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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
USA
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May 18 2002
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 Posted - October 25 2007 : 01:44:38 AM
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| Welcome to the board, MBC! |
We become what we think about. |
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MaguasBastardChild
Pathfinder
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October 18 2007
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 03:05:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Woods
Welcome to the board, MBC!
thanks, I'm usually banned before the 3rd or 4th post on most boards, so Im setting records here  |
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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October 04 2007
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 05:54:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
I dunno. Never seen his interview or read anything on his take. It would be interesting to see though. I always liked Magua's character and Wes Studi is the only man that could have pulled it off so perfectly. 
It's on the site, just found the bit he talks about it, the interview is so long it took me a while to find it again but here it is:
MP: That whole sequence was perhaps the very best in the movie. There’s been a lot of discussion and analysis on our board about that scene in particular. Every expression, every gesture that you made, Jodhi May as well, but especially you, was perfect. Very evocative sequence of expressions, emotions ... you seem to range from cold blooded and detached to surprised and even curious almost, pity almost ... then ending as though you’re just dismissing her.
WS: Exactly! You worded that so accurately ... that was great!
MP: That’s because you conveyed those emotions so perfectly. It was amazing. Tell us what Magua was thinking ... what were his emotions?
WS: Okay, what happened is I kill a guy ... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter and I look up and at first it’s “here’s another enemy.” Then I see that it’s only a child, and a female child at that. So I think, “well, maybe I should take it and raise it” ... in terms of what Magua was thinking. Then it looks at me in fright and jumps and it comes back to me that “ oh, this is one of those people. One of those people and I don’t understand how they think anyway. It’s just as well.” And he walks off.
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MaguasBastardChild
Pathfinder
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 11:59:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
I dunno. Never seen his interview or read anything on his take. It would be interesting to see though. I always liked Magua's character and Wes Studi is the only man that could have pulled it off so perfectly.
It's on the site, just found the bit he talks about it, the interview is so long it took me a while to find it again but here it is ... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter
I thought Maguas kids were all dead? |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 12:04:42 PM
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They were but his daughter would probably have been around the same age. Raising Alice? Wow! What a thought!
The Sachem gives her as a wife and he decides he wants to raise her. Then it's "one of them" when she jumps.
WS is awesome! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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February 14 2006
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 12:05:00 PM
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| He means in real life he has a daughter whom he thought about. |
IG |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - October 25 2007 : 12:13:40 PM
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OH!
Now I get it! Still he did a fantastic job. |
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MaguasBastardChild
Pathfinder
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 01:00:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
He means in real life he has a daughter whom he thought about.
WS: Okay, what happened is I kill a guy ... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter and I look up and at first it’s “here’s another enemy.” Then I see that it’s only a child, and a female child at that. So I think, “well, maybe I should take it and raise it” ... in terms of what Magua was thinking. Then it looks at me in fright and jumps and it comes back to me that “ oh, this is one of those people. One of those people and I don’t understand how they think anyway. It’s just as well.” And he walks off.
I thought he was talking about Maguas perspective of the situation in character, but i guess he was mixing in his own thoughts and maguas thoughts. I dont think the "ill take IT and raise IT" would be Wes thinking. IT??? Shes a hottie, not an IT !!!!!! lol magua might think of them as objects |
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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October 04 2007
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 05:24:43 AM
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| Yeah I think he was talking from Magua's POV. It shows he at least has some heart left in him. |
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Pat
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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October 25 2007
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Pat
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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October 25 2007
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 4:15:24 PM
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When Magua and his men were leaving Sachem's village, he allowed one of his men to take a knife and cut the bond's off Alice's wrists, so it seems to me that he had decided to show less contempt for her. I don't think he intended to kill her. He almost killed her on the cliff after his altercation with Uncas, because he had reached the breaking point.
Twice, Hawkeye, Uncas, and Chingachcook had rescued these girls. Then when Magua finally gets them to Sachem's village to exact total revenge, Hawkeye shows up and refers to him as having a "twisted heart." Sachem apparently agrees with Hawkeye when he tells Magua to take Alice so that "Magua's heart is healed." 95% of Magua's ideas were shot down by Sachem because of what Hawkeye said. No one in the village complained about Sachem's judgement, so not only was Magua enraged, he probably felt like a total fool. Neverless, he had Alice's bonds removed.
Then on the cliff, adding insult to injury, Uncas shows up again and kills several of his men. Magua went a into blind rage, killed Uncas, and almost killed Alice before he got hold of his emotions and tried to get her away from the edge of the cliff.
Magua was a middle-aged military man. Maybe one of the reasons he tried to get her off the cliff was because he was just plain tired, remembered how nice it once was to have a nice domestic situation to come home to, and thought maybe he could have that again. As far as I can tell from the movie, he had not remarried and had more children.
He is not a flat character. He is very complicated and interesting.
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 5:13:09 PM
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#1 from the script:
quote:
ALICE
looks down at Uncas, her lover, dead on the rocks below. She turns to Magua with enigmatic calm. Her eyes seem to see into him. She steps off the edge. She falls to her death next to Uncas ...
The script clearly shows that Alice saw Uncas as her lover.
#2 I question that Alice had lost her mind or her will to live.
Kirachi wrote:
"like i said before she just snaps and loses that last bit of her will to live and jumps..."
I do not think that the look on Alice's face before she jumped was one of dispair or the look of a lost soul. I saw it as her finally taking her life in her own hands for the first time ever and deciding that she did not want to live with the man who had killed her lover and decided to join him in a death of her chosing. She looked strong and confidant for the first time in the movie.
#3 Why did Hawkeye care about the Greyhair?
The Greyhair was white...and while he might not have agreed with him on many things he had to "follow his gifts" and support the whitemen. Chingachgook and Uncas followed his lead.
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HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
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lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
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MaguasBastardChild
Pathfinder
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 6:40:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat
When Magua and his men were leaving Sachem's village, he allowed one of his men to take a knife and cut the bond's off Alice's wrists, so it seems to me that he had decided to show less contempt for her. I don't think he intended to kill her. He almost killed her on the cliff after his altercation with Uncas, because he had reached the breaking point.
Twice, Hawkeye, Uncas, and Chingachcook had rescued these girls. Then when Magua finally gets them to Sachem's village to exact total revenge, Hawkeye shows up and refers to him as having a "twisted heart." Sachem apparently agrees with Hawkeye when he tells Magua to take Alice so that "Magua's heart is healed." 95% of Magua's ideas were shot down by Sachem because of what Hawkeye said. No one in the village complained about Sachem's judgement, so not only was Magua enraged, he probably felt like a total fool. Neverless, he had Alice's bonds removed.
Then on the cliff, adding insult to injury, Uncas shows up again and kills several of his men. Magua went a into blind rage, killed Uncas, and almost killed Alice before he got hold of his emotions and tried to get her away from the edge of the cliff.
Magua was a middle-aged military man. Maybe one of the reasons he tried to get her off the cliff was because he was just plain tired, remembered how nice it once was to have a nice domestic situation to come home to, and thought maybe he could have that again. As far as I can tell from the movie, he had not remarried and had more children.
He is not a flat character. He is very complicated and interesting.
whether or not Mugua was going to Kill alice, as he motioned for her to come back off the cliff,, is open to debate..the camera clearly shows Magua with his blody knife still in his hand. He would have put it back in its sheath if he wasnt for sure going to kill her. Maybe he hadnt decided to or not, maybe he had it out in case hawkeye showed up. Maybe it being out added to the confusion Alice was feeling and helped her to decide to jump. But they do show the knife for a reason |
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Pat
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 7:50:50 PM
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| I'm sure you are correct about the unsheathed knife being the deciding factor in Alice's decision to go ahead and step off the cliff. I believe, judging from the look on Magua's face, that he intended to try to treat her like family, but she didn't know that. And even if she had understood this, what kind of life would it have been for her? She was not accustomed to the harsh realities of frontier life, and that's all she had seen the last week of her life. I'm sure she must have thought it was easier to die than to live. |
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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October 04 2007
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Posted - October 26 2007 : 7:58:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
#2 I question that Alice had lost her mind or her will to live.
Kirachi wrote:
"like i said before she just snaps and loses that last bit of her will to live and jumps..."
I do not think that the look on Alice's face before she jumped was one of dispair or the look of a lost soul. I saw it as her finally taking her life in her own hands for the first time ever and deciding that she did not want to live with the man who had killed her lover and decided to join him in a death of her chosing. She looked strong and confidant for the first time in the movie.
Normally when people kill themselves it's not because they feel calm and happy inside. She jumped because there was no other way out in her head.
The first look she gives him is full of fear, her eyes full of tears, she turns looks behind and when she looks back at him her expression has completely changed to a look of calmness, eerie calmness, you don't go from being terrified to calm in a second. Just because someone's mind snaps doesn't mean they turn into a jibbering wreck.
She did make the choice, but it's questionable if she was in her right mind, throughtout the script Alice is dipicted as someone that cannot deal with what is going on around her, frequently going into her own little world, I doubt she had all her marbles by this point, having seen all the carnage, dragged from a forest by Huron and watching the man that just tried to save her murdered right in front of her.
If she had suddenly decided to be "strong and brave" in that moment she would have fought to live.
Personally I love Alice with all her faults, she's more human for it and it's easier to relate to her. It's easy to say I'd be brave in her situation but honestly i think I would end up being more like her. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - October 27 2007 : 12:25:27 AM
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By that do you mean dead?
Sorry, Kirachi. I just couldn't let it pass.
I don't think I could ever have died the way Alice did. Something about jumping off a cliff, just couldn't do it.
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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October 04 2007
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Posted - October 27 2007 : 06:16:51 AM
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lol Light, yes probably I would have ended up dead in that situation, probably more because I would chat on with myself until Magua got so annoyed with me he pushed me off the cliff
No, I honestly don't know what I'd do in Alice's shoes, I suppose it would depend on the state of my mind, I'd like to say I'd still have enough of my senses left to go to Magua instead of jumping though....
But my Uncas would be dead what would be the point? *cries* LOL |
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - October 27 2007 : 7:50:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
No, I honestly don't know what I'd do in Alice's shoes, I suppose it would depend on the state of my mind, I'd like to say I'd still have enough of my senses left to go to Magua instead of jumping though....
But my Uncas would be dead what would be the point? *cries* LOL
As I heard someone say lately, if there is life, there is hope, but one cannot hope if he is dead. If Alice had gone to Magua there is always the chance that someone else could rescue her or that she could adapt to a new life, however different it might have been. (Who knows? Maybe meet another gorgeous Indian warrior.) But, I guess she was "dead" inside already. She had no hope left, so decided to put an end to her physical being, just as her soul was already dead. |
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MaguasBastardChild
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Posted - October 28 2007 : 12:51:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by winglo
quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
No, I honestly don't know what I'd do in Alice's shoes, I suppose it would depend on the state of my mind, I'd like to say I'd still have enough of my senses left to go to Magua instead of jumping though....
But my Uncas would be dead what would be the point? *cries* LOL
As I heard someone say lately, if there is life, there is hope, but one cannot hope if he is dead. If Alice had gone to Magua there is always the chance that someone else could rescue her or that she could adapt to a new life, however different it might have been. (Who knows? Maybe meet another gorgeous Indian warrior.) But, I guess she was "dead" inside already. She had no hope left, so decided to put an end to her physical being, just as her soul was already dead.
I think she felt Magua was going to kill her, thus the knife being shown. also im not sure who she knew was still alive, she got rushed outta the village pretty quick while the others were still bickering, then she heard gun fire i presume, and then only Uncas shows up and goes haywire all by himself. she wasnt having a good time |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - October 28 2007 : 12:43:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
lol Light, yes probably I would have ended up dead in that situation, probably more because I would chat on with myself until Magua got so annoyed with me he pushed me off the cliff
No, I honestly don't know what I'd do in Alice's shoes, I suppose it would depend on the state of my mind, I'd like to say I'd still have enough of my senses left to go to Magua instead of jumping though....
But my Uncas would be dead what would be the point? *cries* LOL
LOL Kirachi. We have more in common than believed! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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Posted - October 28 2007 : 1:33:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
lol Light, yes probably I would have ended up dead in that situation, probably more because I would chat on with myself until Magua got so annoyed with me he pushed me off the cliff
No, I honestly don't know what I'd do in Alice's shoes, I suppose it would depend on the state of my mind, I'd like to say I'd still have enough of my senses left to go to Magua instead of jumping though....
But my Uncas would be dead what would be the point? *cries* LOL
LOL Kirachi. We have more in common than believed!
haha that's good to know I'm not the only one Light  |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - October 29 2007 : 10:11:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
haha that's good to know I'm not the only one Light
Isn't it? It's so nice to not be alone anymore! |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - October 29 2007 : 11:41:37 AM
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| Oh Lordy, not another one of them! Would that make Kira "Light Light?" *hoses down mudpit* |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - October 30 2007 : 12:54:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
Oh Lordy, not another one of them! Would that make Kira "Light Light?" *hoses down mudpit*
Worried Old Man?
Don't worry, we'll take it easy on ya' in the pit so you won't get your feelings hurt . Heh-heh-heh . |
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![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
Why did Magua march all the way up to the cliff to kill alice?
