gone already .. I figgered it wouldn't last long......was a Centermark.... |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Tim Cordell
Pioneer
USA
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July 18 2002
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Posted - January 06 2004 : 08:46:23 AM
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| As far as a French fusil in the early days of the Revolution; I have seen a photo of Captain Parker's musket.(Of Lexington Common/Green fame).. I think that it is French - a Tulle fusil perhaps. It hangs on the wall in the Mass. State Senate chamber. The photo is in the excellent book "Paul Revere's Ride." The description says that it looks French but that it had extensive repair work with English/American parts being substituted and the there is heavy burn back in the lock area. By the way, in order to comply with the Mass. state gun laws, it has a new trigger lock installed. Can you imagine??? I wonder what Captain Parker would think of that? Regards, Tim |
Tim Cordell |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - January 06 2004 : 1:24:37 PM
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From extant examples of the weapons used at Lexington/Concord, one of the surviving fusils was a fowler with a markedly French style stock. It was stocked in cherry with various parts from other guns used to make it. I have seen several of these with this style stock although it was French influenced the English also used it on the Wilson Trade gun...
For the 225th anniversary of the Lexington/Concord "Shot heard Round the World". Hundreds of re-enactor units were asked to attend to recreate "Battle Road". Where thousands of Farmers followed the British troops back from Concord to Boston sniping and skirmishing all day. The whole big celebration of American freedom nearly collapsed when it was realized that the new Mass. State Gun Laws prohibited anyone from bringing a firearm into the state, and that included flintlock muskets and rifles. They also realized that the guns they had on display in the State Capitol were all illegal in that they did not have the state mandated trigger locks installed.
So if you think that any sane govt. would not try to take away your rights to own a black powder flintlock. Think about Mass. the birthplace of the "Embattled Farmer". "Oh, they only want to control, handguns, automatic weapons, assault weapons...etc.." BULL! They want them ALL...... |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 27 2003
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Posted - February 29 2004 : 8:52:28 PM
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| I finally got a chance to proof and try shooting at marks with my new Brown Bess. What a difference from smokeless powder guns! There is no recoil with black powder. When I sight in the 12 gauge pump I have to use several inches of foam padding because the recoil really beats you up. The Bess throws a bigger lump of lead but no recoil at all! What a fun day! |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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Oneida
Pathfinder
USA
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February 07 2004
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Posted - March 02 2004 : 5:49:57 PM
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| What does a Pedersoli "2nd model" Bess go for these days? |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - March 03 2004 : 12:41:00 AM
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quote:
Oneida asks: What does a Pedersoli "2nd model" Bess go for these days?
Well my friend, get ready for the heart attack, they go for around $800-$900 range. That is of course, without any accoutrements, the bayonet goes for another $100-$125. On the positive side you are getting a weapon which is machined and fitted very well and will give years of trouble free service.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
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September 27 2003
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Posted - March 03 2004 : 07:22:30 AM
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| Loyalist Arms has a nice 1st model Bess at $610 and a 2nd model Bess at $640 so you can shave a little off the price if your impression could use the "older" gun. For an Indian inpression, perhaps their 1740s-1750s Trade gun at $485 would fit in. Loyalist Arms are great people to work with. It's a lot harder in New York to buy black powder than it is to proof the barrel. :) Four pounds of Red Dot smokeless powder? Fewer places than there used to be but no problem. One pound of FFg black powder? You better have well-connected friends. |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - March 03 2004 : 8:26:28 PM
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You are right, Kurt, there are excellent weapons available at a more reasonable cost. As to the black powder issue, unfortunately our friends at the ATF have made the retail store sale so difficult as to scare a good number of FFL holders off. A solution to this, if it is permissable in your state, is to get some of your buddies to pool their money and buy a case from a distributor like Maine Powder Warehouse. The cost is less than $9.00/pound, and they only carry quality brands. I have an account through them, and I have always received satisfactory service.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
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September 27 2003
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Posted - March 04 2004 : 06:20:55 AM
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Yes, Sarge, with New York only allowing a person to have five pounds of black powder, you kinda have to make group buys. It isn't clear if at least five guys and gals have to go pick it up so when you cross the border there are enough people on hand. A sergeant of our Ranger company has a pound of FFFg he can spare so I will be ok this year. I guess we are supposed to make our own.  |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - March 04 2004 : 4:45:32 PM
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Kurt, is the law such that you are only allowed to purchase and/or possess five pounds of powder? I can see where it would interfere with the logistics of any moderate sized reenactment group.
New York has some strange laws; for instance part of my soldier's uniform is a gunmetal stocked highland pistol, and in order for my men to carry their pistols they would have to have a New York CCW (Weapon Carry Permit). I guess that they had a rash of robberies by men in kilts brandishing late-17th century flintlock pistols...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
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September 27 2003
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Posted - March 04 2004 : 5:03:53 PM
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I was talking on the phone with a fellow in Massachusetts about buying powder and I think he said possess but I will try to figure out how to check. Perhaps my sergeant (who also is a sutler for flintlocks and parts like springs) has gone through the intense pain of New York licencing.
The need for a New York CCW for any operational pistol is a fact. I could get started on what the governor of New York is trying to do to pistol permits but this is a family-oriented place so I better not. |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 27 2003
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Posted - March 04 2004 : 5:26:01 PM
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| I found an application for an explosives licence and it says no license needed to possess 5 pounds or less so yes to transport more than five pounds requires a $50 license and a $50 fingerprinting (maybe only the licence annually). |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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jeff42nd
Pathfinder
USA
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February 02 2004
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Posted - March 06 2004 : 07:54:13 AM
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Hey Guys
I found a 1756 Version Long Land Pattern Brown Bess Flintlock Musket
for $539. Accrding to the site the "vent is not drilled". I was looking at the pictures that they have and it looks really close to the original Bess.
What do you guys think about them? Has anyone bought from this site? What the 411 about this musket or company?
http://www.militaryheritage.com/muskets.htm
42nd Highlander
Murray's Company
Private Jeff |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - March 06 2004 : 08:51:08 AM
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quote:
Jeff42nd asks: What do you guys think about them? Has anyone bought from this site? What the 411 about this musket or company?
That is where Corporal MacInyre purchased his Long Land Pattern from. Since it was the first production run, there were some 'bugs' to work out. The most serious was when his briddle cracked at Monmouth. He contacted the folks at MH/DG, and they asked to see the lock. After he mailed it, he started having reservations about the company. However, within three weeks, they sent his old lock back and also gave him a brand new lock assembly to install in his weapon. Needless to say that he was very pleased with the service standards of Military Heritage/Discriminating General, and he will continue to do business with them.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - March 06 2004 : 1:29:31 PM
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| I don't know that I have seen the latest offerings from India, but of those I have seen, the metal parts look like they have been chromed and polished with a buffing wheel. I have never seen any custom made guns or reproductions which looked like that. I doubt that any of the originals ever did. I once took the writing off the barrel of a CVA pistol, and polished it with 500 grit sandpaper until not a scratch mark or file mark was left, and the barrel never shined like those Indian guns do. Maybe it is possible to dull that finish, but it just makes me wonder how it got that way in the first place. And has anyone removed the breech plug on these? It might be something worth considering before firing one. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - March 07 2004 : 5:27:54 PM
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quote:
Fitz asks: Maybe it is possible to dull that finish, but it just makes me wonder how it got that way in the first place.
The finish does dull after a while, the bright finish is due to buffing with an air powered wheel (a querry sent to the manufacturer via DG confirmed that therory).
quote:
Fitz asks: And has anyone removed the breech plug on these? It might be something worth considering before firing one.
There was no breech plug on the one I dismounted, it is machined from a solid piece of ordinance steel (Just like the Pederisoli 'Bess'). You could magnaflux the barrel, and that would show any external cracks, or you could have a complete NDI (Non Destructive Inspection) performed by any certified metalurgist who would be able to locate inperfections within the steel itself. Such inspections are not that costly (less than $100), but if peace of mind is what you are looking for, it is pretty cheap.
Judging from my own experience with these weapons, they are very servicable. The man in my company who has one spent all of last season firing blank loads of 130 grains FFg. He also fired it with ball cartridge, using .715 ball and a charge of 120 grains FFg. So far, so good...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - March 08 2004 : 01:18:11 AM
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| I once bought a Japanese-make Harpers Ferry pistol, and thought I got a good deal. Then I showed it to a dealer, and he told me never to fire it. The breech plug had been soldered in, not threaded! Another gun I bought turned out to be short-breeched. Now I am really wary of anything I buy, unless I know who made it. I believe I would proof the gun with 160 gr. and two patched balls, or better yet, have someone else do it. |
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Henry dit Henry
Lost in the Wilderness
Canada
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April 03 2004
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Posted - April 03 2004 : 3:43:10 PM
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Remember that after 1760 a rather large number of french
guns had been taken from the "habitants " of former Nouvelle
France by the British governement , many of those are described
in the book " Weapons of the American Révolution "
by G. Neuman
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - April 04 2004 : 6:43:31 PM
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| There are some comments from one of the Military Heritage people here that you might find interesting. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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alikws
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 23 2003
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Posted - April 05 2004 : 4:35:20 PM
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interesting...
a bit of talk also on revlist about the india besses and discriminating general, with passionate arguments on both sides...
i've got one of the first india pattern india made besses, cut down and reworked a bit...
the lock needed polishing of internal parts and the main spring lightened [i think it came off a buick]... the feather spring was replaced with one from a pedrosoli [lighter and different bend] and the frizzen case hardened... the lock to barrel fit was tightened up... it took some work, but that bright shiny polish is now a dark worn and slightly pitted rust brown... the stock was reshaped a bit, given a proper swell, and narrowed and lightened considerably... in short it made for a solid reliable canoe gun with good flint life... i carried that in '03 on the lake, using a flint that saw all of cherry valley a couple weeks earlier - no misfires
for comparison a jap bess that pulled guard duty over a fireplace for a couple decades, relieved only by sar-type parades needed almost all parts case hardened, the internals polished and mild reshaping, and the frizzen case hardened before it would even spark enough to fire... that ended up one of the better handling and most reliable muskets i ever carried...
view the india muskets as kits in the white, expect to do some mild tinkering, and they can be inexpensive reliable solid historicly accurate muskets...
on the other hand the pedrosoli's have some problems [shape, barrel too heavy &c], but you can resonably expect to buy one from the sutlers friday night, clean and inspect it, and be ready for saturdays spectator battle...
if you realy want quality, an original is unbeatable in regards to fit and finish, but they cost
the government a soldiers pay for a month, in an era where labor was cheap.... lots of small details you don't see in a reproduction, like case hardened screwheads, inspectors marks and job number on _every_ part [based on an 1863 springfield and an 1835 prussian 1809 musket]
more later... alikws - an abenaki with a screwplate! |
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Gus Fisher
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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August 04 2004
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Posted - August 04 2004 : 3:19:30 PM
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Wow, just found this forum whilst looking up some info on Japanese Besses for another forum.
Sergeant Munro might remember me as one of two guests from the Major's Coy, 42nd RHR as his unit so kindly allowed us to participate with the Captain's Coy at the Under the Red Coat Event at Williamsburg a couple/three of years ago. May I publicly state how much we appreciated falling in with them and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves?
Even though we are from a "low browed bonnet bunch" they kindly allowed us to participate in their most fashionable "hat" unit. Of course, I'm the true Campbell, not the McDonald in disguise that was with me. Chuckle.
Anyway, I read with interest about the new repro's not having separate breech plugs and I think Sergeant Munro mentioned the Pedersoli does not have one. My old Pedersoli Carbine had one and I will have to check the "new" Pedersoli I got from Navy Arms last year has one.
I just thought I might mention one problem with not having a breech plug is that a hardened "plug" of powder residue will form in the breech and could cause real problems with functioning. I dismount my breech every year and sometimes find a formed plug just ahead of the breech plug, even with careful barrel cleaning. With the breech plug out, one can punch through the residue plug and clean it thoroughly. If you don't have a breech plug, and a residue plug forms, one might have to resort to a brass or bronze scraper on the end of a rammer or threaded rod between soakings of one's favorite solvent, but it is going to be much more difficult to do. So another good reason to clean one's musket carefully.
Yr Hbl & Obt Svt,
Gus Fisher |
It's great to wear a Philabeg, carry a flint musket and STILL be able to shoot at Yankee's. Just kidding....... |
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Many Flags
Colonial Settler
USA
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August 13 2002
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Posted - August 04 2004 : 4:07:01 PM
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Gus.....it's me not Munro....both sarges, both large, Munro does hats, we do Grens, he is with 42nd F and I and our group does 42nd Rev. War and 77th F and I. So, you were with me at Wmsburg two years ago. MIssed you this year....saw your name on the roster, but you must have been detained with the baggage??!! Hope to see you again sometime.
1st Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam, 77th/42nd Grenadiers |
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choosing a Brown Bess
