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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
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 Posted - November 12 2007 : 10:48:13 AM
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Have you ever wondered what happens to the veritable mountain of material it takes to make something like Mohicans? Of course we know that the large sets like Fort William Henry were dismantled after the filming was over; but what about all the SET PIECES, hand props, guns, uniforms, Alice's dress, Magua's tomahawk, etc., etc.?
Once safely back in the ( then ) 20th century of dreary modern Dallas, I was supremely startled one day to see the "item" in the accompanying photo, sitting forlornly outside a Spagetti Warehouse Italian restaurant in a "trendy/yuppie" part of North Dallas called Addison. I stopped my car to investigate - it was unmistakably one of my former "wards", sitting ignominiously hawking pizza and paninni! Since then, I have also seen one of the equally unmistakable fibreglass canoes hanging in some upscale Dallas mall sportswear shop like Eagle Outfitters, piled high with jeans and flannel shirts!
Last time I looked for it, my ami Francaise had been moved to the parking lot of a large antiques mall. That was about 1999, before I moved to East Texas; I wonder if it's still there!
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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February 14 2006
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Posted - November 12 2007 : 11:37:08 AM
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| They should have a special museum and put all the props used in the movie in there. Something like they have for Dances With Wolves in South Dakota. I was there back in '96 maybe or earlier and was interesting to see the stuff from the movie. Sad to think of the canoes hanging in some clothing store filled with jeans and shirts and that cannon sitting outside a restaurant. Do they even have a plaque explaining what it is? |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
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Posted - November 12 2007 : 12:03:52 PM
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Of course not! I went inside to ask if anyone "knew" what it was , or where they got it; naturally all the college kid types that work in a place like this had no idea about either. When I saw it had been moved, I asked the same questions at the antique mall; all they knew was that for some reason the restaraunt had gotten rid of it! They thought it looked "neat" and bought it - that's all!
I have heard that something like this MAY have wound up at Fort William Henry in Lake George Villiage, N.Y.; or at least some of the uniform/costumes. I can't remember now if I saw anything when I was there in '96 or '97. Anyone else know? |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 12:04:16 AM
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Hmmm . . . I always wonder what happens to all the clothes after a movie is made, especially for period pieces like LOTM or The Man in the Iron Mask (sorry . . . only movie I could think of off-hand with masquerade ball scenes) or even Pride and Prejudice. I'd gladly take some of those dresses off someone's hands.  Always wondered what I'd look like as a Lizzie Bennet or a Colonial Era lady. And they're just so pretty . . . the dresses, I mean. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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July 17 2005
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 08:17:20 AM
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| After "The Patriot" was finished, a lot of things showed up on eBay. I know some folks bought items from the production. A few years later a sutler had some of the uniforms used in the film. They were really bad! Just cobbled together to look good from a distance. BUT, you include a paper saying it was used on the set of "The Patriot" and it would sell. I personally have two cartridge boxes, a sabre, an ink well, and a couple of candle sticks. The cartridge boxes came in handy. The rest gathers dust. Oh, and I have a knife that was said to have been used in LOTM. It is make of leather painted silver with a fake quilled sheath. It was supposed to have been a stunt knife used by the Indians. Maybe it was. Who knows. I bought it for use in fake combat at reenactments and I only paid $10, so no big deal. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 08:35:53 AM
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I was at an event in Winchester Va. after LOTM had wrapped and there were several sutlers there selling cartridge boxes and gear from the movie. Lots of the crap that went on ebay after the Patriot was never used in the movie many of the fake guns and uniforms were just that, fake. Other than being made of man made materials the uniforms that I saw and wore were of good quality construction. Only thing I wanted was a saddle blanket from the Green Dragoons and I've never found one. Historical Enterprises Inc. owned and run by Riley Flynn (reenactor coordinator) had a huge auction of weapons and accuterments that were used in LOTM and The Patriot and several other films after Riley died.
Oh... word came down to us on the Patriot set that all the tents used in LOTM were piled high and burned...was that true?? |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 12:01:41 PM
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| The sutler that had those uniforms was Dirty Billy's Hats. I can't imagine why he would have bought them. He usually doesn't care too much for anything but Civil War, but he had them at Rural Hill the first year they did Cowan's Ford. Last time I saw him, he still had them. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 2:38:08 PM
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| Fitzhugh, the knife sounds like ones we used; the "quillwork" was merely painted vinyl molding. I don't know how or why Riley Flinn would've gotten props or uniforms from Mohicans - he had nothing to do with the production. If what he had was genuine, he must've bought it from some dealer or supplier who got it from the movie. There is currently on eBay a prop cartridge box - it's merely a wooden block painted black and attached to a nylon web strap! They only want $50 for it! These were used in "deep background"; one shows plainly on a reenactor in one of my photos of "Col. Munro" mounted in the Massacre Valley location. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - November 13 2007 : 6:19:34 PM
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quote:
I don't know how or why Riley Flinn would've gotten props or uniforms from Mohicans - he had nothing to do with the production. If what he had was genuine, he must've bought it from some dealer or supplier who got it from the movie.
Yes, Riley acquired lots of props and such from many movies, some that he was not involved with. He would rent them to production companies. Many of the Bess' used in the Patriot wound up in the hands of Mexican soldiers in Billy Bob Thornton's "ALAMO". I had also heard that the Bess' used in LOTM were sold off to a lot of the extras after production wrapped for $100.00 and that they were in pretty sorry condition.
Fitz, Not gonna say anything about Dirty Billy but I saw a lot of the uniforms and none were like what you describe. Maybe he got "taken". |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 12:39:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
Fitz, Not gonna say anything about Dirty Billy but I saw a lot of the uniforms and none were like what you describe. Maybe he got "taken".
If he did, it couldn't have happened to a nicer person |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 10:47:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by James N.
There is currently on eBay a prop cartridge box - it's merely a wooden block painted black and attached to a nylon web strap! They only want $50 for it! These were used in "deep background"; one shows plainly on a reenactor in one of my photos of "Col. Munro" mounted in the Massacre Valley location.
One of the guys in the Regiment (British/Pennsylvania Provincial) I belong to purchased a cartridge box on ebay that was supposedly used in LOTM. I don't know what his documentation is, so it could be, or not.
However, it is a very nice, properly done one. Nothing like what you describe above. In fact, he feels it is so period-correct that he occasionally brings it to events to use. Perhaps, if it truly was a LOTM prop, it was used by one of the actors who had more close camera time? |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 10:49:57 AM
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| James, I am curious... what is that cannon above made of? I assume it is wood, painted to look like iron? |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 11:07:53 AM
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The ones that I have seen, movie cannons, were made from molded fibreglass with a metal sleeve for the inside of the barrel. The carrage was the only truely real thing about them.
That's me on the far right with the worm..
http://news.webshots.com/photo/1020837701029349952fldZBIYNEX?vhost=news
Firing the cannon, two 5 lb bags of "Red Band" flour were loaded to make more "smoke" and give the cannon some recoil.
http://news.webshots.com/photo/1020899238029349952qxmKOGoIYE?vhost=news
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HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 12:49:01 PM
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Not too sure about where all the stuff goes but, like Irish has said, do know there are museums that display items from historical movies and such. Gone With The Wind has one but has also auctioned off some of Scarlet's priceless and unforgettable dresses! Oh, how I sat there drooling over them as their price tags rose out of my budget.
Some of it I would imagine would be sold off for profit. The rest...dunno. Would be super cool to have a museum dedicated to LOTM! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - November 14 2007 : 11:14:49 PM
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| There used to be a little museum a Chiminey Rock with artifacts from the LOTM movie. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - November 15 2007 : 11:37:14 AM
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For Wilderness Woman: If you will look at the photo, you can see that the bore is VERY rusty; that's the only part made of steel/metal. As Hawkeye Joe has said, all the rest is a tough fibreglass; some parts like the dolphins ( handles ) on top are a very tough industrial-type plastic. Cannon carriages and mortar beds were wood, like the originals; but probably not oak like they would've been. This is also how the big "42 pounders" in Battery Wagner were constructed for "Glory"; along with new ones, some of these same guns were used on different wooden carriages for Ted Turner's "Ironclads", about the Monitor & Merrimac ( C.S.S. Virginia ). Once "Glory" was complete, the big guns were sold off, bought mainly by artillery reenactors who then RENTED them to the "Ironclads" production!
Productions like "Gettysburg" that use lots of reenactors tend to use reenactor artillery; which is a mix of original and authentic reproduction guns on repro carriages. On "North and South", one of my friends brought his original 1864 3" ordinance rifle ( cannon ); since it's nicely marked on the muzzle with the date, the film company painted the markings white so they'd be visable and put it up front in a shot of two of the main characters talking beside it! "The Blue and the Gray", with Stacey Keach from the 1980's, used some of the very FAKE fibreglass cannon seen in "Shenandoah" and earlier movies; along with a few reenactor guns. They tended to use the fibreglas ones to BLOW UP (!); and to be towed quickly, like in the retreat from Bull Run. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - November 15 2007 : 6:14:26 PM
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| Those carriages might not have been of oak but they sure weighs a lot. The PA asked us to move that cannon in the photos to a location about 25 yds from where the photos show it firing. We got a $20.00 "bump" in pay for doing grip work. Afterwards she asked us to move it again, when we asked for another bump she told us no, so we said no.. then she "seduced" (she was very smoking hot) four of the guys to move it. They then directed the poor schnooks to tow that heavy bastard over 100 yds to the other location. *LMAO* .. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - November 15 2007 : 8:08:35 PM
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| Hawkeye, that's why the infantry had to pitch in and help with the artillery in the "real" war! The artillery consisted of two categories of soldiers: gunners who did all the technical work of loading, aiming, and firing; and the "matrosses" who were basically mindless muscle. But that was usually not enough, due to the weight of guns and carriages; so soldiers from infantry units were often detailed to help the matrosses man the handspikes, drag lines, etc. This was common until the development of smaller guns on lighter carriages around the time of the Mexican War. That's what gave Taylor and Scott such an edge in Mexico against Santa Anna's old fashioned guns; and incidentally made heroes of artillery officers like T. J. Jackson, Braxton Bragg, John B. Magruder, and Sam'l Ringgold. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - November 15 2007 : 11:48:24 PM
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Don't forget "The Gallant Pelham"...
Fredricksburg... one gun, one Pelham = 120,000 confused yankees....Priceless |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - November 16 2007 : 11:16:08 AM
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| Actually Pelham started with two guns, a Napoleon and an ordinance rifle; the rifle was disabled in the action. And only the 3 divisions of Reynolds' I Corps were affected by his fire. Besides, I was only naming U.S. artillery heroes of the Mexican War; 3 of them just happened to go on to become Confederate generals. ( Ringgold died in battle in 1846 - too bad it wasn't Bragg instead! ) |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - November 18 2007 : 10:05:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by James N.
For Wilderness Woman: If you will look at the photo, you can see that the bore is VERY rusty; that's the only part made of steel/metal. As Hawkeye Joe has said, all the rest is a tough fibreglass; some parts like the dolphins ( handles ) on top are a very tough industrial-type plastic.
Thanks, James. On my monitor, it was difficult to tell if the inside of the bore was rusty metal, or wood. In fact, it looked more like wood to me, but now I can see that it is rust I am looking at.
I am absolutely flabbergasted at the amount of money filmmakers will put into the details of a set or props so that they will look good on camera.
When the movie "Maverick" with Mel Gibson and James Garner was made, part of it was filmed on the Columbia River between Oregon and Washington. For the paddlewheel riverboat, they used the Str. Portland, which is a retired, decommissioned stern-wheel tug boat that is permanently docked as a museum. The movie company spent $3 million to "fancy" it up and make it into a passenger riverboat... then return it to it previous restored condition as a tugboat museum. As an example, they used real gold leaf gilt on parts of the wood, rather than gold paint, because "it shows up better on camera." Say what??? For the possible 2 minutes total it was on the screen? Give me a break...
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 24 2007
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Posted - November 18 2007 : 12:30:47 PM
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Unfortunately, what with the rise of CGA, or "computer generated anamation", this may become a thing of the past! If Mohicans was made today, Fort William Henry would be all done by computer animation; and so Rich would've had NOTHING to look for in the way of an actual SITE! ( Think Spiderman et al., ad nauseum! ) The armies of extras needed for the fort and massacre will likewise be unneeded, as they, too, can all be animated! I really don't think it bodes well for those of us who like the old-fashioned "spectacle" type films. EVERYTHING will wind up looking like a computer game, like in Lord of the Rings! |
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