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angel4uncas
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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 Posted - January 03 2006 : 01:08:55 AM
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I'm new to the board and tried to see if this has already been a topic. I didn't find it but I apologize if this has already been discussed.
I was wondering what the significance, if any, is of the braid Alice sports after the waterfall scene. Being a huge fan of the Alice/Uncas relationship, I personally like to believe it pertains to the kiss they shared in the waterfall that was filmed but not added to the movie. (I think it should have been!!!) In fact the first time the braid appears is when Alice is being tied up by one of the Huron Indians in the waterfall cave which occurs almost right after that deleted scene. Anyway I like to think the missing footage explains it. Of course I could be completely wrong and would love to hear other interpretations.
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Lurking Huron6172
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 Posted - January 03 2006 : 10:33:28 AM
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Hello angel4uncas . Welcome to the board. You'll find (if you haven't already) a lot of Uncas lovers. I happen to be one of them! 
Anyway, once you mentioned the braid I realized I didn't see it in the exiting of the fort, but I do recall seeing it at the massacre. I'll go back a watch it again just be sure. Not that I mind doing that!
I wonder though if it was an editing error or if, like you said, something that occured in the cut footage. Very interesting!
By the way I thought the braid in the cliff seen was one of the extra touches that added to it's dramatic end.
A good friend of mine fell in  with Alice at that scene and got mad at me for insisting he watch it when she jumped !LOL |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - January 03 2006 : 10:34:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lurking Huron6172
Hello angel4uncas. Welcome to the board. You'll find (if you haven't already) a lot of Uncas lovers. I happen to be one of them!
Anyway, once you mentioned the braid I realized I didn't see it in the exiting of the fort, but I do recall seeing it at the massacre. I'll go back a watch it again just be sure. Not that I mind doing that!
I wonder though if it was an editing error or if, like you said, something that occured in the cut footage. Very interesting!
By the way I thought the braid in the cliff seen was one of the extra touches that added to it's dramatic end.
A good friend of mine fell in with Alice at that scene and got mad at me for insisting he watch it when she jumped!LOL
OOPS! That was me! I do this all the time! Sorry |
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vexus
Lost in the Wilderness
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Posted - January 04 2006 : 1:07:29 PM
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| I watched LOTM last night and I did see the braid after she was captured by Magua and his men. I thought it was a very sweet moment that she added the braid after her and Uncas were together. |
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Dark Woods
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Lurking Huron5873
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Posted - January 07 2006 : 11:20:19 PM
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Jodhi with her braid. That is a great pic. I noted you linked to www.jodhimaydomain.us
I highly recommend this site to all Jodhi fans. If you liked her as Alice, you'll be amazed at the amount of information about Jodhi at this site. |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - January 09 2006 : 11:51:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vexus
I watched LOTM last night and I did see the braid after she was captured by Magua and his men. I thought it was a very sweet moment that she added the braid after her and Uncas were together.
And who said Alice did the braid? (Don't take that offensivley, Vexus, just a little bit of fun!!)
Uncas may have done it!
Besides Uncas doing it adds much more to the imagination!
Ya' know what I'm saying...Heh-heh ! |
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Dark Woods
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Posted - January 10 2006 : 2:44:07 PM
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Thank you Lurking Huron for reminding me to visit the Jodhi May site. I note that in the "Other Bolyene Girl" she again plays the younger of a pair of sisters. I will always think first of Johi as Alice in LOTM.
Getting back to the braid, I agree with LOTM that Uncas may well have done it! |
We become what we think about. |
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jlee
Pathfinder
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 Posted - January 10 2006 : 7:44:45 PM
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| that's interesting... i've never thought about it like that... i've always thought it was just braided while her hair was up, so then when it came out, the braid was the only remnents left of what had been put up. I like your eplanation better, though! |
It has come to us at last. |
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Stephanie
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Posted - January 10 2006 : 7:54:25 PM
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| I never thought of Uncas doing the braid, but after all, he's the one who made the "Tight weave" comment at the fort! |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - January 11 2006 : 11:40:21 AM
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| I don't know about the rest of ya' (actually I think I do) but Uncas can braid my hair anytime! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
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Posted - February 14 2006 : 1:37:34 PM
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| Oh boy, Uncas could do more than braid my hair. I just thought it was a flaw in the movie. She had no braid in her hair and then on the cliffside it magically appears. When did she have time to braid her hair between the confrontation in the Indian Village and going to the cliffside. Me thinks maybe Magua did it he he. |
IG |
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qasimoto
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Posted - February 15 2006 : 03:14:18 AM
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I don't think Dark Woods and I realized this forum existed, we were discussing Alice's braids in the forum "Why did Alice jump?"
For much more on Alice's braids, probably too much, including a calculation of Alice's braid's tensile strength (enough to hold a Panzer tank, for crying out loud) and useage of said braids for ARM's (Alice Retrieval Means) and recoil starters for her safety retrieval line, please see about the last third of that forum. Sure it's nuts, but we're engineers and that's our mission in life--to be nuts enough to design vehicles that no sane person would EVER go up in. But, every now and again, they do find a few. You may call them "Space Shuttles", we call them "Space Schleffels" and wonder why they don't just go out and buy a good Panzer or Tiger instead. And every time they do go up in those obsolete deathtraps for no really good reason at all, we hope that they have a safe return so "Nasa" doesn't have to again mean "Now Accepting Seven Applicants". But, I digress.
But, those braids apparently came about during an Uncas scene that was perhaps cut and so are hence just there after the cave scene. They look nice, she looks great in them, Dark Woods and I have joked about various engineering applications of them but we were just kidding, they are simply very nice braids on a very nice-looking young gal who unfortunately dies in the firm.
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Lurking Huron0888
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Posted - February 15 2006 : 08:23:26 AM
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| i think that this was a fantastic movie...the way alice's braid resembled the way she had always had love for Uncas was amazing...Alice's braid should be in a musuem...it was great, great book |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - February 16 2006 : 12:00:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
Oh boy, Uncas could do more than braid my hair. I just thought it was a flaw in the movie. She had no braid in her hair and then on the cliffside it magically appears. When did she have time to braid her hair between the confrontation in the Indian Village and going to the cliffside. Me thinks maybe Magua did it he he.
The magically appearing braid and the magically appearing injury Uncas had at the fort. Daggonit, they always cut scenes and leave editing errors.
I remember catching sight of the braid as they were being led to Huron Land. |
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qasimoto
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Posted - February 16 2006 : 11:27:59 PM
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No. Not at all. Nyet & nada. And the braid just looks like it appears magically. I'm surprised you didn't know about that!
Let me break it you gently. Some girls, when they're suddenly frightened, toss their heads a certain way, and voila! The Braid of Death appears, instantly, with no muss or fuss.
Some think this reaction started in the northeast of England when the Vikings started raiding them. Some of the girls discovered their ability to do this when frightened by the 7'-9" Vikings--especially when the Vikes had snuck upriver on them in fog--, and used it to good advantage, snapping their heads verily to and fro in squadron formation and whipping those braids around as lethal weapons at 900 mph, giving another Viking a mortal wound with each and every snap. Well, maybe they missed a few, but not many.
The Vikings, soon realizing they had been bested or beasted or something of the sort, gave up England in short order, realized longer commutes are not always all bad, and started trading Scandinavian knicknacks in Italy for really good stuff, like pasta and other foodstuffs which the English never were very good with anyway. Had Scottish haggis, bubble & squeak, or steak & kidney pie lately? Probably not, unless you're Seamus. And then you'll not want to be asking "Kidney of what? No! Not really!" But I digress.
Anon, alas, the Italians tired of trading good ravioli for little carvings of guys with yellow hair and axes, made from dismantled old auto parts skids because we no longer need them, and so the Vikings all retired to Minnesota to found Minneapolis and play lousy football for yuppie fans with nothing better to do than watch. All much to the distress of truly guid people, like the beloved GB Packers.
And so endeth another one of Quasimoto's digressions.
Q
quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
Oh boy, Uncas could do more than braid my hair. I just thought it was a flaw in the movie. She had no braid in her hair and then on the cliffside it magically appears. When did she have time to braid her hair between the confrontation in the Indian Village and going to the cliffside. Me thinks maybe Magua did it he he.
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - March 07 2006 : 12:48:50 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by qasimoto
No. Not at all. Nyet & nada. And the braid just looks like it appears magically. I'm surprised you didn't know about that!
Let me break it you gently. Some girls, when they're suddenly frightened, toss their heads a certain way, and voila! The Braid of Death appears, instantly, with no muss or fuss.
Some think this reaction started in the northeast of England when the Vikings started raiding them. Some of the girls discovered their ability to do this when frightened by the 7'-9" Vikings--especially when the Vikes had snuck upriver on them in fog--, and used it to good advantage, snapping their heads verily to and fro in squadron formation and whipping those braids around as lethal weapons at 900 mph, giving another Viking a mortal wound with each and every snap. Well, maybe they missed a few, but not many.
The Vikings, soon realizing they had been bested or beasted or something of the sort,
THE BRAID OF DEATH! That's it! I'm going to wear one everyday now and when a man gets mouthy - WHAP! That's that, no more fuss, no more muss! Thanks for the info! |
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MeggieD
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Posted - March 24 2006 : 5:14:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jlee
that's interesting... i've never thought about it like that... i've always thought it was just braided while her hair was up, so then when it came out, the braid was the only remnents left of what had been put up. I like your eplanation better, though!
I agree. I noticed when they get to the fort when she embraces her father they show her braid wound around on the back of her head...It's not as romantic as the theories of my fellow Uncas lovers, sorry girls.....Now his braid is just plain hot. |
Uncas: "some food" |
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MeggieD
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Posted - March 25 2006 : 08:29:59 AM
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| OK, just finished LOTM for the 8 thousandth time. Her hair is loose after that fort scene, so she does at some time between leaving the fort and ending up at the Huron village get a braid..... Has everyone noticed Uncas' braid that falls over his right shoulder at the Cameron's when he is over Alexandra's body. I think that's the only time I've seen it.... |
Uncas: "some food" |
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paazau
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Posted - March 25 2006 : 3:58:00 PM
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And the braid is not there in the canoe either. So where else is there time for one to appear??? With Uncas under the falls, that's where!!! Drat that Michael Mann for not putting the Alice/Uncas love scene in. Be still my beating heart.... a strong, silent gorgeous man that will watch out for you AND braid your hair. <sigh>
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raindrops
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Posted - March 25 2006 : 8:45:05 PM
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What is the chance of it being an editing error?
Or maybe the braid was needed for the cliff scene to show her face more clearly, when she shows the subtle emotions so beautifully. If the braid wasn't there, her hair might have covered her face when she turned to look down.
Just a suggestion. |
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paazau
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Posted - March 26 2006 : 7:31:22 PM
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Hi raindrops
It is an editing error of sorts, as we don't know why she now has one when she didn't before. (but they did the same with Uncas' injury - being tended by Cora in the surgey - and Cora calling Hawkey Mr Poe in the burial ground scene.) I think in one way it's just the director's way of letting us know something happened that we haven't been privy to.
Still it's fun to let our imagination run wild as to exactly HOW the braid was done. Was Alice in any frame of mind to actually sit down and put a braid in her own hair? I have to wonder..... she seems terribly fragile from the massacre-point onwards....
And, I agree, yes, the braid was needed for the cliff scene to show off her face and emotions more clearly.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Shaz |
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"Yes I do, I know exactly what I am saying, and if it is sedition, then I am guilty of sedition too!" |
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raindrops
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Posted - March 29 2006 : 2:08:39 PM
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Hi paazau and everyone!
The thing is, when I read the original script, I didn't notice anything about Alice's braid in "Under the falls" scene. I don't think there is any mention of it anywhere else in the script, although I can't be sure because I haven't read all of it. But if there was any scene explainig the appearance of the braid in as a consequence of the storyline, it would be mentioned in the original script, wouldn't it? |
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paazau
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Posted - March 29 2006 : 9:15:47 PM
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Hi raindrops,
Great to have you join in again!!
You're right, there isn't specifically any mention of the braid in the script. It's just our imagination coming into play speculating that uncas braided her hair. (and some of us here have vivid imaginations!)
I have noticed elsewhere in the movie that a noticeable change of hair is seemingly used to indicate a passage of time where we have not seen what the characters have been doing during this time. One particular instance is when Cora overhears Hawkeye and the militia discussing with Munro and Duncan about the milita leaving. Cora's hair is up, with the front coming out, but in the next scene (the rejection) in Cora's/Alice's room her hair is neatly done in a braid over her right shoulder. She has obviously had time to re-do her hair (and do other things) that we have not been shown.
quote:
Originally posted by paazau (me)
the braid was needed for the cliff scene
Perhaps "needed" wasn't the right word there. Perhaps I should have said "was useful".
The Alice/Uncas love scene is in the original script but there again there isn't any specific mention of him braiding her hair. The braiding may have occurred and been filmed when they did the scene, and then when the love scene was cut, left her hair braided in the following scenes to indicate time has passed and things have occurred, and as it was useful to show her face better in the cliff scene.
It's all really just speculation, as the only one who knows why would be Michael Mann, and I can't see him answering our posts. 
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Mountain Man
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Posted - March 29 2006 : 9:43:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by paazau
(and some of us here have vivid imaginations!)
Tell me about it!!!  |
Magua said, understand English very well. |
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paazau
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Posted - March 30 2006 : 06:33:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by paazau (me!)
One particular instance is when Cora overhears Hawkeye and the militia discussing with Munro and Duncan about the milita leaving. Cora's hair is up, with the front coming out, but in the next scene (the rejection) in Cora's/Alice's room her hair is neatly done in a braid over her right shoulder. <snip>
Sorry I had to wait until I got home to get the screen captures I was thinking of.
During the militia debate scene -
And in the Rejection scene -
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Alice's Braid
