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LeyLana1462
Colonial Settler
Australia
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 Posted - June 22 2006 : 10:09:20 AM
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We all agree that we love LOTM but I'm just curious if there is anything that anyone disliked or it just didn't sit right with you.
For me it would have to have been the under the falls scene.
I don't know but it just didn't seem to flow for me.
I mean where Nathaniel says "No matter what.....etc etc" up until he jumps. I realise he would probably have had to yell even for the mics but everytime I see that bit I get this reall 'urgh' sort of feeling because it just feels so overacted.
I am totally and completely in love with this movie and love that he pledges he will find her but it almost felt soap opera-ish........ hmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Okay, WW, can I borrow a blind fold now please........    
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
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 Posted - June 22 2006 : 1:59:38 PM
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Well it never seemed right to me that they just took off and left the girls there pretty much helpless. I know they give their reasons why they are leaving but Nathaniel does say "if they don't kill you" so there must have been the possibility in the back of his mind that they could be killed right there and then. He loved Cora so how could he just leave her.
Another thing is the lack of interaction between Uncas and Alice. Just did not seem right that he would do what he did at the end for a girl he barely had spoken to. Had they left in the scene under the falls between them it would have explained why and at least shown they "spoke" to each other.
Also, from what we saw of Duncan thus far into the movie, I doubt he would have "sacrificed" himself so easily for Cora. That never sat right with me. In real life I just don't see him doing that. He would have let Hawkeye go to be roasted. He knew he had no chance with Cora so he would not have given up his life for hers. He would have gotten out of that scrape and gone back to jolly old England eventually.
There you have it guys.
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nekutmeqwanoc
Pathfinder
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Posted - June 22 2006 : 2:40:09 PM
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| yeah really.duncan seemed like a prick so i think hawkeye would be dead and end of movie lol.i do see why uncas was holding alice,he loved her and may not have seen her again.but if they were sooo much in love with them then why would they leave them?they couldnt have kept moving?yeah night was coming but oh well.they didnt seem to have a problem walking in the dark a couple scenes before.they didnt have powder but they didnt have to go under the falls either lol,so the powder would have stayed dry.uncas and hawkeye seemed to be pretty good shots so they could have sniped a huron or two out and kept moving and did it again while chingy took the girls and duncan to a town.was the falls scene in the book? |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 22 2006 : 7:35:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
Well it never seemed right to me that they just took off and left the girls there pretty much helpless. I know they give their reasons why they are leaving but Nathaniel does say "if they don't kill you" so there must have been the possibility in the back of his mind that they could be killed right there and then. He loved Cora so how could he just leave her.
Another thing is the lack of interaction between Uncas and Alice. Just did not seem right that he would do what he did at the end for a girl he barely had spoken to. Had they left in the scene under the falls between them it would have explained why and at least shown they "spoke" to each other.
Also, from what we saw of Duncan thus far into the movie, I doubt he would have "sacrificed" himself so easily for Cora. That never sat right with me. In real life I just don't see him doing that. He would have let Hawkeye go to be roasted. He knew he had no chance with Cora so he would not have given up his life for hers. He would have gotten out of that scrape and gone back to jolly old England eventually.
There you have it guys.
As usual I totally agree with you Irishgirl. It seemed wrong to me the first time I watched LOTM that the guys left the helpless women and run away, knowing that they were in grave danger. I actually started the thread just before I got registered, with the question why the women were left behind under the falls, and we had a small discusion about it some time ago. That just seemed so wrong, especially after Hawkeye made such a big deal out of it - what Leylana mentioned above. As if he was trying to justify his departure by his readiness to help her later on.
Nekutmeqwanoc rightly wrote about other options they seemed to have instead of putting themselves in such a risky position under the falls.
Regarding Duncan, it would have been much more likely that he would have let his rival and opponent Hawkeye roast in tha real life. His sudden sacrifice was almost "too noble to be true".
And of course almost complete lack of interaction between Uncas and Alice created quite a few problems for the storyline.. |
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zinvor
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Armenia
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Posted - June 24 2006 : 08:11:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
I mean where Nathaniel says "No matter what.....etc etc" up until he jumps. I realise he would probably have had to yell even for the mics but everytime I see that bit I get this reall 'urgh' sort of feeling because it just feels so overacted.
I totally agree. What Hawkeye says has too much pathos. No matter what I'l find you and so on - i think that's not exactly what a woman like Cora might have expected from him.
I mean I'd prefer my man to protect me till the end instead of asking me to submit to the enemies! not very nice...
As fot the lack of interaction between Unkas and Alice I do agree except for I wouldn't want to see them making love or even kiss.
And I like the way Duncan died. I agree with Irishgirl and nekutmegwanoc. I think you are right to say that love wasn't enough reason for him to sacrifice himself. but still I think it was his way to outdo Nathaniel. He just couldn't stand the idea of Nathaniel dying like a hero and saving Cora's life.
And I really don't like Hawkeye's phrase "Someday you and I are going to have serious disagreement". Don't know why but I think he'd better say something else. |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - June 27 2006 : 4:26:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zinvor
... I'd prefer my man to protect me till the end...
But don't you see? That is exactly what he was doing! He was protecting her in the only way he could see that had even a remote possibility of being successful.
As far as the "pathos", as you say, he had only a few, very brief moments to let her know his plan. He spoke with extreme intensity, loudly over the noise of the water, in his efforts to make certain she understood that he was not deserting her and what she should do to have the greatest chances of surviving her captivity.
I think this scene is one of the most intensely moving scenes in the whole movie. I love it. |
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MeggieD
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Posted - June 27 2006 : 4:30:40 PM
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| I agree with WW I love the waterfall scene. |
Uncas: "some food" |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 28 2006 : 05:31:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
But don't you see? That is exactly what he was doing! As far as the "pathos", as you say, he had only a few, very brief moments to let her know his plan. He spoke with extreme intensity.
He had reasons, that's true. In those circumstances that was the only right thing to do to try to save her. Of course he was not a coward and was ready to die for her and he proved it more than once. But there's something wrong with it, i just can't help it.
As for Nathaniel's little speech I do understand why you (and many many others) love it. But for me such words sound strange. I think he's overacting. If he was going to follow her as soon as possible there was no need for his tirade. I'd be more impressed and affected if he spoke less pompous and tumid. |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 28 2006 : 6:02:13 PM
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Hawkeye's emotional manner of speaking would have been understandable and moving if we knew for sure that what he was about to do was the only possible option, but - contrary to WW's opinion - his taking off just somehow doesn't seem right to me.. 
Well, I might be wrong here.. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - June 28 2006 : 6:37:50 PM
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| The first time I saw LOTM I thought the sceen was great. But each time I have seen it since it seems more overacted and a little strange. Isn't the hero supposed to die for the women he loves? Or something like that? Fight to the last breath? But it sort of comes off like "Well, Cora, old girl, we had a good thing back at Fort WH, but I suddenly remembered that we are supposed to be heading west to Can-tuck-ee, and I really wish you could go with us, but we gotta make this jump through the waterfall, and we will probably be killed anyway, so why don't you just go with Magua and his boys, and if you are real nice to them, maybe they won't do a whole lot to you and Alice. Don't know about Duncan and Soldier #2, though." |
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Stephanie
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Posted - June 28 2006 : 9:50:00 PM
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Fitz,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the first time you saw it , that scene was okay. Movies aren't meant to be watched hundreds of times over and over and scrutinized in the way we have done. What seems trite and overacted to us is perhaps OUR fault for watching it too many times. But the first time or two you see it... gosh, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 29 2006 : 3:00:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie
Fitz,
Movies aren't meant to be watched hundreds of times over and over and scrutinized in the way we have done. But the first time or two you see it... gosh, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie
Hmm, I haven't... It did seem strange to me from the very first time and still does. Although I can't say I didn't like the scene at all. I always thought it was great. |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - June 29 2006 : 4:18:38 PM
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| Well I just love this scene under the Falls. The way Nathaniel looks at Cora and says "stay alive, no matter what occurs, I will find you". Just beautiful and then he leaps into the waterfall. What a stunning and beautiful moment. I am with you Stephanie in that we can all dream about that happening to us although in my case it would be Uncas saying the words and not Nathaniel. |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 29 2006 : 8:55:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie
, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie
Yeah..
I wonder what is the feeling of being looked at in this way by that special man, while not knowing if one will live through the next 5 minutes.. But instead knowing that the dream guy will not be there to find out..  |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 29 2006 : 9:05:19 PM
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And look how understanding Cora is, saying: "You try. With all you have. To save yourself. If the worst happens, and only one of us survives, something of the other does, too ." She doesn't mind him deserting her at all. What an attitude - she is not concerned about her own fate but about his survival. Is that what we call TRUE LOVE?? |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - June 30 2006 : 1:08:14 PM
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| I agree Raindrops she is more concerned about his welfare than her own and tells him to go. She does not want any harm to come to him. She is definitely in LOVE with Nathaniel. I wonder did Uncas say goodbye to Alice and they just cut that part out, probably as it would seem so cold especially if they just were intimate, for him to just go without saying anything. |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 30 2006 : 5:48:44 PM
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| Guess what, Irishgirl.. Whatever Uncas wanted to communicate to Alice before the take off, he did it with, ehm... looks not words again.. (that's according to the script). |
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LeyLana1462
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Posted - July 03 2006 : 5:59:51 PM
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I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the Love etc behind what was being said but it is the way that DDL says it that gets to me, not so much the lines.
It felt forced.
Maybe it's hard to act 'sincere' when you have mega tonnes of water crashing down around you and you have to scream to be heard, even by boom mics |
They are all there, but one.
I, Chingachgook, Last of the Mohicans. |
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Lady of Glencairn
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 06:53:13 AM
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| I agree Leylana ... I too have felt for some time that the waterfall scene was a tad 'forced'. I also somehow cant understand why he would just leave them there ... considering that ANYTHING could happen to them. |
Lady of Glencairn
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LeyLana1462
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 07:54:00 AM
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| That's right. Going on other scenes throughout I would have expected for Uncas to have grabbed Alice's hand and jumped and Nathaniel grab Cora's???????? |
They are all there, but one.
I, Chingachgook, Last of the Mohicans. |
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Lady of Glencairn
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 08:19:52 AM
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| That thought occured to me. Why couldnt they just have all jumped together? Or was there the fear that the women wouldnt survive that jump? |
Lady of Glencairn
"Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence" - H.L. Mencken |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 09:25:02 AM
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| If you check the board Lady there was a whole other thread that discussed just that subject, why they jumped and left the girls there. It was decided that they were experienced outdoorsmen and that jump was treacherous enough for them to do and survive. The girls would never have survived the jump, probably drowning if the jump itself did not kill them. Can you really imagine Alice doing that? I can't. |
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Lady of Glencairn
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 09:40:42 AM
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| Hmmm ... no, cant imagine Alice doing that. Oh well, in the end things panned out as planned ... well, almost (minus Alice and Uncas death). And its not as if that scene makes the movie awful ... on the contrary, its a favourite of many. |
Lady of Glencairn
"Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence" - H.L. Mencken |
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raindrops
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Posted - July 07 2006 : 10:26:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the Love etc behind what was being said but it is the way that DDL says it that gets to me, not so much the lines.
It felt forced.
Maybe it's hard to act 'sincere' when you have mega tonnes of water crashing down around you and you have to scream to be heard, even by boom mics
I just wonder LeyLana - is under the falls the only scene where you find DDL's acting not very convincing and natural? I believe he spoke in similar manner on more occasions in LOTM, for example when he insisted that the bodies of his friends at Camerons' cabin were to be left unmoved.. I could never make my mind up whether the way he spoke was forced or very natural for someone who is extremely upset but does not want to let it show.. I would come to different conclusions at different times. Maybe it's DDL's acting technique..? |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - July 09 2006 : 8:55:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by raindrops
...when he insisted that the bodies of his friends at Camerons' cabin were to be left unmoved.. I could never make my mind up whether the way he spoke was forced or very natural for someone who is extremely upset but does not want to let it show..
I have always thought that he spoke very deliberately, with a tightly controlled anger. In other words, deep inside he was very upset and angry at what had happened to the Camerons. He was also angry that he had to take the time to try to explain his reasoning to a woman who was strange to the ways of the wilderness and who was attempting to give him a difficult time about his decision. He was talking to Cora almost through clenched teeth in an effort to remain calm, yet in command of the situation.
I thought it was a fine piece of acting. |
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LeyLana1462
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Posted - July 10 2006 : 02:16:57 AM
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Hey Raindrops, how's it goin?
Yeah, I agree with WW here. At Cameron's cabin you could see the pain and anger welling up within him.....I felt his pain there.
But, under the waterfall when he is yelling at Cora, for me personally, it almost feels as if he's had a s...t of a day, he's wet tired probably got a headache from the producers constantly saying cut etc and just threw the lines out, do you know what I mean???? It's really hard when you're typing things to sort of put it how it sits in your mind
I think for me it felt like the lines where he says "no matter what happens, just stay alive, you hear me, just stay alive, I will find you, no matter what I will find you".......or something like that. It was a loving gesture on his part but didn't feel right.
I'm thinking to myself, what, you think she's just going to suddenly drop her bundle and kill herself????, she's a strong woman who has already endured quite a bit.
For me it just felt as if that tiny part of the movie didn't flow.
But definitely not Cameron's cabin, that was pain and anger in his voice and face.
Not only that but Now I don't want to get political here because this isn't the place for it buuuuuttttt........ She was thinking as a Christian person, they at least deserve a Christian burial etc. .... someone may be able to help me here but I'm not sure that the Native Indians would have all been Christian in those times, they had their own Spiritual beliefs. He would have been thinking more on a practical level, he knew what moving the bodies would do, where as Cora and her friends were thinking as Christians and that was her arguement. |
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