| Author |
 Topic  |
|
sidony
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 21 2002
Status: offline
|
 Posted - July 08 2002 : 11:03:43 PM
|
With the exception of Jodhi May, all of the actors in LOTM fit my mental image of their characters. When I read the book, I envisioned Alice as smaller and more dainty, with blonder hair and more delicate chiselled features than Jodhi May. What do you think?
|
|
report to moderator
|
|
|
Ongewasgone
Pioneer
Italy
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - October 27 2002 : 05:30:25 AM
|
Yes Sidony, I agree with you.But,anyway, I think that all the characters in the movie are, obviously, a bit different from Cooper's book ones.
|
report to moderator  |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 12 2002 : 8:01:44 PM
|
| yea, i agree...i thought she'd be a little prettier, too...(no offence to JM, of course) |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
sidony
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 21 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 14 2002 : 8:24:20 PM
|
| Ithiliana, I thought JM looked quite beautiful in the cliff scene when there was a slow motion closeup of her face. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Mylene
Pathfinder
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 16 2002 : 12:31:02 AM
|
| I never read the book, so I just know what I saw from the movie, but I think for her status, the picture I percieved of Alice was one of an unsure, timid young "girl" who seemed thin and underweight, which is probably not the image Mann wanted to get across =\ |
Silence is golden...but shouting is fun! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Vixen
Colonial Settler
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 16 2002 : 12:33:08 AM
|
| I'd probably saw that Alice looked alright...i've never read the book (im half way through deerslayer, so im getting there) but id probably say that if I had to chose the one time when she looked...almost, independent was at the cliff scene, she sort of "grew up"in a way, and she also looked prettiest there too. |
"What are they doing to Duncan?!?"
-Cora Munro |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 22 2002 : 5:55:55 PM
|
| yea, i agree....if i had to pic her best scene, it was her close-up on the cliff...she was stunning there....but otherwise, she wasn't much to look at....cora wasnt really very pretty, either, but she had that vitality and that aliveness [im sure thats not a word, but who cares] |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Vixen
Colonial Settler
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 22 2002 : 6:12:26 PM
|
| I know, but wasnt' Cora supposed to be the less pretty one anyway, and then Alice was the pretty one, or did they switch that around too? |
"What are they doing to Duncan?!?"
-Cora Munro |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 22 2002 : 8:18:06 PM
|
| nooooo...they were the same in prettiness, but cora was literally "darker"...darker, skin, hair, etc...but their beauty was equal. |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
sidony
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 21 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 22 2002 : 10:06:23 PM
|
| Ithiliana, I'm in shock that you don't think that MS was pretty!:) She was BEAUTIFUL in LOTM. Actually, I don't think she ever looked more beautiful in another film! And those wonderfully expressive eyes made her even more gorgeous, especially in the love scene... |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Diane B.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 23 2002 : 08:25:31 AM
|
I agree with you, Sidony: Madeleine Stowe was absolutely beautiful in LOTM! Her portrayal of Cora was wonderful & her eyes & facial epxressions brought a wide range of emotion to the role. I first noticed this in the scene when Duncan is trying to convince her that marrying him would be a good idea & says to her, in part, "Why not let those who care for you - your father - help decide what's best for you? In light of your indecision you should rely on their judgement - and mine." Cora gives a quick half-smile, diverts her gaze from Duncan & looks down for a moment; it almost looks like she's trying to keep herself from laughing out loud at what she has just heard! And then Duncan tells her to "Please consider that." Cora immediately looks straight at Duncan & without saying a word, her eyes & facial expression are clearly saying, "Who do you think you are? How dare you suggest such a thing!" Duncan obviously picks up on the fact that he's crossed some line with her because he reconsiders what he has just said, softens his tone a bit & then asks Cora to "Please consider that." You can see Cora's expression immediately soften & she is no longer looking at Duncan with fire in her eyes...
I also love her facial expressions during the burial ground scene in the glade with Hawkeye. As he begins explaining to her why the Camerons came to the frontier ("Out here they're beholden to none, not livin' by another's leave"), Cora's eyes widen and she has a look of wonder on her face, as she begins to grasp an idea of a kind of freedom and a way of life that is totally foreign to her.
Another example occurs during her scene in the surgery with Hawkeye. Cora asks, "What are you looking at, sir?" When he responds, "I'm looking at you, Miss" she again uses her eyes and and facial expressions to display an incredible range of emotions, without saying another word.
As for "The Kiss," what a love scene!   I can watch that scene over & over again (and I have!) and I never tire of it. DD-L and Madeleine truly make you "feel" the raw emotion in that scene & once again, it is done without one word being spoken - everything is conveyed with expressions and some of the best acting you'll ever see.
Yet another example is "Under the Falls," as Cora & Hawkeye look at each other just before he makes his leap through the falls to follow Uncas & Chingachcook - and then, the look on Cora's face as she turns away from the falls, after he's gone...
Whether or not Madeleine was nominated for an Oscar for this performance, she was certainly deserving of one - as were many others in this film! But, that's another topic & another thread...!
|
Rattlesnake Woman
"The earth does not belong to us; we belong to the earth." - Chief Seattle
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 23 2002 : 12:52:54 PM
|
| i think that MS looked the best in the picnic/tea scene, when her and duncan were discussing what a good basis for marriage is. after that she got disheveled, and, quite opposite from JM, she doesnt look good [in my opinion] in a torn dress with her hair all over. i, however, admire her acting talent...i mean...the #! think and actor must have is talent, not good looks. |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
sidony
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 21 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 27 2002 : 9:42:32 PM
|
Diane B, I agree with your assessment of MS' acting in those scenes. Some other scenes I thought she was fabulous in were:
When Alice and Cora are captured by Magua in the cave, Cora holds her sister and stares straight at Magua with such a proud and indomitable expression that made me think :yep, that's the essence of Cora!
I also love her forcefulness when she says "They do NOT live their lives by your leave. They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, burrying their children on the way" and when she challenges her father with "It is not sedition and if it is sedition then I'm guilty of sedition too". Duncan and her father look rather stunned by her fierceness, and so they should!:)
The first couple of times I saw LOTM, I thought she was surprisingly good, but I was too distracted by DDL to realize how perfect she was in the role.:) Now I can't think of another actress, past or present, who could have done more justice to Cora.
As for the "The Kiss", I think all the current directors should be made to watch that scene to see how a love scene SHOULD be filmed! Especially the directors of so-called romantic movies. MM is really an incredible director. How many other directors can film a love scene AND a battle scene with the same magnificent aplomb?
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
morgaine
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 27 2002 : 10:34:16 PM
|
I agree emphatically with Diane B. and sidony. Madeleine Stowe was absolutely beautiful in our movie. As Cora, she is one of the most exceptional film heroines. It does not matter if she is dressed as 18th century gentry or "disheveled" and caught in a life or death situation. I love the burial ground scene when Hawkeye recounts the Indian legend to her and, of course, the kiss. I LOVE "THE KISS"! I also love the scene when Cora has a private moment with Hawkeye in his cell before the fort is evacuated.
I also think that as the story progresses, one can notice that her "disheveled" hair and Daniel's match. They match. Cora has become part of his world, united with him in love. She has left London, etc. behind. She understands America and freedom.
(With reference to the poll: I would STILL like to be Cora!) |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ellie
Pioneer
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 22 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - November 29 2002 : 09:16:55 AM
|
| Madeleine Stowe is/was wonderful as Cora, she is such an incredible beauty and she has such a graceful air about her. Her dignified performance was undderated compared to the exposure a lot of 'over actors' get these days. In all her films she shows such an understanding to the story and to the character. She understands her craft and she uses the most important tool to perfection - the eyes. Some of the looks she gives in LOTM are breathtaking. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - November 30 2002 : 11:14:51 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by sidony
As for the "The Kiss", I think all the current directors should be made to watch that scene to see how a love scene SHOULD be filmed! Especially the directors of so-called romantic movies. MM is really an incredible director. How many other directors can film a love scene AND a battle scene with the same magnificent aplomb?
Sums it up poifectly!! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
sidony
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 21 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 01 2002 : 8:23:24 PM
|
Hi Morgaine. I like your interpretation of Cora's changing hairstyle over the course of the film. The great thing about this messageboard is that you and other posters make me see certain aspects of the film in a different way.
Incidentally, this thread appears to have mutated into a MS appreciation society...not that there's anything wrong with that!:) |
| report to moderator |
|
|
morgaine
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 01 2002 : 8:40:36 PM
|
Hi, Sidony. Yes, I agree that this has become a Madeleine Stowe appreciation society and I love it. I love reading everyone's points of view and think it is wonderful that LOTM is so important to so many people. This website and the people here are amazing.
Yes, I just kept noticing (EVERY time I watch the movie!) that Cora and Hawkeye "match" more and more as the film progresses. Destined to be together! Once upon a time, I thought there were other movies that I considered "most romantic". AFter LOTM, the others paled in comparison. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 02 2002 : 10:51:14 AM
|
| Speaking of Cora and Hawkeye's hair matching: Was DD-L's hair in the movie his own, or was he wearing a wig? I honestly cannot tell... and I am an ex-hairdresser! LOL! If it was a wig, it was _very_ well done. Anyone know? |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ellie
Pioneer
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 22 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 02 2002 : 11:42:08 AM
|
| I think it was his real hair, I remember seeing press pictures of him with long hair. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - December 02 2002 : 1:43:57 PM
|
| It was real hair, EXCEPT for the re-shot segment - done nearly a year later. That was extensions ... And, if you don't know, it was the brief scene, at Chimney Rock Park, where Cora & Hawkeye embrace just after Magua is killed. You can see the difference if you're paying attention. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 02 2002 : 3:16:25 PM
|
| Thanks. I will have to look closely at that last scene the next time I watch the movie. By the way, why did they have to redo that scene so much later? Was it because of the change in the script...so much of Russell Means' speech taken out? |
| report to moderator |
|
|
richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - December 03 2002 : 06:04:27 AM
|
Oooops ... I must not have been clear on this. It's not the last scene - where Chingachgook speaks of the changing times - that was filmed in October, '91 & was edited for the DVD with restored footage. It's the scene right before that ...
Magua's head hits the turf, the scene then switches to a rock-face background. Cora & Hawkeye embrace, then walk off. That little piece is what was filmed in August, '92. [it is cut from the DVD]
I remember Michael Mann saying something about it was needed for continuity, or something along those lines. Doesn't seem too critical to me, but they reassembled Madeleine Stowe, Daniel Day-Lewis, & a crew, shut down the trail at CRP, and did it, less than 2 months before the film was released!
The Chingachgook "speech" scene, btw, was filmed at Table Rock - as all Mohican Gatherers well know! ... at The Chimneys ... |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 03 2002 : 09:23:03 AM
|
Aaahh! I know which scene you mean now. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of time, trouble, and most of all... money, that movie companies will go to for something that seems so important to them. It is usually some tiny thing that the average movie audience would never notice in million years.
Maybe this should be under another topic, but may I just digress for a moment? The film "Maverick", which starred Mel Gibson, Jodie Foster and James Garner, was partly filmed on the beautiful Columbia River of Oregon and Washington. Any exterior scene where you saw the big paddle-wheeler boat was filmed there. The paddle-wheeler they used was actually a paddle-wheel tugboat, called the "Portland", on which they used their Hollywood money and magic to transform into a glamorous Mississippi steamer. They spent well over a million and a half dollars and many months of labor doing this. My elderly father is a volunteer worker on the "Portland" steamer tug, which spends its normal, everyday existence docked in Portland, as a museum. My children and I were fortunate to be able to visit one day, when the movie crew was there working on it. They were applying real gold leaf to certain parts of the metal exterior... because it shows up better to the camera! I could not believe my eyes! I looked carefully when I saw the movie, and I couldn't see any gold. Then they had to take it all off when they were finished, to completely restore it back to the way it was... just a plain old paddle-wheel tug! Amazing!
Anyway... enough on that. No need to answer... just thought it was interesting.
Ciao. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Vixen
Colonial Settler
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 06 2002 : 4:37:10 PM
|
| I think Cora was great, facial expressions were awesome. When Hawkeye said, "Im looking at you miss" it was just great the way she seemed dignified, flattered, and even a little giddy all at the same time. Two Thumbs Up! |
"What are they doing to Duncan?!?"
-Cora Munro |
| report to moderator |
|
|
morgaine
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 06 2002 : 5:06:59 PM
|
| When Hawkeye said, "I'm looking at you, miss.": I agree with Vixen's description of Cora's reaction. I loved when he said those words--it made me wish that someone would say that to women today. Hawkeye is so MANLY and self-assured. He is courtly and, at the same time, he is the self-reliant man of the frontier. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
Jodhi May doesn't look like Alice
