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MaguasBastardChild
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 Posted - October 18 2007 : 8:44:16 PM
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seems like a waste of time and didnt allow any other idians to see her die in the village. was that a sacrificial spot for them?
and why would hawkeye and his family even bother helping the grey hairs? magua had a serious beef with the greyhairs
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Irishgirl
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Posted - October 18 2007 : 8:50:09 PM
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Magua did not intend to kill Alice but take her far away. She jumped from the cliff after seeing Magua kill Uncas and push him off the cliff. Some say she wanted to join Uncas at the bottom of the Cliff rather than face what terrible ordeal lay ahead for her.
As for Hawkeye helping the grey hairs, well Hawkeye was in love with Cora and he wanted to resuce her and Alice from Magua who wanted to wipe the grey hairs seed from the earth.
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Obediah
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 01:49:41 AM
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| And ... Alice didn't much care to see all that blood of Uncas' on Magua's hand ... |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 07:47:59 AM
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I believe Alice jumped because she was trapped, scared and she finally wanted to choose her own path. Plus the man who had just tried to save her died for her that's got to hit anyone hard.
Who knows if Magua would have killed Alice once he had gotten to the place they were travelling to, but at that point i don't think he was going to kill her.
I believe Magua said something like he was taking her to the Huron by the lake.
As for Hawkeye, he never showed any hatred towards the "grey hairs" in the way that Magua did. If he disliked them he would not have saved them at the beginning or helped them get to the fort, the same goes for his father and brother.
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RedFraggle
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 08:08:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
I believe Alice jumped because she was trapped, scared and she finally wanted to choose her own path. Plus the man who had just tried to save her died for her that's got to hit anyone hard.
Who knows if Magua would have killed Alice once he had gotten to the place they were travelling to, but at that point i don't think he was going to kill her.
I believe Magua said something like he was taking her to the Huron by the lake. . . .
Yay! Another person who doesn't think that Alice jumped for love! 
And I think you're right about Magua. He does say something like "This is not justice. We will go to the Huron of the Lakes." Maybe he thought he could get the other tribe fired up to burn her at the stake. (Yes, awful pun intended.  )
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Okay, my paraphrase was a bit off. According to the script, he says, "This is not the voice of wisdom. I go to the Hurons of the Lakes!" I think Magua wanted to prove himself as a great war chief, and could only do so if honored by a tribal leader like the Sachem. Maybe there was another Sachem in charge of the Huron of the Lakes? |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 08:27:20 AM
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haha I think Uncas' death helped her make her mind up but i think she jumped more for herself than Uncas.
I think Uncas died because he loved her though |
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MaguasBastardChild
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 12:06:25 PM
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| Where does this whole "love" deal come from between Uncas and Alice? He has eyes for her early as they go up the cliffs and then hugs her when they are under the waterfall. hardly a love story. Any guy would do what he did, and back at that fort Uncas was found being tended to by madeliene stowes character. sure something may have been going on, but what others times does it show? He tries to save alice from magua but only because he is the first to arrive there. And after they jump in the waterfall, you see Hawkeye running the fastest to save the girls, the other 2 are just backing his play |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 12:16:32 PM
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Hoo-HOO!!! Oh, boy, are you going to get blasted! If you have done any reading in the threads on these boards, you will see that there are those here who are adamant that there was a love relationship between the two. And there are those who feel that Uncas "cared for" Alice but that she did not return the favor. I am one of the latter.
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Irishgirl
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 12:48:38 PM
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| Well, for once, I'm staying out of this one. Let the "fun" begin. |
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MaguasBastardChild
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 12:49:56 PM
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| well then, why didnt Hawkeye and Chinacook (the dad spel?) say ANYTHING about Alice when they gave the prayers to spirt god at the end? IT was actually disrepctful to Cora that they said nothing about Alice. Just praise and prayer for Uncas. If uncas was in love, they would say let them be together in the spirt world or some nonsense |
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winglo
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 1:26:02 PM
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The script makes it pretty clear, although the movie does not, that Chingachgook didn't approve of Uncas' admiration for Alice. He certainly is not going to wish for an eternity together for them.
Also, there is no way of knowing if there had already been some kind of prayer for Alice to her god prior to what we see being said to the Great Spirit for Uncas. There is lots left to the imagination in this movie, not least of which is the love or lack thereof between Alice and Uncas. |
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blackfootblood
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 1:58:08 PM
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Welcome to the board, MBC! Happy Posting!  |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 19 2007 : 3:04:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MaguasBastardChild
Where does this whole "love" deal come from between Uncas and Alice? He has eyes for her early as they go up the cliffs and then hugs her when they are under the waterfall. hardly a love story. Any guy would do what he did, and back at that fort Uncas was found being tended to by madeliene stowes character. sure something may have been going on, but what others times does it show? He tries to save alice from magua but only because he is the first to arrive there. And after they jump in the waterfall, you see Hawkeye running the fastest to save the girls, the other 2 are just backing his play
Well who knows if he really loved her at the end of the day but his actions at the end of the film are not of someone who just "got there first" he clearly puts his hand on his father and gives him a knowing look (in the script his father tries to grab his arm to stop him)
If he didn't have feelings for her he would have waited for his father and Hawkeye and gone together to get Alice back.
Also about the waterfall, there was a love scene that was cut out so that helps explain how far it went between them, why Mann cut that out i'll never know but there ya go.
and the argument about Hawkeye running fastest, he's the star, he's going to have all the front shots and the story focuses more on his and Cora's love than Alice & Uncas, Mann edited a lot of footage of them out because he wanted Hawkeye and Cora to be the main focus.
So, Uncas did have feeling for Alice, how far they went who knows he doesn't seem like a player lol but who knows he may have a trail of broken hearts behind him.
I persoanlly, deep down don't think Alice had strong feelings for him until she was at the cliff...and if it was love or not...who knows maybe she was just grateful he was trying to save her.
Of course I love to kid myself they were both deeply in love with each other but the time they had together wasn't enough to build that kind of love, if it could have been...again who knows |
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MaguasBastardChild
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 12:32:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
quote:
Originally posted by MaguasBastardChild
Where does this whole "love" deal come from between Uncas and Alice? He has eyes for her early as they go up the cliffs and then hugs her when they are under the waterfall. hardly a love story. Any guy would do what he did, and back at that fort Uncas was found being tended to by madeliene stowes character. sure something may have been going on, but what others times does it show? He tries to save alice from magua but only because he is the first to arrive there. And after they jump in the waterfall, you see Hawkeye running the fastest to save the girls, the other 2 are just backing his play
Well who knows if he really loved her at the end of the day but his actions at the end of the film are not of someone who just "got there first" he clearly puts his hand on his father and gives him a knowing look (in the script his father tries to grab his arm to stop him)
If he didn't have feelings for her he would have waited for his father and Hawkeye and gone together to get Alice back.
Also about the waterfall, there was a love scene that was cut out so that helps explain how far it went between them, why Mann cut that out i'll never know but there ya go.
and the argument about Hawkeye running fastest, he's the star, he's going to have all the front shots and the story focuses more on his and Cora's love than Alice & Uncas, Mann edited a lot of footage of them out because he wanted Hawkeye and Cora to be the main focus.
So, Uncas did have feeling for Alice, how far they went who knows he doesn't seem like a player lol but who knows he may have a trail of broken hearts behind him.
I persoanlly, deep down don't think Alice had strong feelings for him until she was at the cliff...and if it was love or not...who knows maybe she was just grateful he was trying to save her.
Of course I love to kid myself they were both deeply in love with each other but the time they had together wasn't enough to build that kind of love, if it could have been...again who knows
I never made any connection of her killing herself to any love feelings for Uncas. They may have been there. but I just saw her actions and facing expressions throughout the movie, she seemed like one who couldnt handle the brutal violence, the desperate helplessness and the precarious changes in her surroundings., She only appeared at ease when she found her father. Once Uncas was killed, I think she may have felt Cora was either dead or possibly not ever returning (since Uncas showed up alone, was he the last of the 3 men that could save her? she didnt know where they were, and they were all together the times before this in the movie). She was just at her wits ends and mentally was done with the insecurity and no way was going to let the brutal Magua and his minions slaughter her. Saying she was that in love with Uncas is nuts. How old is she, 16? IF she did have sex with him in some deleted scene, that would say alot more about it, but I havent seen it. So its most likey all of the above i mentioned and her like/love for uncas. who knows |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 06:43:22 AM
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I believe I did state that I personally believe Alice didn't have any strong feelings until the cliff scene, and I did say who knew if it was love or more gratefulness that someone had come.
And i did say I thought she jumped for herself not because Uncas was dead although I'm pretty sure that seeing him die, feelings or no, made up her mind. She'd seen to much death and that made her snap.
she was meant to be 18 in the movie (the actress was 16 in real life)
And age isn't really a factor, many women were married well before their 18th Birthday.
And the end of the day it's Uncas had feelings for Alice, Alice's feelings are never made clear it's up to peoples personal views at the end of the day. |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 1:04:03 PM
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Hello, MBC and welcome to Mohican Land and it's Alice and Uncas firing squad!
Good topic, BTW. I think Alice jumped because she cared for Uncas but don't think you could really pull love out of it unless you included all the deleted scenes. Taking scrictly from the movie there was no real relationship. So I think her jumping was a combo of her iffatuation for Uncas (not love)and her ever scary looming future with Magua.
Personally, I would have stayed with Magua rather than jump. That way I could serve as a constant reminder of the shameful thing he did to the man I wanted. |
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susank2
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 2:56:33 PM
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[/quote]
I never made any connection of her killing herself to any love feelings for Uncas. They may have been there. but I just saw her actions and facing expressions throughout the movie, she seemed like one who couldnt handle the brutal violence, the desperate helplessness and the precarious changes in her surroundings., She only appeared at ease when she found her father. Once Uncas was killed, I think she may have felt Cora was either dead or possibly not ever returning (since Uncas showed up alone, was he the last of the 3 men that could save her? she didnt know where they were, and they were all together the times before this in the movie). She was just at her wits ends and mentally was done with the insecurity and no way was going to let the brutal Magua and his minions slaughter her. Saying she was that in love with Uncas is nuts. How old is she, 16? IF she did have sex with him in some deleted scene, that would say alot more about it, but I havent seen it. So its most likey all of the above i mentioned and her like/love for uncas. who knows
[/quote]
I completly agree with you. I think by the time Alice jumped she had totally lost her mind. She wasn't capable of rational thought at that moment. She didn't care about Uncas then, or ever. She said maybe 2 words to him the entire movie and never actually looked at him except to yell at him about the horses. Then she sees him at the bottom of the cliff and probably thought..."that seems like a good idea"....and jumps. |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 6:53:51 PM
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I half agree with you susan but I think it's hard to judge if she actually had feelings for him...love i don't think so but feelings hmmm
The way she starts towards him at the cliffs and the look in her eyes as she watches him fight doesn't say to me she didn't care....but i don't persoanlly think it was love (as much as i'd like to lol)
It's hard to even say if uncas loved her, he certainly ahd feelings for her but the amount of time they had together can't really, fully amount to love.
Even the love scene was not a be all and end all of if it were love, it says that what they had went deeper than mere glances at each other but the script does give the impression that Alice doesn't fully know what she's doing.
I believe by the cliff scene, Alice's mind is half gone...she can't handle the horror and death she's seen and that is the major factor in why she jumped, Uncas dying was the icing on the cake, not because she lost the person she loved by because a man who tried to save her just died for her right in front of her eyes....like i said before she just snaps and loses that last bit of her will to live and jumps...
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Obediah
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Posted - October 20 2007 : 11:19:30 PM
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| Nah, as I've said before, Alice just missed that first step as she backed away from Magua's bloody hand! BTW, welcome to the Board, MBC! |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - October 21 2007 : 01:07:00 AM
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| Actually, truth be told, it was because she realized that he really loved me instead! |
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MaguasBastardChild
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Posted - October 21 2007 : 10:51:15 PM
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| well after watching the directors cut, which edited out some good lines for who knows why, maybe Uncas did really like Alice more than i thought, he does race to 'save' her, even though at that time she wasnt in danger of being killed (he didnt know that though, since he couldnt hear the deal that went down with the sachem chief dude) and he then tries to kill all of maguas troops by himself, totally a dumb move and only one someone might make to save a loved one. And why did the sachem tell magua to take alice to keep Munros seed from dying out? He really thought Magua wanted to have kids with her to save Munros seed??? WTF, Magua wanted that least of all things. Then the guys that were under the waterfall with the major and the girls, they dissappear. Were they killed since they werent Officers and not worth it to sell them back to the english? |
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 22 2007 : 10:03:58 AM
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Yeah, what Uncas did was pretty silly, if only he'd waited but I suppose that feeling of love can make people do silly things right.
I think sachem chief was very un happy with the way Magua had handled things and it was a sort of punishment that he couldn't get the full revenge he'd wanted, he had to go and live with Alice, make her his wife and have children with her, it'd be a constant reminder to him that he did not get his full revenge...so I think it was a punishment for his behaviour. Magua is clearly unhappy about this so says he's going to the Lake Huron, perhaps to see what their judgement will be on Alice, hoping that they will grant his full revenge and burn her, or worse.
I get the feeling as brutal as he is, he very much lives by Huron law and would not disobey it, so maybe that's why he's taking Alice to the lake Huron.
I think the other men that were captured were probably killed at the waterfall, I don't remember them in the group being lead to the villiage.
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winglo
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Posted - October 22 2007 : 1:17:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
I think the other men that were captured were probably killed at the waterfall, I don't remember them in the group being lead to the villiage.
They were. You can see at least one of them getting knifed under the falls if you watch carefully. |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - October 24 2007 : 12:44:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
Magua is clearly unhappy about this so says he's going to the Lake Huron, perhaps to see what their judgement will be on Alice, hoping that they will grant his full revenge and burn her, or worse.
I don't think Maugua would have killed her. What the sachem did was make Alice his wife right on the spot. It was the Sachem's way of allowing Col Monroe to replace the two things that he destroyed. Magua's wife and kids.
Kinda' hard to kill her when natives were raised with a great deal of respect for the sanctity of marriage.
Plus, the way he weakened under Alice's stare and then he motioned for her to come to him before she jumped. Then there was the look on his face. I'm not saying he really wanted her because I don't think that he did but I don't think he had it in mind to take her life either.
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Kirachi
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Posted - October 24 2007 : 07:08:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
Magua is clearly unhappy about this so says he's going to the Lake Huron, perhaps to see what their judgement will be on Alice, hoping that they will grant his full revenge and burn her, or worse.
I don't think Maugua would have killed her. What the sachem did was make Alice his wife right on the spot. It was the Sachem's way of allowing Col Monroe to replace the two things that he destroyed. Magua's wife and kids.
Kinda' hard to kill her when natives were raised with a great deal of respect for the sanctity of marriage.
Plus, the way he weakened under Alice's stare and then he motioned for her to come to him before she jumped. Then there was the look on his face. I'm not saying he really wanted her because I don't think that he did but I don't think he had it in mind to take her life either.
But isn't he very disrespectful to the sachem by saying "you are all women" or something to that effect?
That to me says he's pretty annoyed with the whole thing and will likely not obey...but I may be wrong.
I didn't know that it was meant to be taken as they were married from that moment on, but yes it would make it harder to kill her if that was the case.
I think he weakened a little seeing Alice at the cliff edge because he saw her as a child perhaps even his own daughter for a moment. Didn't Wes Studi explain in an interview that he thought Magua was thinking along those lines but when she jumped he went to thinking "she's just one of them"
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - October 24 2007 : 11:46:20 PM
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| I dunno. Never seen his interview or read anything on his take. It would be interesting to see though. I always liked Magua's character and Wes Studi is the only man that could have pulled it off so perfectly. |
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![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
Why did Magua march all the way up to the cliff to kill alice?
