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Mountain Man
Colonial Settler
USA
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 Posted - March 09 2006 : 10:27:04 PM
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At the burial ground scene we see the Ottawa war party come to a stop and retreat because they are approaching a sacred burial site. Obviously it isn’t an Ottawa burial ground since they would not enter into it...and I am not sure if it is Mohican because upon entering, Chingachgook and the others avoid stepping on the grass and cross to the other side of it. So to what Indian tribe did this burial ground belong to? Any thoughts? I would guess Mohican...but I'm not sure.
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Magua said, understand English very well. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 12:05:51 AM
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| I believe the plains Indians burried their dead in this manner. The eastern tribes did not. |
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 05:47:59 AM
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While not contending to be an Indian expert...I believe the plains Indians were to the west of the Mississippi river. Would they have had burial grounds that far east?  |
Magua said, understand English very well. |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 05:52:56 AM
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Could have been from the Great Lakes area.Pontiac was believed to have been at Ft.William Henry as well as Braddock's Defeat.There were also Sioux at Braddock's Defeat so it entirely likely that they would have accompanied the Ottowa to Ft.William Henry. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 08:23:16 AM
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quote:
While not contending to be an Indian expert...I believe the plains Indians were to the west of the Mississippi river. Would they have had burial grounds that far east?
No. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 7:09:09 PM
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From what I gather then... the Plains Indians were the only ones who practiced above ground burials (if this indeed is a fact), but yet they would not have had burial grounds as far east as Albany. This then leads back to my original question...to what Indian tribe did the burial ground belong to in The BURIAL GROUND scene.
quote:
Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams
quote:
While not contending to be an Indian expert...I believe the plains Indians were to the west of the Mississippi river. Would they have had burial grounds that far east?
No.
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Magua said, understand English very well. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - March 10 2006 : 10:03:41 PM
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| Well, since they were between Albany and Lake George (Lac Sacrement), they would have been in the lands of the Iroquois, so perhaps Mohawk? As far as I know, the Mohawk did not inter their dead in this manner, so it is a fantasy created to provide a visual effect for the scene. Whether or not an Ottawa would have been intimidated by a Mohawk burial is another thing. They certainly weren't intimidated by British burials after the fall of Fort William Henry, and paid the price for it. |
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 11 2006 : 07:30:00 AM
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| Thank you Fitzhugh for your comments on this subject. After what has been said here, I too would have to conclude, that it was (as you said) a fantasy created for visual effect of the scene. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - March 11 2006 : 6:40:41 PM
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| I guess one really needs to think like a director. You have put these people in a tight spot, and you have to get them out. You don't really want to put another battle scene in at this point because it would get in the way of the budding relationship between Cora and Hawkeye. But you also want to insert some real danger into it so you can see Cora's reaction. She is ready to fight along side Hawkeye. Now, to get them out of it. The Ottawa need something they can see, and something that will relate to the audience as being (1) culturally Native American, and (2) scary in nature. The raised burial really serves the purpose. I can't think of anything that would have been better. Correct? No. Good? YES! I guess that's one more reason why Michael Mann is a director and I am not. |
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Highlander
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Posted - March 11 2006 : 7:44:56 PM
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| The Sioux were plains Indians. |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
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Posted - March 11 2006 : 9:07:15 PM
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| ........and the first lawyer Indians, too. |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
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'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
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Seamus
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 12 2006 : 07:42:33 AM
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I agree. One would be hard pressed to come up with another scenario that would have worked better or conveyed that kind of emotion in that scene. It was well done. Another movie I found that uses a sacred burial ground to such a purpose is “Jeremiah Johnson”. As Robert Redford leads a column of soldiers thru a Crow sacred burial ground, one gets the same kind of scary feeling. Indeed, you feel as if you are there. Anyone who is a fan of Last of the Mohicans, may want to check this movie out. I highly recommend it.quote:
Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams
The Ottawa need something they can see, and something that will relate to the audience as being (1) culturally Native American, and (2) scary in nature. The raised burial really serves the purpose. I can't think of anything that would have been better. Correct? No. Good? YES! I
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alikws
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Posted - March 13 2006 : 4:41:47 PM
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| I feel it was a directors call, an eastern woodlands burial ground does not look like much as all, often an east/west valley with piles of stones... a plains scaffold is much more obvious without explanation, although wrong for the area |
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paazau
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Posted - March 14 2006 : 6:38:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man
<<snip>> Anyone who is a fan of Last of the Mohicans, may want to check this movie out. I highly recommend it.
Hi Mountain Man. I'm new in these parts, and might I say enjoying the site immensely! Kudos to all those responsible.
One question about the movie you recomment: Is Eric (uncas) in it?? 
On a more serious note, the burial ground scene, I feel, plays a very important part in the movie, giving Cora and Nathaniel a chance to learn more of the other's lives and views. It may not be historically or geographically correct, but as alikws says, it is obvious what it is. |
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 14 2006 : 8:32:40 PM
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Eric Schweig is not in “Jeremiah Johnson”. You get Robert Redford instead. quote:
Originally posted by paazau
[quote][i]
One question about the movie you recomment: Is Eric (uncas) in it??
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
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Posted - March 14 2006 : 11:36:17 PM
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| If only Eric was in it us Uncas ladies would be storming the video stores to get it. Mr Redford could not hold a candle to Eric in the looks department even in his younger, handsomer days. A lot of us ladies out here just love the whole package that is Uncas/Eric. No one could compete with this dark, handsome, sexy Indian actor who portrayed Uncas so well. |
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 15 2006 : 4:45:27 PM
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WAIT A MINUTE! How did the subject go from burial grounds to Unca? Oh, yeah . . . I mentioned another male actor in a movie. I should have seen that one coming a mile away. Walks away shaking his head  |
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Highlander
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Posted - March 15 2006 : 7:42:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by paazau
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man
<<snip>> Anyone who is a fan of Last of the Mohicans, may want to check this movie out. I highly recommend it.
Hi Mountain Man. I'm new in these parts, and might I say enjoying the site immensely! Kudos to all those responsible.
One question about the movie you recomment: Is Eric (uncas) in it??
On a more serious note, the burial ground scene, I feel, plays a very important part in the movie, giving Cora and Nathaniel a chance to learn more of the other's lives and views. It may not be historically or geographically correct, but as alikws says, it is obvious what it is.
Eric is not in "Jeremiah Johnson",but he IS in "Follow The River".Available from www.amazon.com |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - March 17 2006 : 11:12:53 PM
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| I just watched Follow the River and what can I say except a must for any Eric Schweig fans. Looking hot ladies and you wanna hear the best part, shirtless for the whole movie. I had seen this years ago but Highlander you brought it back to mind and had to see it again. Don't want to spoil the story for those of you who have not seen it and may want to but if he came to my house to abduct me and take me away for his wife I would certainly not complain. Definitely worth seeing. |
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paazau
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Posted - March 18 2006 : 04:53:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man
Eric Schweig is not in “Jeremiah Johnson”. You get Robert Redford instead.
Thanks for the info MM but no thanks. Since I've seen Eric as Uncas  no other actor comes close to his status in my eyes. They might as well all stop workin' cause I won't go see their movies.
quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
I just watched Follow the River and what can I say except a must for any Eric Schweig fans. Looking hot ladies and you wanna hear the best part, shirtless for the whole movie. <snip> but if he came to my house to abduct me and take me away for his wife I would certainly not complain. Definitely worth seeing.
Thanks for the tip Irishgirl. I'll be gettin' that one (before Big Eden I think!) and havin' an "ES" weekend!!!  
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Eric is not in "Jeremiah Johnson",but he IS in "Follow The River".
And thanks for the tip Highlander.  You're not hopin' to keep us Uncas girls busy watchin' Eric's movies and off the board are ya?? 
Shaz |
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Bookworm
Colonial Militia
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Posted - March 19 2006 : 2:25:01 PM
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Nice comparison with Jeremiah Johnson, Mountain Man! That's one of my favorite movies. (Remember, Seamus, in the days before video, when everyone we knew seemed to watch Jeremiah Johnson every time it was shown on TV?) That burial ground scene was indeed chilling, and not only because of the miserable weather, but also
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
because upon seeing it you began to fear that an awful retribution was going to be visited upon Jeremiah, and no matter how hard you wished for it to be otherwise, you couldn't change what was coming. |
Bookworm
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paazau
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Posted - April 22 2006 : 02:34:27 AM
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The book I just finished about Red Cloud has some interesting information in it regarding the Sioux’ territories. You recall Highlander said the burial ground could be Sioux... Well, according to the book, Sioux were that far east. The great Siouan family consisted of "Dakotas, Crows, Poncas, Osages, Kaws, Quapaw, Otoes, Biloxi and Catauba plus many other tribes". The Sioux had a strip of territory “extending through the Carolinas and Virginia into Maryland as far as the Potomac River”. That may not be as far north as our party was, but elsewhere in the book it talks of a raid that Red Cloud went on that was far from their camp; when one of their party was killed they “buried him in a tree” and continued on their way home. If a band of Sioux had been out hunting or raiding and were being pursued, they most likely wouldn’t bother to take their dead comrade with them, rather they would bury him where they could.
Shed any new light on it for you Mt Man? |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - April 22 2006 : 10:42:07 AM
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| I think you may be referencing the Catawba tribe located in the Carolinas. They quickly became assimilated into the English culture and even served with the English in military actions. It was said that the only way to tell a Catawba was that he was dressed better than you. I do not think that the customs of the plains Indians would have extended to the Carolinas. |
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paazau
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Posted - April 22 2006 : 5:55:24 PM
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| Hmm interesting info about the Catawba, Fitzhugh. Thanks for that. As I always say "you learn something new every day". I wasn't sure (not being knowledgeable about tribes and customs at all), but just thought I'd throw it out there as a possibility.... |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - April 22 2006 : 7:07:28 PM
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| I do a lot of Rev War reenacting. There are a some of guys that want to do an Indian impression and also go to the Rev War events. They always look for some documentation of Indians fighting with either the British or Colonials in the South and all they ever come up with is the Catawba. Then the problem becomes that the Catawba didn't dress or act like the reenactors wish they did. So if they call themselves a Catawba and fall in with a unit, and do it correctly, they look no different that anyone else. But there is a group of Seminoles that show up everywhere. Of course they aren't correct being there, but they are such a hoot that nobody cares. Craziest bunch of Indians I have ever seen. I had the pleasure of fighting with them against the French at Fort Toulouse, and that was quite an experience. Not that fighting against the French was a pleasure, only that fighting with the Seminoles was. |
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paazau
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Posted - April 22 2006 : 11:21:50 PM
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That'd be interesting stuff to see, reenacting. I can only recall ever seeing tiny things, one or two people doing demonstrations. Full-scale fighting would be awesome! Sounds like the Seminoles provide alot of entertainment for everybody. Good on 'em!  If ya ain't havin' fun, no point in doin' it! |
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Burial ground scene.
