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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - August 26 2006 : 06:02:18 AM
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I must be nuts! In 2000 several of us re-created the march of Lt. Col. John Armstrong and his September 8, 1756 raid on the Delaware Indian village at Kittanning for the 200th Anniversary of Armstrong County, PA. Militarily, some scholars poo-poo the raid, but it was the first raid into the Indians home turf and was a very successful morale booster for a populace which needed a boost. It was the "18th century Doolittle raid," if you will.
http://www.mohicanpress.com/kittanning.html
Well, we are doing it again, starting tomorrow, however, with some modifications due to some unforeseen circumstances, but the spirit of the mission will be fulfilled. This time the event is for the 250th Anniversary observance as a part of the F&I War 250th. Kittanning has gone all out, and the whole week will be filled with exhibits, art shows, a big encampment and, of course, a dawn attack on the village....just as Armstrong did 250 years ago.
For more information on the event, go here:
www.armstrongcounty.com
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Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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July 17 2005
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Posted - August 26 2006 : 12:18:09 PM
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| It does seem like the best events are happening up north. It would be great to be there. But I will content myself by attending the Fort Loudoun Trade Faire that same weekend (Vonore, TN). |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
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Posted - August 26 2006 : 12:48:00 PM
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| So, while I was posting the above message, the door bell rang and the postman delivered a package. It is a book I had ordered the other day, published by the Mechling Bookbindery, titled "The Attack On Kit-han-ne" by Larry A. Smail. Must be an omen! Now I will have to turn the TV on the Daniel Boone marathon and take a look at my new book. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 10 2006 : 5:19:42 PM
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I almost went to this one.I did not appear to me that the sponsors wanted to do a whole lot for the reenactors however. I hate people who want something for nothing. |
Highlander |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 08:20:06 AM
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Too bad you didn't make it, Ed, you missed the event of a lifetime. The other 250 plus reenactors who were there certainly do not share your selfish attitude. Actually, the organizers DID go out of their way to see that everyone was very well taken care of, and that we all had something to take home which will last forever, but you had to be there to get it. What did you think you deserved to honour us with your presence?
This was a first class event, and it will be very hard to surpass. Many of the reenactors have voiced their opinion that it was the best they have EVER attended and had the HONOUR to be a part of. The battle at dawn was simply mouth-open awesome. Oh, yes, between 500 and 1000 citizens of the county and from across this country began arriving about 5:30 AM and were sitting on the hill watching it all unfold before them. The 1 PM battle was played out before close to 2000 spectators who gave a loud and long standing ovation to the players. In my extensive reenacting career, this event was simply the absolute best that I have experienced, and my opinion is shared by many, many of those who did choose to be there....for all the RIGHT reasons.
Several of the participants who went into the town to have dinner Friday night or just to look around voiced to me that they "could not believe the level of enthusiasm and total community involvement" which had been generated. They said they were astounded that this was "all anyone talked about." There was much more to the whole event, in and around the town and the county, but I will not detail it all here. You just wouldn't understand.
Oh...and no one asked where you were, in case you wondered; none of those who chose to come to 'play', nor none of the THOUSANDS of spectators and visitors to the camps. Nope....never heard your name mentioned. Not once.
Sorry, my friend, but you are way off base on this one. |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 12:48:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Seamus
Too bad you didn't make it, Ed, you missed the event of a lifetime. The other 250 plus reenactors who were there certainly do not share your selfish attitude. Actually, the organizers DID go out of their way to see that everyone was very well taken care of, and that we all had something to take home which will last forever, but you had to be there to get it. What did you think you deserved to honour us with your presence?
This was a first class event, and it will be very hard to surpass. Many of the reenactors have voiced their opinion that it was the best they have EVER attended and had the HONOUR to be a part of. The battle at dawn was simply mouth-open awesome. Oh, yes, between 500 and 1000 citizens of the county and from across this country began arriving about 5:30 AM and were sitting on the hill watching it all unfold before them. The 1 PM battle was played out before close to 2000 spectators who gave a loud and long standing ovation to the players. In my extensive reenacting career, this event was simply the absolute best that I have experienced, and my opinion is shared by many, many of those who did choose to be there....for all the RIGHT reasons.
Several of the participants who went into the town to have dinner Friday night or just to look around voiced to me that they "could not believe the level of enthusiasm and total community involvement" which had been generated. They said they were astounded that this was "all anyone talked about." There was much more to the whole event, in and around the town and the county, but I will not detail it all here. You just wouldn't understand.
Oh...and no one asked where you were, in case you wondered; none of those who chose to come to 'play', nor none of the THOUSANDS of spectators and visitors to the camps. Nope....never heard your name mentioned. Not once.
Sorry, my friend, but you are way off base on this one.
My guess is that it was the "Event of a Lifetime" because YOU were involved.It seems that you've always got your hand in something these days.The fact that a lousy stipend couldn't be paid to the reenactors to cover the cost of gas or powder speaks volumnes.So you helped raise thousands of dollars for the Armstrong County Tourist Bureau,big deal.What was your cut? I'm sorry that not everyone shares your enthusiasm or willingness to give something for nothing.I believe that Vladimir Lenin referred to you guys as "useful idiots". |
Highlander |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 1:22:47 PM
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You really do not get it, do you?? What did I get from it?? More than you are capable of understanding.
Your rant deserves no more response than that.
BTW...What's a "volumnes"? |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 2:35:19 PM
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To be philosophical then,Dr.Fred Anderson stated that Kittanning was a "massacre". I see no need to celebrate the genocide of the native americans in order to pump a few bucks into a depressed community.What is your next event then Col.Jack, a reenactment passing out smallpox infected blankets at Ft.Pitt? |
Highlander |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 2:51:05 PM
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| Do you feel better, Ed? |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 2:53:29 PM
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Celebrate?? If you had paid attention, or had been there, you'd have seen that word was not used at all in the event, nor any of its publicity.
Anderson is entitled to his opinion, of course, but a massacre?? No..... |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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felicitysgramma
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 11 2006
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 5:51:04 PM
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I am incensed at the suggestion that any organizers or participants should have received any compensation, and the inference that any of the organizers of this event asked for or would have accepted any. Is that what some are in this for? I didn't know that anyone was that selfish, and I can assure you that none of the organizers of the Kittanning event are of that ilk. I thought that we do this so that the history not taught elsewhere would not be lost or cleaned up to suit the sensibilities of whatever current culture can accept.
Those who made the choice to contribute nothing to this event have no place to wag their finger after the fact. Perhaps if you'd had even one moment of contribution to the work for this event either as support or a participant, you would understand what their five-year sacrifice was and what was gained through it.
This event produced a county-wide participation and a farther-reaching audience. Many had no idea of what had taken place literally in their own back yards. They learned, asked questions, became more aware of their own history. They came to see and to learn. What more can you ask? I do not begrudge one cent of the money I spent on gas, oil, food, t-shirts or anything else to help support this event.
I'm just sorry that my first post after being away for some time has had to be this. I do not normally take people to task for their opinions, but I will not let those who had no part whatsoever in an event spew such bile on those who did. |
“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.” - Benjamin Franklin |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 6:19:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
My guess is that it was the "Event of a Lifetime" because YOU were involved.It seems that you've always got your hand in something these days.The fact that a lousy stipend couldn't be paid to the reenactors to cover the cost of gas or powder speaks volumnes.So you helped raise thousands of dollars for the Armstrong County Tourist Bureau,big deal.What was your cut? I'm sorry that not everyone shares your enthusiasm or willingness to give something for nothing.I believe that Vladimir Lenin referred to you guys as "useful idiots".
Ed, my man! Settle down. OK? Good! |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 6:33:29 PM
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I am temporarily setting aside my moderator status for this discussion.
Seamus and Kay, I applaud you both. Bravo! I had no part at all in the planning or the support of this fine event. However, I can speak to it from three different angles: as an event planner, as a spectator, and as a participant. I've done them all. I can categorically say that this event was one of the finest I have seen in any of those three capacities.
The unselfish dedication and devotion shown by the planning committee, by everyone on the support team, and by every single uncomplaining re-enactor who was there was absolutely exemplary. I am so proud to have been there to experience it.
I drove over 300 miles, one way, which was a 6-hour trip, to participate in this exciting commemorative event. I spent my own hard-earned money on gas and food along the journey. I arrived back home at 1:00 AM this morning, very tired, very excited, and very fulfilled. I would do it again tomorrow.
Highlander, you stated that "you hate people who want something for nothing." I just want to say that some of us do not care very much for people who want (and think they deserve) everything for very little. I am very proud that I do not fall into that category. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 8:11:53 PM
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Since when should a personal opinion result in a personal attack?Wilderness Woman,I don't think that you know what the heck you're talking about,and are only riding in on Seamus's coattails.
Beam me up Scottie,there's no intelligent life down here. |
Highlander |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 8:14:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Seamus
Do you feel better, Ed?
Do you? |
Highlander |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 8:16:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by richfed
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
My guess is that it was the "Event of a Lifetime" because YOU were involved.It seems that you've always got your hand in something these days.The fact that a lousy stipend couldn't be paid to the reenactors to cover the cost of gas or powder speaks volumnes.So you helped raise thousands of dollars for the Armstrong County Tourist Bureau,big deal.What was your cut? I'm sorry that not everyone shares your enthusiasm or willingness to give something for nothing.I believe that Vladimir Lenin referred to you guys as "useful idiots".
Ed, my man! Settle down. OK? Good!
Sorry Rich,
But things are awefully one-sided around here again.Good Night & Good Luck.Ed |
Highlander |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2006 : 10:02:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Wilderness Woman,I don't think that you know what the heck you're talking about...
Actually, I do. You might be surprised at what I know. I think that perhaps you are one of those men who doesn't care to be outsmarted by women. Goodbye, Highlander. The average intelligence level of these boards just went up quite a bit with your departure. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
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Posted - September 12 2006 : 07:17:22 AM
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C'mon ED! Be real. The implications you make are clearly personal attacks - not merely opinions. I don't have any idea what might be going on behind the scenes - appears to be more here than meets the eye - but, please, settle it off-screen!
Seamus, feel free to "detail it all here"! Some of us WILL understand, and this thread is in dire need of getting back on track! |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - September 13 2006 : 07:18:25 AM
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I for one feel bad that I was unable to take part in the 250th of the Kittanning Expedition. Unfortunately between my 'day job', and pressing family duties, I had to miss out on this once-in-a-lifetime event. I have served with Seamus on several campaigns, which he had recreated, and I know that I probably missed one of his best.
Dammitt!!! Dammitt!!! Dammitt!!!
I will have to console myself with reading the official AAR, when it is posted...
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 13 2006 : 08:12:33 AM
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| Wondered where you were, Duncan, and thought perhaps this was the case. You did miss a dandy! |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 13 2006 : 2:07:28 PM
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I have posted in The Muster my Journal and AAR of the Kittanning 250th Commemoration event.
As I get time, I will post some pictures in an Album. Watch for them! |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 13 2006 : 9:31:06 PM
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From a Pittsburgh-area newspaper Editorial today:
Kit-Han-Ne kudos
Wednesday, September 13, 2006
Having an event that looks at an army of white men attacking and destroying a sleeping Native American village can be a risky proposition. But to their credit, the good folks at the Armstrong County Tourist Bureau and their supporters in county and local government and the Kittanning community put together one that was long on history and short on celebration.
It must have been tempting to turn the commemoration of the 250th anniversary of the Battle of Kittanning into a festival-type of event. After all, festivals are supposed to be fun and serve as fundraisers for local groups. We have no doubt there was pressure from some of these groups to turn the event into a bingo and chuck-a-luck whoop-de-doo.
But Kittanning stuck to a serious look at the Battle of Kit-Han-Ne, as the Delaware Indian village was known when it was attacked by Lt. Col. John Armstrong and 300 British soldiers before dawn 250 years ago during the French and Indian War. The event focused on re-enactors who lived in encampments that were as historically accurate as possible. The battle was re-enacted twice Sunday. There was a play, art exhibits and antique sales. There wasn't a funnel cake in sight.
We're loath to fall prey to political correctness and we hate people who use 21st-century values and hundreds of years of hindsight to criticize, undermine and demean the actions of historical figures. But not celebrating the raid wasn't a case of political correctness; it was a realization that history and good taste are more important than fundraising.
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Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - September 14 2006 : 7:30:05 PM
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History and good taste????
What did you go home with after witnessing this re-enactment?
A sense of awh having witnessed something that was disgustingly evil for its time to be relived w/out thought to the reality of the bloodshed of defenseless people? Women and children? Elderly and lame? Blind, deaf? They spared no mercy in that attack.
I commend you for having the strength to go and see such a horror resurrected. But I hope the morale behind it brought a higher level of awareness of how hate, greed, and racism can destroy man. No - this is not a "21st century" standpoint, so don't jump to that defense.
There is a lesson to be learned from history, from stories, from heritage, from time. These lessons are to be taken to heart for the betterment of all and we should gain something from them.
I am not assuming this was a "celebration" of any sort. A re-enactment is something all in it's own class. I just have a hard time seeing how reliving something like this, watching it unfold, and returning home thinking it was outstanding....
I'm speechless. All that I would have brought back from this is tears. Tears and prayers that those actions would never be repeated against the Delaware.
Out of mere curiosity...Does anyone know how the Delaware felt about this?
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I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 14 2005
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Posted - September 14 2006 : 8:29:40 PM
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| If I may, - re-enacting a historical event without "political correctness" is the only way history should be viewed. It doesn't support any point of view, - it simply portrays what actually happened. To do anything less, - would be misleading. One not "like" things that happened in the past, to appreciate an honest replay. Do the decendants of the Vikings (who had no part or control) still owe anything centuries later to those that were impacted by their raids? Should the Italians be responsible today, - for the let's say "impact" the Roman Legions had on Europe "in their time"? History is just that, - history, someting that has happened in the past. |
you can keep "The Change" |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 14 2006 : 10:39:31 PM
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Well said, MG.
Attending a re-enactment is like attending a play. Much of the time, the "play" is about an actual historical event and the re-enactors are the actors in the play. We need these plays to help teach us about history, for without our history we do not exist. We must view these plays with our eyes open and our minds unclouded with political agendas. The enjoyment we receive and the "outstandingness" comes only in our appreciation of the effort and the devotion and the dedication it took to plan, prepare, organize and present these plays.
I don't like to use the term political correctness, but these days re-enactments are presented differently. They are not called celebrations. They are usually called "commemorations." A commemoration is an occurrence that memorializes a person, people, or an event. A Memorial. A Remembrance. This is what we do. We Remember. We Honor. We do not express hatred. We do not show greed. We do not participate in racism.
The photo below was taken at this event, during a very moving (this was the appropriate time for tears) ceremony we held that Memorialized and Honored ALL of the participants of this historical event. Our friends Shining Eyes (on the right) and Turtle (on the left), both of whom have Native blood in their veins, were honored to be a part of this. And, yes. They participated in the recreation of the raid on the Lenape village, because they understood the real reason for this "play": to teach history.
Image Insert:
76.63 KB |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 15 2006 : 05:57:57 AM
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I just got this from a friend. It shows that these 'poor defenseless people' certainly were not! While a bit later than Armstrong's raid, toward the end of the French and Indian War, it illustrates that hostilities were still going on. In fact, over 700 names have been recorded as fatal victims of such attacks.
As a sidebar, the "one Hagenbuch" mentioned is an ancestor of our beloved Many Flags/Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam. I have been to the homestead and am familiar with the area described. You can find it mentioned in The Macwilliam Chronicles, on this Board. It is called the Allemangle.
If you are interested, the book, "The Indian Wars of Pennsylvania" , by C. Hale Sipe, available through many good libraries and Wennawoods, details this fascinating subject.
"Below is information just posted from the email newsletter of the
Hisortical Society of Berks County. This is an account from a New York City newspaper about an attack in the northern part of the county in Albany Township. (This area is about 40 miles from PHILADELPHIA, itself!! Seamus)Recall, however, at that time, Schuylkill County was also part of Berks County. I don't know if Albany Twp. also covered Schuylkill Co. or not, so it is difficult to determine which present day county the attack really occured in without further research.
The really cool thing is that the last paragraph of the account
indicates some of the Indians spoke Pennsylvania Dutch. This is not the first such reference to this fact I have come across. "
Stoffel
7- Vicky Heffner, the Society's Educational Curator, forwarded
this fascinating article from 1763. We're generally informed
in history books that most of "the problems" encountered in
the French and Indian War (1756-1763) occurred between 1754
and 1756.....and that by 1761, things had pretty well returned
to normal, or as normal as life was during that period.
That noted, here is the article, given exactly as printed in
that colonial newspaper:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
New York Mercury - November, 21, 1763
Headline: Philadelphia, November 15
The following account we have from Reading, in Berk's County,
viz: That on the 8th Init in the morning, the house of
Frantz Baily, in Albany Township was attacked by a party
of Indians, who fired several times through his windows
upon which he got up and fired at the enemy, when he
received a wound in his wrist and one of his children,
a boy, was killed.
That one Hagenbuch, and two of his sons, hearing the firing
went to his assistance, which made the Indians go off, without
destroying the house or barn.
That they next went to the house of one Stapleton, but one
of his sons seeing them, fired off a gun, which occasioned
their passing by that house and going to George Schifler's,
where they tomahawked and scalped his wife, mangled her
in a most cruel manner, and left her in a condition which a
regard to decency forbids to mention; they likewise killed
one of Schifler's sons, whom they scalped, and half roasted;
and burnt his dwelling house, barn, and all the other
buildings;
that from Schifler's they went to Jacob Tree's, killed one
Shober, and destroyed the house and barn; that they then
plundered Daniel Smith's house and burnt it, with all his
other buildings.
And that after all this, they proceeded to Philip Enos's,
about 3 miles from Smith's where they made prisoner a lad
about 13 years of age who afterwards escaped from them.
The number of Indians that did this mischief is said not to
exceed 9, who spoke English and some Dutch. The quantity
of grain destroyed is thought not less than 2000
bushels, and the condition of the inhabitants is most
melancholy, there being in several houses not less than
30 or 40 children, besides men and women, and all obliged
to fly for their lives without being able to bring off
any thing for their support.
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Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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