![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]") |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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 Posted - October 15 2011 : 1:44:01 PM
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Bonjour mon amis! After a bit of helpful prodding from James N., I have hopefully landed in the correct area! Yes, go ahead and say it--I will only concur--About zee com-poot-airs; ah am verry stoopide, no? Reintroductions perhaps being in order--these are my FIRST tentative explorations of this humongo website! So I got a LOT to catch up on! More prodding will be welcomed! I blundered into it because I was an Xtra in "Mohicans"--one of zee wild and crazee Coureur De Bois!(all those years ago...sigh), and, being a state employee who has learned to waste as much time at work as any other self-respecting state employee(my only access to a computer is at work, where I was forced a few years back, at gunpoint, kicking and screaming, to learn-?- how to use one of these contraptions....), I FINALLY thought to look up Mohican's stuff, and VOILA!.....To be continued......
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 15 2011 : 2:11:20 PM
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| .....I have PLENTY of tales to tell from those days, so anybody got any questions, BE AFRAID, be VERY afraid to ask me, as I can ramble on FOREVER on such subjects!......But first, perhaps more of an introduction is in order. My participation as a lowly Xtra in Mohicans began when I was working in Asheville, and saw adds in the local newspaper looking for Xtras, and some friends/acquaintances of mine who "got on" in one capacity or another, encouraged me to "try out". Having read and reread all the Fenimore Cooper Leatherstocking Tales throughout my semi-feral childhood, I had some idea what might be going on(not necessarily any guarantee of that when Hollywood decides to make a book into a film...), so I knew there would be an Indian Village Scene, and having some wolf-hybrids at the time(and being a total animal geek), I thought it would be purty neato to get a couple of them skulking in the background of that scene. So, I set out to visit the local casting ladies, every bit as annoying as any "casting dad" with his children, trying to get them a bit part! Alas, I was unsuccessful regarding my wolf dogs' film career(although I continued trying as long as filming continued--I DID get the head photography guy interested at one point--Eye-talian feller--what's his name?--, but it fizzled...) but the casting ladies wanted ME to be a soldier Xtra--I declined, having already heard horror stories from my buddies about drilling in the summer heat while wearing wool uniforms!! I tried to convince them to let me be an Indian("Put a lot of war paint on me and stick me way in the back!" was my pitch), but this production being WAY politically correct in regards to portrayal of the Native Americans, that was not an option. Although I knew some Mexican guys that lied about their ancestry, and got on anyway. But alas, I was too dang Caucasian-looking to pull that off....They took my name and number, and said they would call if something came up. So I got this call later on--"Do you know what a Coureur de Bois is"--heck yeah I knew what a Coureur de Bouis was, and I readily agreed to portray that! Ends up(in my not-so-humble opinion) it was THE BEST possible Xtra for me to portray--type casting! Although good luck on spotting me in the film! As I tell people,"If you have stop-action on your VCR/DVD, and an Electron Microscope you can mount to your T. V. screen, I can show you where I am!.... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 15 2011 : 3:02:59 PM
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| .....this has become the joke among all my acquaintances(knowing of my association with this movie) as to why I'm virtually invisible in the film--I portrayed the elusive, woods-wise coureur de bois SO WELL, that Director Michael Mann was not SKILLED ENOUGH to capture me on film! Eez zat a tree? Or eez eet a coureur de bois? Eez zat a rock? Or eez eet a coureur de bois? Les coureur de bois are zee MASSTIRZ uv zee KAMOFLOUGE! Oui! Ah am zee GRAYTIST uv awl EENVEEZABULL feelm Coureur de Bois! Because yoo see moi zee leest uv awl!..... |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 24 2007
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Posted - October 15 2011 : 3:13:01 PM
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Lane,
Glad to see you found the "right" place! Like you, I "happened across" this fascinating site while "web surfing" and saw a picture of Madeline Stowe and Jodhi May that led me here. You're remembering Dante Spinotti, I believe; he was the cinematographer for Mann. I remember him wearing a "fright wig" having been dragooned by Mann to be the French priest in the scene inside Montcalm's tent. ( I was there as an officer at the dinner table. ) If you think about it, the MEXICANS weren't so out-of-place as you say, since Mexicans are usually part or mostly Indian. ( As long as they AREN'T speaking Spanish! ) I was also commander of Montcalm's Honor Guard in the scene of the British marching out of the fort - were you there? Tell us specifically what parts or scenes you got to work on and which if any of the actors you saw "up close and personal". ( And if you happen to have any photos from then you'd like to TRY to post, I'll attempt to tell you HOW, having FINALLY mastered that myself! ) |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 09:10:35 AM
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| Oh my, James N., what a torrent of tales you may have just released!.....Yup, that's the Eye-talian "director of photography" I spoke to--Dante Spinotti--you know yer stuff on this, don't you??!! Apparently there had been another head photography guy, but he got fired due to difficulties with(ahem!) you-know-who. Maybe just another one of those (many many) set rumors? As mentioned, I had been trying to slip my wolf-dogs in the background of the Indian village scene(the village built way up on top of a ridge down at Chimney Rock). I'm just kinda weird that way, trying to get critters involved with ANYTHING I participate in--I actually DID get some other dogs on a T. V. series I worked on later! Since I had no luck getting the casting people interested(who basically told me if it wasn't the Director's original idea, to forget it), and since my point blank DARING to speak face-to-face with Director Michael Mann one day got no perceptible human response(we were both walking back from the commisary tents--very SEGREGATED commisary tents, I might add, so it was quite coincidental that our paths crossed--no one else was around--a RARE occurence--so I wasn't exactly interrupting anything; and I introduced myself--no response except a hostile stare--and enthusiastically mentioned my wolf- dogs and how I'd love to let him use them as background interest--and accuracy--in the upcoming Indian Village scene--but all he did was give a barely perceptable grunt, and moved on, as if I did not exist. Visions of Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby flashed through my mind--but I restrained myself. That didn't do Brer rabbit any good either, I remembered....),but being something of a stubborn cuss, I drove to Chimney Rock when they were filming and had 2 of my wolf-dogs on leash, and just walked them up there and hung out all day! I had a Zebra-Striped pick-up truck at the time, and parked it right in the VIP section like I was supposed to be there or something--that dang zebra truck(homemade paint job, and purty darn good, if I say so meeself!)--I could park that ANYWHERE and nobody EVER questioned it! I mean, it just HAD to be someone legit, with a weird-arse vehicle like that, right? That's where Dante(VERY FRIENDLY and enthusiastic guy!) saw them, and IMMEDIATELY blurted, "I VANT THOSE DOGS! I VANT THOSE DOGS IN THE VILLAGE!" Well awright, I thought! We're gittin' somewhere! I watched him talking to Monsewer Le Director--no reponse much from him. Dante told me he'd get back with me on it--he never did. I waited around all day--which I didn't mind, as it was kinda an excuse to get to visit the Indian Village set anyway, which I wanted to see, and we(me and my dogs) had a blast visiting with everyone else--EVERYONE(except Mister Mann, of course), wanted to come up and pet and play with my wolf-dogs, which were, luckily, VERY well-socialized and obedience trained, and loved human interaction. One of them did(oops!) poop right in the middle of the main village street--I quickly dug a hole with my heel, kicked it in and covered it back up and hoped like heck Mr. Lewis or Ms. Stowe didn't step in it later! I waited around till dark--no response from the powers-that-be, so I FINALLY gave up and headed back down the mountain--guess who I passed going down? Yup, za Furher himself! He didn't deign to notice us, so I realized once and for all I was wasting my time with him--but I had had a GREAT day visiting with folks! And watching the scenes being filmed! Too cool! Can't say Mister Mann didn't have numerous opportunities to think on my (small but interesting)potential addition--he was SUCH a stickler in other matters regarding visual accuracy, props, and costuming! But perhaps I DID influence him slightly--in the final movie scene, you can here DOGS BARKING in the background--an added sound effect--but there were NO DOGS on the set other than my brief visit(and my guys did not bark while there, either). So, maybe I dare to take credit for at least influencing the sound effects in that tiny, tiny way? I'm not expecting an award or anything, of course....... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 09:34:59 AM
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| ....and as to what scenes I actually WAS in--I was at most of the "seige-of-the-fort", and yes, the surrender and evacuation scenes, as well as the "massacre valley" scene--boy-howdy, was I EVER glad I was on the French/Indian side there! It nearly WAS a massacre at times! And I have LOTS of stories from each area(from the unique perspective of zee eenveezabull Coureur de Bois!). So I'll start pecking them out(certainly no "TYPING" going on here--I wear my right index finger OUT telling tales like this, on such a contraption! But such fun sharing them with folks--especially someone else who was THERE and can REALLY appreciate them! Even if they are somewhat different from their own experiences!)....yeah, the Mexicans at least LOOKED more Native American--I am actually part myself--my ma's side are classic Scotch-Irish-Cherokee from North Georgia, and my Pa's side is French-German-Swedish Texas settlers that VEHEMENTLY deny any admixture of Indian(Commanche? Kiowa?--both tribes my early relatives had "relations" with), but verified by another, less prejudiced relative that said they used to visit their relatives on the reservation in Oklahoma all the time--so no telling--but I didn't inherit the Native American phenotype enough to be an Indian Xtra in this movie! But, as a coureur de bois, I DID end up getting to hang out with over 300(?) Native Americans from ALL OVER the U. S. and Canada--not too mention hear speeches by Dennis Banks and see a lot of Russel Means! I just bought both their autobiographies recently. Mr. Banks was SO nice and approachable--a real privelege to visit with him a bit, but Mr. Means--not so much. In fact, he had quite the "avoid-him-at-all-costs" reputation on the set. But after reading his book, I understand a LOT better WHY, now, and can't blame him a bit for the attitude!..... |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 24 2007
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 10:51:28 AM
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Lane,
I loved your memories of both Mann and Spinotti! I have my own, but rather than repeat them here, just click on this link to the section I wrote for on the site: http://www.mohicanpress.com/jim_neels_mohicanland.html I was gone by the time of the filming at Chimney Rock, but there are other stories about it onsite as well. We have quite a bit about Russel Means, including a LONG - and long-winded! - interview: http://www.mohicanpress.com/cast_member_interviews.html ( Just click on the names of each to see all these interviews, including Mann's. )
And I quite agree with you - Means was "preceeded by his reputation" and formidable enough that I avoided him whenever I was close to him, which fortunately wasn't often! But we have virtually NOTHING about Dennis Banks, so more about HIM would be most interesting. ( And I TOO "suffer" from the same typing style as you, so don't let that prevent you from contributing! )
Suggestion: Instead of continuing to "load up" THIS thread, start NEW ones for each different subject - kind of like what you've done here with your 2 entries above. ) Then let other members like me make comments and ask questions about those particular topics and then add your answers to those specific subjects to form a "running" thread or dialog about a particular idea or memory.
Here's another section I think you'd find interesting that's more memories by others like me that worked as extras, etc.: http://www.mohicanpress.com/first_person_accounts.html Reading some of these and the posts here in this forum will probably "jog your memory" about other things you did or saw; almost everything's "fair game" and of interest to members and readers of this site! |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 24 2007
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 11:28:45 AM
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And Lane, it's really too bad about your dogs - the people responsible for "dressing" the sets tried in ways that showed up little-if-at-all to do things "right". Here's an example of an exotic "critter", an Irish wolfhound, that was used ( but unfortunately doesn't show up ) in the scene at "Albany":
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 12:39:43 PM
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| Wow, James, all those links are going to take me AWHILE to read through--but I will, and I will enjoy every minute! And I will try to divide up my stories by subject as you suggested--I can get to rambling, though, and I am easily sidetracked! If you haven't already figured that out! And yes, my memory probably does need some jogging--it's been awhile! So far, I haven't seen anything from the "Coureur de Bois'" perspective on this website(?), so my stories might be a welcome new addition to the collection! Of which I will be happy and proud to contribute. But since I've already explained a bit about my wolf-dogs' non-involvement(although my attempts is what actually got ME involved in other ways)--a few more comments on that and animal bits. Though they may be seemingly insignificant, even the briefest blip of an animal in a scene can speak volumes in portraying a mood or depicting a specific time or place. Michael Mann did this in "Mohicans", if you will remember, with that briefest of glimpses of a "panther"(cougar, puma, mountain lion, catamount, er whatever you prefer to call them) when the girls were first entering the wilderness on horseback--what better way to introduce and symbolize the very spirit of the wilderness than that lurking cat? Everything wild and unpredictable, potentially dangerous and beautiful and savage all in a glance! So Director Mann DID understand that(and contradictory as my--ahem--views might seem in speaking of my personal encounters and observations of Mr. Mann, I'll still readily admit he made a DARN GOOD movie here! And give credit where credit is due! No matter how rudely, impolitely, or disrespectfully it was done!). And all the scenes with livestock from the fort, the Bluetick Hound outside the settlers' cabin--there were all kinds of neat little accurate bits that added to the authenticity and interest in the backgrounds. It IS too bad my wolf-dogs couldn't have been skulking about in the Indian Village scene--they would have been every bit as representative of the Native culture as the costuming and face paint. And as anyone in Hollywood knows, everyone notices animals, which is why some actors don't want them in their scenes, as the focus is taken away from them! Of course being a total animal geek, I focus more on them than yer average bloke, nevertheless, they still have a noticeable impact on most viewers. The Irish Wolfhound photo is great! I had no idea one was ever on the set, or might have been used! What a shame it wasn't--there was a purty artsy symbolic message of conflict and culture clashes right there! The wolfhound with the English, and the part-wolf dogs of the Indians! Plus the Bluetick subsistence-hunting hound of the backwoods settlers--all accurately describing the different cultures with living canine illustrations! ....And it's funny you showed that Wolfhound--one of the dogs I got used in that T. V. series I mentioned was a closely related Scottish Deerhound! |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 12:58:54 PM
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| ...and since we're speaking of critter-use in the movie--one of those "memory jogs" just occurred! Probably my favorite of ALL the scenes is at the beginning, where Hawkeye and Chingachgook and Uncas are pursuing the Elk through the mountain forest--I can really relate to that, as that was what I and my wolf-dogs did all the time for real! Although we were pursuing Whitetail Deer, not Elk! Elk HAVE been reintroduced in the Smokies, by the way, as of 2001, and are doing well--so far mostly just in the Great Smokies National Park(I TOLD you I was easily sidetracked!). Anyway, I heard when they were filming that scene, Mr. Mann wanted to get a perspective from the Elk's point-of-view--LITERALLY! So a camera was mounted on the Elk's head between his antlers! Of course any of the local fellers coulda told him that weren't sich a good idee, which it weren't......The Elk stood there a moment, and then simply swung his head against something and smashed the VERY expensive camera! Another set rumor? The people I heard it from talked like they had been there and observed the incident themselves. Interesting story, whatever.... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 1:24:54 PM
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| ....and dangit, I DO have some neat photos, but alas, ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how to post them--and with this work computer, very little likelyhood even IF I knew how! I know of ONE of my photos that is visible on the internet--here's how to see it. Google my name(hey, don't be embarrassed--we ALL do it!), and click on the Erbzine/Tarzan /Jane Goodall interview I did for that magazine. They wanted some photos--I had to send them some by old fashioned pony express--and I reckon they "scanned" them and put them in the article(a paper version of this newsletter, too). I think it is at the very bottom of the interview--a pic of me and some of my coureur de bois comrades during the seige of the fort--I'm the feller on the left with the turban(I think--or is it on the right? I think they say which on the caption under the photo). And the whole thing about picture taking on the set is funny--there were signs posted all over the place FORBIDDING any private picture taking, so of course EVERYONE had cameras concealed in their costumes and props, and were taking photos right and left! Ha! |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - October 16 2011 : 8:01:12 PM
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Jou meen thees wan?
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Or maybee eet's wan of thees??
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 10:05:20 AM
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| Sacre' bleu! Moi ideenteetee haz bean exposaid!! How'd you do that James? Computers--frustrating, but also amazing critters! Yes, that first photo is of me on the set during the seige--I'm the sneering feller on the left with the turban--that turban has helped me locate myself in the many mass body massacre scenes where I am SLIGHTLY and only seconds-visible--IF you know where to look! Ha! On the right is Eric "Freedom" Sandgren, the HEAD Coureur De Bois(perhaps because he was the ONLY Coureur De Bois that had a spoken line?). Anyway, he was supposed to be our "leader", but if you knew what a free-spirit Eric was/is, then you could quickly understand why the coureur de bois were all so ...ah..."peripeheral" during all the filming! I remember Michael Mann SCREAMING in frustration one day,"Where are the !@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@!!! COUREUR DE BOIS!!!" We were all napping up in the cool shade in the woods--rude man; he woke us up! We all just looked at one another, and rather like independent-natured, spirited dogs, we weren't ABOUT to respond to THAT negative screaming! You want a dog like that to come to you, you call it in a KINDLY fashion, no matter how frustrated you might be! We just went back to sleep and waited for his temper to blow over(which, with all he had on his plate, usually did in a few minutes or so). Consequently, the coureur de bois didn't end up in the film very much!......The 2nd photo is me with a couple of wolves at the Western N. C. Nature Center--I got to go in and play with them because I knew the people from Wolf Park in Indiana that donated them, and they regularly visited and continued to try and keep these wolves socialized for ease of care--but these were not the wolf dog crosses I tried to get on "Mohicans".....and the last is a couple of baby raccoons(named "Racket" and Wreck-it") I raised that had been abandoned by their mother at a construction site I worked on--I had them a couple of years and eventually reintroduced them back to the wild..... |
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lane batot
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USA
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 10:17:52 AM
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| ....I rewatched the movie on my days off--it's been awhile! Man, the memories.... I had bought a cheapo Wal-Mart copy(the cashier said when I bought it; "this is a really good movie!", and I couldn't resist and replied, "Yeah, I know; I was IN it!"--she looked at me like I was crazy....), and hadn't actually watched it(still in the plastic) since my defunct VCR tape expired some years back--but I thought I oughta to better respond on this message board! I was suprised, but several things seemed either cut out or added from the copy I previously had, and the original theatre showing(movie premiere in Asheville, N. C.!)--correct me somebody if I'm just getting old and forgetful. But the Clannad song WAS NOT played during the heroes' pursuit, as I remember it(music copyright problem?), some of the Indian village scene I DISTINCTLY remember was cut(including the brief "dog barking" I just mentioned in this thread!), and more was added on Chingachgook's speech at the end that I don't remember at all. I reckon some of you die-hard fans might set me straight on that if I'm mistaken....... |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 11:40:26 AM
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Lane,
Glad you liked the "magic"; did you notice I also slightly "improved" the color, restoring some of the brown/red tint from your faded original? ( Unfortunately, I wasn't able to enlarge it without making it blurry, so had to leave it the same size. ) Your questions about content of the DVD vs. the VHS have been extensively discussed here in this part of the Forum before; briefly, there are significant differences in every new version released, with scenes added and deleted. I like the DVD best because it includes the scenes of "Heyward's Sortie" - and is the only version I actually show up in! If you'll notice, this part of the Forum is on page #26, so there's LOTS of information and discussions here about various aspects of the film! |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 4:04:07 PM
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| Wow....amazing what some people can do on computers! I did manage to go back and look at some of the old threads on the subject of various differences between DVD and VHS versions--so my questions were answered! Looks like I wasn't getting senile(yet) after all! The DVD is WAY better for extremely, elusively obscure Xtras such as myself to try and find themselves, that's for sure! When rewatching the movie this past weekend, I actually found myself in a coupla spots I hadn't seen before! Steel, mon ami, zee eelooseev coureur de bois eez most difficile to capptyoor on zee feelm! Ownlee zee breefist uv zee gleempses! And poof! Eenveezabull ahgain! |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
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Posted - October 19 2011 : 4:22:22 PM
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| .....and speaking of photos, I wish I could somehow(someday?) share one with you-all that I took of "savages-attacking-water- girl"--it is the funniest, I think, in my collection! As many of you may well know(or remember if you were there!), the Seige of the Fort, during the daylight hours, was a MISERABLY hot business--the sun beating down on the completely denuded hillside, burned over until the ground itself was black soot, which concentrated the heat all the more! We were not supposed to have ANYTHING on our persons not assigned by costumers--sticklers fer accuracy these guys were, fer shore! To relieve our extreme, constant thirst, a water girl came around between takes with a big cooler to dispense water to us peons, and we were only supposed to get ONE teenie little paper dixie cup at one time--not enough to even dampen our parched throats! Anyway, as you might imagine, the poor water girl got MOBBED as if by thirst-starved livestock every time she made an appearance--and I got a great photo of all the Indians surrounding her with desperately outstretched little dixie cups! Like something out of a Monty Python skit! Most of us quickly revolted against the rules, and smuggled in our own canteens, which we kept concealed under our coats, in our leggings, or under our breech-cloths! Or, as mentioned earlier, slipped off to the far-off treeline to nap for awhile in the shade! |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - October 20 2011 : 2:09:14 PM
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| Wow, James! Just got through reading of your experiences in the link you sent--VERY interesting! Also VERY different in many ways from my experiences--yet we came to very similar conclusions regarding numerous aspects and people we each encountered! I should probably clarify a bit more how I was able to join in the meelee known as "Mohicans", and my own accomodations throughout.....At the time, I was hired as a "handyman" on an estate of a wealthy family in Asheville--I was the gardener/landscaper, pet caretaker, maid(these guys had more bathrooms than I've EVER seen in one structure!), construction engineer, painter(there was ALWAYS LOTS of painting on this place!), butler and doorman, supply-fetcher(as in groceries or building supplies)--whatever the boss's came up with! Crazy as it could be at times(very wealthy people raised in great monetary wealth can be...let's just say...VERY eccentric at times!), it was a VERY cush job that paid well(as far as menial labor around Asheville was concerned), and I was treated quite well, for the most part. As luck would have it, the owner I worked for decided to visit relatives in California just as "Mohicans" was beginning to film. My duties were just to keep an eye on the place and feed the dogs--otherwise I was totally free--I had discussed this with the owner, and they were THRILLED I was "working" on the movie set, and understood I'd be coming and going at odd hours checking on the estate, and were fine with it. I closed up my little ramshackle cabin just across the line in Tennessee where I lived(located on the very spot where the first known white settler lived in the area--a FRENCH trapper who traded with the local Indians, right on the FRENCH BROAD RIVER(as distinguished in those days from the ENGLISH BROAD RIVER--now just called the Broad River)--perhaps he was with me in spirit as a Coureur de Bois in "Mohicans"? Anyway, my wealthy employer had a SUPERB large fenced compound where I could keep all my dogs(including 4 wolf-hybrids at the time, some Siberian Huskies, and a Catahoula), which they were all used to as they already went to work with me most every day! Being able to have my dogs with me constantly was WAY better than a pay raise to me, as an employee! This really simplified things during my time on the "Mohican's" sets--all I had to do was zip back once every 24 hours and make sure the dogs were fed, and that everything was okay otherwise, then I could zip back to wherever we were filming. As mentioned, we coureur de bois were notoriously peripheral and undependable anyway, so I always managed this quite easily. remembering also I could park that zebra truck ANYWHERE--making it easy to slip off when filming was going on in the boonies. Therefore I was being paid my regular salary as an estate-sitter, as well as my BIG BUX as a Hollywood Xtra! We got, I think, $50 bux a day--which I think at the time, was one of the highest rates for Xtras. This was white-boy pay--the injuns got more(even BEFORE the strike)--but I had no problems or resentments about that--I think they well deserved it! We local white boys were a dime-a-dozen as to availability, whereas the Indians had been part of an ENORMOUS casting call all across the U. S. and Canada, and were not so easily replaceable, which stood them in great stead during the later strike.....This was my FIRST ever movie-making experience--I drifted about starry-eyed most of the time--amazed and fascinated! I must have made an enormous nuisance of myself at times! And though I had a blast, I think it was ONLY because of my very peripheral, fly-on-the-wall position as an uncontrollable coureur de bois--I would have been MISERABLE in any other capacity, and doubt I would have hung around as long as I did. I saw enough to decide this was also MY LAST ever movie experience--the rudeness and lack of respect I saw done to others really got my hackles up at times--no excuse for it, either, in my opinion. Luckily, the WONDERFUL casting ladies Shirley Crumley and Teresa Phillips greatly encouraged me to work on other local projects, which I eventually did at their insistence, and found out how wonderful and different other film projects were from "Mohicans". I always found it enormously, ludricously ironic that the movie "Mohicans" had all these pretty, impassioned speeches throughout about class prejudice and tyranny, when the actual filming process was the greatest example of modern despotism I have ever witnessed!...... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 20 2011 : 2:20:23 PM
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| ....and I stayed in no motels during the filming--sometimes I could return to the estate where I worked for a quick nap, but mostly I slept in my truck, or the head coureur de bois(Eric S.'s) incredibly decorated old van, or somewhere on the sets we were working on--in costume most of the time! Or up in the woods out of sight from everyone else, as mentioned before! That costume got purty "crispy" before all was said and done! But hey, we were just practicing "method acting"! If it was good enough for the Star Daniel-Day Lewis, it was good enough for zee coureur de bois! And then there were the MEALS dolled out to us mass of Xtras...... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 20 2011 : 5:00:22 PM
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| ....ahhh, the commisary food for the Xtras! I have been perusing various interviews and comments by others on this INCREDIBLE tribute to this amazing movie experience, and most do not have much good to say about the food. I haven't found(yet!?) any mention of the Xtra theory about one aspect of the food, so for posterity sake, I reckon I'll submit it here--but first, let me say I didn't find the food fer us Xtras that bad--in fact, I rather liked it! It WAS NOT ANYTHING like what the Stars and other VIP's were getting by far(I KNOW, because I snuck around their tents and CHECKED--man-oh-man, were they getting some gourmet delights!)--but after living in Africa briefly some years before I participated in this film, my standards as to what was edible had changed considerably! I am not NEAR as picky an eater as I was before Africa! So to me, the food was fine--I ate a LOT, and was never hungry. But perhaps BECAUSE I ate a lot, I may have been more affected by what some of us began to suspicion.....Imagine if you will HUNDREDS of peon Xtras used during filming--we all just AREN'T going to have bowel movements in an organized and convienant manner, of course--UNLESS you tamper with the food and introduce an element to curtail constant natural functioning! One day, in my usual effort to rally the peasants(and get a laugh or two), during one of the meals in the Xtra tent at the Massacre Valley filming, I dramatically stood up on my chair, got everyones' attention(mostly Indians and soldiers) and in my best outrageous French accent, demanded to know if everyone else felt like they were birthing triplets when they (rarely) visited the Porta-Johns! I got a rousing ovation, and LOTS of commiserating from other such afflicted souls. It was later rumored that salt-peter(and old military trick) was added to the food to(ahem!) eliminate so much elimination! Set rumor? I cannot verify, but I know I was more horribly constipated during that filming than I ever have been, before or since--the old memory still makes me shudder! After suspicions were aroused, I did cut back on my consumption of set dolled rations....... |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 09:01:32 AM
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| ....I suppose, however, that even on this voluminous website, there is such a thing as TOO MUCH information, so I will apologize now to anyone offended by such crude reminiscences--do remember, though, that all of us coureur de bois were rather into crude humor(ca-ca comedy, perhaps?), so I am only accurately recording the image we presented while on set--perhaps yet another reason we are not much represented in the final film?.....Perhaps I should also clarify how many of us coureur de bois there were during the filmmaking. Unlike the soldiers(French or English) or Indian Xtras, our numbers fluctuated DAILY. This was due to almost no one giving us direction of any sort as to what we'd be doing or exactly where we were supposed to be(unlike the Indians, who were kept in thumbscrews most of the time by some authority figure, or the wretched soldiers who were actually being drilled and marched about like real soldiers!), so we just kind of drifted about and had free reign to come and go--I think THE ONLY faction on this movie set with such a status(or lack thereof), which is why I say it was THE BEST Xtra to be on "Mohicans"!! On top of that, we coureur de bois were all rather flippant and disdainful purty quickly of the whole business--very typecast!(the original coureur de bois often being described as less tractable than the Indians of the time!) So often during really boring stretches, various coureur de bois simply left, never to return! At most, ever, I think there were never more than 15 or perhaps 20 of us. More often there were only 3 or 4. Once I was involved, I stayed(if sometimes out of sight, but SOMEWHERE nearby....) during the entire time of the fort seige, surrender, and then Massacre Valley(where we coureur de bois were the most organized and utilized during the filming--we trained extensively--those of us that stayed about--with the Indians for the massacre--but unlike the poor soldiers, we all had a BLAST doing it--that should be a subject for another LOOOONG post one day, definetely!). Though I very quickly came to the conclusion that any idea involving a Hollywood career was most definetely NOT for me, I was fascinated enough, and in the perfect position to observe, and get the most that I could from this adventure that had presented itself in my territory--I figured it would not happen again in my lifetime.... Something that might confuse the discriminating fan regarding us coureur de bois should be clarified--we were NOT the same as the "couriers"--those poor wretches sent with messages as runners from one fort to another! In fact, the coureur de bois shot at the couriers! The similarity of terms confused the heck out of production people during filming, as well...... |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 11:40:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lane batot
I did manage to go back and look at some of the old threads on the subject of various differences between DVD and VHS versions--so my questions were answered... The DVD is WAY better for extremely, elusively obscure Xtras such as myself to try and find themselves, that's for sure! When rewatching the movie this past weekend, I actually found myself in a coupla spots I hadn't seen before!
Lane,
I'm glad senility hasn't set in for you quite yet! Look at my topic here Nineteen Years Ago - The Finished Product! to see how I was able to "isolate" those film moments of myself; in the finished film I'm *almost* as "EENVEEZABLE" as you are! I meant to mention that there are TWO pages ( 6 "chapters" ) to my account - the link's at the bottom of the first page; and that if you "click" on the small photos they will enlarge, like many of the other photos here on the Forum do. And speaking of photos - yes, you will somehow have to find a way to SCAN yours into the computer you use; I would think the folks at the zoo's communications center/office could help you figure that out. Posting them here is something I had trouble with, but it's NOT impossible by any means. To reproduce yours, I first "copied" them from your interview, then edited and "improved" the color of the one, and posted them here.
Yes, I'm sorry to say we seem to have arrived at similar opinions of the "uppity-ups" in the production ( you seem not to have had much contact with Michael Waxman though - lucky you! ), and also kind words for the subordinate "grunts" who bore most of their ire while maintaining a professional attitude towards us. And I'm both sorry and surprised at the lack of comments on your very interesting posts ( to ME at least! ) here on the Forum by other members than myself - I suppose the membership/readership has fallen off drastically from what is was only a very few years ago: Fitzhugh Williams, Monadnock Guide, and Wilderness Woman are about the only ones I see online anymore with any "regularity"; even our Sachem, richfed is an infrequent visitor!
For your own enjoyment, I recommend reading the very long and sometimes rambling interview with Eric Hurley and the article by Mark Baker in the "First Person Accounts" link above - they really had some interesting "up close and personal" experiences with members of the cast and crew! ( And notice, too, that they are each several "pages" long! ) I think it's also about time for you to start making new threads here; and look over under your name: you're now a Pathfinder instead of being Lost in the Woods. These are terms reflecting the number of posts you have made here; mine as Colonial Settler isn't one I picked for myself, it's just an indication ( along with the number of stars ) of how active I've been overall. Please continue with your stories! |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 1:00:32 PM
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| Howdy there, James! Yeah, I guess everbodie is jest busy elsewhere(at least I hope! I HAVE noticed in person when I start telling my tales, some people do roll their eyes like "uh-oh; here he goes again!") And I have been reading the first person accounts and the "musings" sections(and LOVING them!)--I think I've finished yours and the 1st soldier account so far.....And of the interviews I knocked out Michael Mann's and Madeline Stowe's--boy, did those give me more fodder for future posts! And GOSH, WHAT an amazing website! Sorry I didn't blunder into it long ago! But I'll ketch up eventually.....and Yeah, I'm SURE our zoo's entire department devoted to computer staff could help me "scan" stuff, IF I wanted to git in trouble! I'm sure that WOULD NOT be approved, if I couldn't somehow make it zoo business! If anyone out there is interested to go to the trouble, I wouldn't mind digging up my old photos and sending copies of them "pony express" and let THEM scan the photos for posterity--I have a few good ones.....And I DID have altercations with that dang!@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@! Waxman feller--who didn't on that movie?! Very little directly(I just ignored him, which rather made him apoplectic!) luckily, but I witnessed one extremely rude and disrespectful incident after another in his interactions with others--had me fingering the haft of my tomahawke regularly(except, darn-it, it was only a rubber tomahawke!). I CHEERED when I read the bit about your drill sargeant(I well remember HIM!) taking mister waxman down a peg or two! Now, with Michael Mann firing people right and left throughout the production, how come mr. waxhead never got whacked? All I can think of is that he sucked-egg and groveled no end to Mr. Mann(which he did, shamelessly!), which kept him in the "barely tolerated zone" by yer highness. But again, I was INCREDIBLY fortunate in that I didn't have to put up with such behaviour directed to myself, being so elusive and peripheral as I was--but I witnessed PLENTY. I have a whole philosophical spiel involving the often disrespectful, but FASCINATING hierarchy I observed--not unlike what was described in the 1st soldier account--keep in mind I was already experienced in observing the social orders of wolves, wild chimps and baboons, among other critters, so social comparisons were always in my mind--but that's for another LOOOONNNNGGGG future post.... And I'll have to relate my impressions and encounters with VIP's on the sets--I had a few as well. And LOTS more on the Indians, including Dennis Banks(since you showed some interest there)--keep in mind all of this IS being squeezed in during breaks and lunchtime at work! So it might be a bit sporadic and will no doubt take AWHILE to git around to everything(but what fun! At least I'M having fun writing/pecking these stories out--I hope others have as much fun reading them!)..... |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 3:35:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by James N.
I suppose the membership/readership has fallen off drastically from what is was only a very few years ago: Fitzhugh Williams, Monadnock Guide, and Wilderness Woman are about the only ones I see online anymore with any "regularity"; even our Sachem, richfed is an infrequent visitor!
Well, there is nothing that I can add to what has been posted!!! But you two keep writing and I will keep reading. The only thing I can add is that the both of you REALLY need to be at the next Gathering! |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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lane batot
Colonial Settler
USA
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October 15 2011
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 4:00:34 PM
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| Howdy Fitzhugh! I think I'd really enjoy the "Gathering"--I heard about it some time ago from local casting lady Theresa Phillips(stilll kicking and working from Mars hill, N. C. and we visit from time-to-time), but just never got around(till now!) to looking it up! She should attend too, or get on this message board--she has quite the repetoire of stories as well(though perhaps not as irreverant as mine!) I HAVE participated in a similar type of gathering, for fans of the T. V. series(and popular novel) "Christy"--a fairly decent series(at least it wasn't another dang "CSI" series!) I worked on, mainly in the capacity of a construction laborer(I was the sets' main hole-digger!)--although I did get a coupla Xtra parts the 2 years they filmed, and did some animal work and greens work as well--it was a GREAT experience! Despite my very low position in that production's hierarchy, the fans just don't care, so long as you were part of it in ANY capacity! I have returned year after year and lectured on one thing or another(yes, even about hole-digging!)--they have branched out to include anything involving Appalachian culture--only so many times you can re-hash old series' episodes! Quite a few of the REAL series' stars and VIP's have attended, and we all have a blast! Before the organization ladies that put the gathering together knew me better, they tentatively asked if I could possibly lecture for a WHOLE hour???? "Is that all yer gonna give me?" I blurted! They know better now, and apologize instead at having to cut me off after an hour or two of rambling and story telling! And they(so far) invite me back every year, so they ain't tired of me yet! They always hold the gathering in Townsende, Tenn., where we filmed the series, with various sidetrips involving Appalachian culture--sounds VERY similar to you-all's gathering! They also have a great website which I have told(pecked-out) many a "behind-the-scenes" story on--not as voluminous as THIS magnificent site, but purty impressive. You want some more entertaining stories about filming, head on over to the "Christyfest" website--most of my tales are on the "T. V. Series" section, and involving the specific episodes--my handle on the site is "Delusional Figment", in honor of my Xtra portrayal as the ghost of Bonnie Prince Charlie(important to one episode). I have some purty funny stories from there, especially about animal handling on the sets. But back to "Mohicans"..... |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - October 21 2011 : 5:07:44 PM
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"I suppose the membership/readership has fallen off drastically from what is was only a very few years ago: Fitzhugh Williams, Monadnock Guide, and Wilderness Woman are about the only ones I see online anymore with any "regularity"; even our Sachem, richfed is an infrequent visitor!"
.
From what I understand James, - most of the "old regulars" are now posting on Face Book, ... tough competition I guess for many sites. |
you can keep "The Change" |
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