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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
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 Posted - August 22 2007 : 6:36:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by angicx
Young and frightened, she had no reason to jump if she wasn't distraught over Uncas. You can see it when it's clear he's loosing the battle with Magua and she pulls away from her captors and starts to cry, even before he goes over the cliff. She would have no reason to think that there wasn't a chance that the others still might be able to save her. I think she would have held out for that if she hadn't been agonizing over the loss of her short but intensely developed love for Uncas.
I'm still skeptical when it comes to talking about "love" between Uncas and Alice. 
They share some longing looks, but it's a long way from looking at somebody to being in love.
I think Alice's suicide has more to do with her being "young and frightened" than with her being in love with Uncas. He was the only one who showed any interest in protecting her specifically; everybody else was too busy fighting over Cora.
And I think it's very possible that Alice thought that no one would come to save her: when the sisters are separated in the Huron village, Alice calls (quite pathetically), "Cora?". Cora responds but Hawkeye physically pulls her in the opposite direction. Young, frightened, and completely traumatized by everything she's been through, Alice just might think that her sister is being made to give up on her. (Duncan just got sent to the fire as part of the "deal" with the Hurons, so who's to say anyone is coming for her?) So when Uncas rushes in, he's sort of a light from the darkness, the only one (as far as Alice knows) who IS, in fact, coming to help her.
When Uncas dies, Hawkeye, Cora, and Ching are still MIA, and Alice has just been forced to witness the death of the one person who looked to be coming to help her. I think she feels lost and frightened, in addition to devastated by the fact that her sister seems to have abandoned her. Magua's bloody hand is certainly no comfort, and she probably envisions a similar fate for herself . . . so she jumps.
Not that I'm saying the "love" theories are wrong or invalid. I just prefer to think that Alice's jump is her single act of defiance in the whole movie. She realizes, in that very moment on the cliff's edge, that her death is the one thing she has control over. Her protector has just died, Duncan has been burned, who knows where Hawkeye dragged Cora off to or if they're coming back, and what's Magua going to do to her? The only way Alice can thwart whatever plans Magua has in store for her is to take the plunge herself.
Now, does anyone else think that this whole tragic ending could've been avoided if Hawkeye had just said "Hold on, we're coming" when Alice cried out for Cora in the Huron village? Seems simple to me!  |
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angicx
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 21 2007
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 8:04:03 PM
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I understand and appreciate what your saying Red, but I still say the truth is in the eye's and body language 
(although I agree with you about the defiance in her eyes... I just think it's there for a different reason )
The following sums it all up well...
quote:
Originally posted by Lurking Huron0901
I have watched LOTM many times. I am touched by the love between Hwakeye and Cora, but the subtle love story between Uncas and Alice has always been my favorite part of the movie. The scene when Uncas and Alice die always moves me to tears. To me, Alice's jumping off the cliff is a bold statement of her love for Uncas. Although the movie hugely underplays their romance, I can still feel the strong bond between the two. I do believe that Alice loves Uncas because of two scenes. One is in the cave when Uncas pulls Alice back from the fall and holds her and rocks her, you can see Alice's hand embrace Uncas tightly -- a sign that she likes him. The other scene is when Uncas got wounded and then killed by Magua, the expresssions on Alice's face show shock, concern, pain. and then silent grief. To me, it shows the pain of losing someone she loves, rather than the lost of hope in being rescued.
Originally posted by Lurking Huron0943
I think that Alice jumped because she loved Uncas.
She would rather join him in death than live alone.
At first, she was grief stricken by Uncas's death and didn't know what to do, then she looked down at Uncas and decided to join him. When she had made her decision, she regained her strength and peace. So she looked Magua in the eyes,
ignored his gesture of mercy and then threw herself off the cliff calmly. I also think that the brief shot of Uncas and Alice lying side by side at the bottom of the cliff is a strong hint of the reason for Alice's jump --- to be with Uncas.
and I definately agree with you here 
quote:
Now, does anyone else think that this whole tragic ending could've been avoided if Hawkeye had just said "Hold on, we're coming" when Alice cried out for Cora in the Huron village? Seems simple to me!
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 13 2007
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 8:08:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
I'm still skeptical when it comes to talking about "love" between Uncas and Alice.
They share some longing looks, but it's a long way from looking at somebody to being in love.
I agree with you, Red, looking isn't loving. But, it seems clear to me that Alice is supposed to be a teenager. Maybe 18, maybe younger. Some teenagers think they can, and do, fall in love in an instant. It's maturity that makes us wise to what love really is. So, maybe she thought she was in love. It only took Cora a few days to fall in love with Hawkeye, after all.
Now, Uncas clearly isn't as young, but my dad was 26 when he met my mom and he fell hard, instantly, he has told me. So, anything's possible. I guess I'm a romantic. . .I like to believe it was "love", even if it's not a mature love. |
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Last of the dustbunnies
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2007
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Posted - August 22 2007 : 11:37:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
Why Miss Bookworm! You are really ready to stand in front of the firing squad, aren't you? Got your blindfold on? 'Cause I hear the muskets being primed and loaded!
To answer your very brave question... Yes. I'm here. And I will join you in front of the firing squad any day. And just before the muskets are fired, I will say yet again: "There was no romance. Uncas was in love with Alice. Alice was not in love with Uncas."
Now................DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Rich, where's the smiley aiming a musket at an innocent person?]
shes right you know! **bang bang**  |
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
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Posted - August 23 2007 : 09:00:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by angicx
. . . I still say the truth is in the eye's and body language
Alice's eyes and body language are very powerful, but I see only overwhelming despair in them. I think there may be a hint of guilt there too: when Uncas rushes up to save her and is quickly dispatched, she could easily feel like his death was all her fault. When Magua pushes Uncas's body off the cliff, that's the last straw for Alice. She hits her breaking point.
quote:
Originally posted by Last of the dustbunnies
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
. . . just before the muskets are fired, I will say yet again: "There was no romance. Uncas was in love with Alice. Alice was not in love with Uncas."
Now................DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Rich, where's the smiley aiming a musket at an innocent person?]
shes right you know! **bang bang**
And so I join you in front of the firing squad, WW and Dustbunnies! Here we go. . . 
I think Alice was curious and maybe a little excited (I don't mean in that way!) by Uncas, but not in love with him. In all her sheltered naivety, she is thrilled at the prospect of an "adventure" and seeing "the red men." When one of said "red" men makes googley eyes at her, I think she is intrigued, like first-crush feelings, but ultimately just too British (for lack of a better word) to be all-out in love with him. Cora adapts to her surroundings and shows that she can function outside of polite society, so her feelings for Hawkeye are believable. Alice clearly can't hack it in the violent, chaotic world of the American frontier, and thinks only of the "comforts" of the fort as she is being helped through the forest by . . . Duncan, not Uncas. I just don't think a relationship between her and Uncas would be believable. Her world is too structured. She can't really "think outside the box" of society, so I don't think she'd really fall for Uncas.
And as for Uncas---maybe he fell for Alice. Or maybe he just saw her as another, younger version of Alexandra Cameron. Up to this point, he's been quite content to let others help her: she leans on Duncan's arm in the forest, and Ching rescues her from the ambush after the fort's surrender. When Magua and crew are leading her away from the Huron village, it looks, for the first time, like she might be headed to her death. So Uncas rushes to save her to make amends for the fact that he couldn't save Mrs. Cameron. In that case, he's not really in love, per se, but acting on a protective instinct out of feelings of pity and concern. But not love.
Now fire away. I'm ready. 
And I love playing devil's advocate. Heh heh heh.  |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - August 23 2007 : 09:51:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
And so I join you in front of the firing squad, WW and Dustbunnies!
Welcome! The more, the... er... merrier... sort of.
You know, we are never going to convince them! It will just have to be enough knowing in our hearts and minds that we are right! 
[Look out! They're raising their muskets!!] |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 16 2006
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Posted - August 23 2007 : 10:03:09 PM
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| RE: Alice & Uncas -- they are both dead!! Get over it!! |
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angicx
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 21 2007
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Posted - August 24 2007 : 5:50:28 PM
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I don't wanna... 
I agree it may be possible guys, but, as I've said before, love at first sight (or in moments/days after) is possible, as it happened to me, and sometimes it goes beyond all reason, good or bad. It does happen.
I'm not mad tho, and I don't even own a musket. Now I DO have swords |
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blackfootblood
Devoted Tribal Member
USA
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May 22 2007
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Posted - August 24 2007 : 9:54:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
RE: Alice & Uncas -- they are both dead!! Get over it!!
Oh, ouch, obi!! I think that earned you a mudpit time-out!  |
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!"
"Live well, love much, laugh often!" |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - August 24 2007 : 10:28:25 PM
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I'm in the "Lust not Love" gang too.
Sorry gals. Do I get a blindfold and cigar? |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Uncas and Alice: A Contrary Opinion
