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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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 Posted - October 24 2003 : 10:50:09 PM
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It is well known that The French & Indian War became the training ground for Revolution.Heck,The Braddock Expedition is a veritable Who's Who of the AWI.Everyone knows about George Washington,but how about some of those more obscure people who got their start in F&I and went onto bigger things.Let's hear who your favorite personalities are.
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Al Amos
Pathfinder
USA
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August 02 2003
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 Posted - October 25 2003 : 12:02:43 AM
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Braddock went on to bigger and better things (perhaps.)  |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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Posted - October 25 2003 : 11:10:49 AM
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Israel Putnam, 1718-90
He joined the Connecticut forces as a captain in 1755, was at the Battle of Lake George, and went on to become one of the leading ranger caommanders in the Lake George/Champlain corridor. Promoted to major in 1757. Was captured in August 1758 in a skirmish near Wood Creek, he was tied to a tree between the lines and exposed to the fire from both sides during the skirmish. Was about to be burned by his Indian captors when a French officer saved him, and he was sent to Montreal where he was freed by exchange. 1759 was given command of a regiment and promoted lieutenant colonel. Was with Amhersts campaign against Montreal in 1760. In 1762 he was part of Lyman's campaign in the West Indies, where he survived shipwreck and other sufferings, the campaign ended with the capture of Havana. In 1764 Putnam commanded the Connecticut regiment in Bradstreet's campaign to relieve Detroit.
After 1765 Colonel Putnam was active among the "Sons of Liberty " in Connecticut. In the winter of 1772-'3 he accompanied General Lyman in a voyage to the mouth of the Mississippi river, and up to Natchez, where the British government had granted some territory to the Connecticut troops who had survived the dreadful West India campaign. In the course of this voyage they visited Jamaica and Pensacola. In April 1775 upon hearing the news of Lexington and Concord he left his plow in the furrow, mounted his horse and was in Cambridge by dawn of the 21st. With the rank of brigadier general, Putnam commanded the Connecticut forces. At the battle of Bunker Hill he was the ranking officer on the field and undertook to throw up earthworks on the crest of Bunker Hill in the rear, and toward the close of the day conducted the retreat and directed the fortifying of Prospect Hill. It was here he gave his most famous order "Don't fire 'til you see the whites of their eyes!" In 1775 he was one of four major generals in the continental army and commanded the center of the army at Cambridge. In 1776 he was sent to New York and in 1777 to Philadelphia, he then commanded the defense of the Hudson highlands. When the army went into winter-quarters at Morristown, in December, 1779, Putnam made a short visit to his family at Pomfret. He set out on his return to camp, but, before reaching Hartford, had a stroke of paralysis. His remaining years were spent at home.
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YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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Posted - October 25 2003 : 4:01:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Al Amos
Braddock went on to bigger and better things (perhaps.)
You know that Braddock was killed in the battle. Wether he was killed by the enemy or one Thomas Fausett of the 48th remains to be seen.While the survivors such as Lt.Col.Thomas Gage played the blame game,(probably to deflect attention from their own mistakes)George Washington did not criticize the poor General at all!
"If you weren't there,you don't know." |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - October 25 2003 : 6:39:34 PM
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Daniel Morgan was a teamster at Braddock's Defeat. He rec'd 50 lashes for striking a British Officer and for ever more hated the Brit's (military) and demonstrated that at both Saratoga and Cowpens. At Cowpens he paraded before his men showing off the scars from the lash and tellin' the men to listen to and fight for "the Old Waggoner"...
Simon Kenton was also at Braddock's field..later to become one of the great frontier scouts.. serving under George Rogers Clark during the Revolution in his campaign against Kaskaskia and Vencennes..
Young Daniel Boone was also a teamster at Braddock's .. I don't think I need to expound on his later life.
John Stark was one of Roger's Rangers during the F&I war and later fought the British army at Bunker(Breed's) Hill, and at Bennington.
My Great great great uncle Agrippa Wells was a Roger's Ranger during the F&I war and was captured at Sabbath Day Point and later led a company of Deerfield Militia men during the Rev War.
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HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - October 25 2003 : 7:32:11 PM
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And then there was Francis Marion, who fought with Grant against the Cherokee.
And Thomas Sumter.
And Joseph Martin, of Martin's Station fame.
And William Moultrie
And Benjamin Martin :-) |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 12:22:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
And then there was Francis Marion, who fought with Grant against the Cherokee.
And Thomas Sumter.
And Joseph Martin, of Martin's Station fame.
And William Moultrie
And Benjamin Martin :-)
As much as I disparage James Grant,he has got to be one of my all time favorites.He fought at Fauntenoy,then in 1757 he became a member of Montgomery's Highlanders(originally the 1st highland batallion,later the 77th).It was he who led the disasterous raid on Ft.Duquesne losing 1/3 of his force and got captured in the process. He then blamed the whole fiasco on Maj.Andrew Lewis and his Virginians. The highlight of this adventure was that he wrote a letter to General John Forbes hoping that it would not affect his chances for promotion. 
After spending some time as a P.O.W in Quebec he was exchanged at the end of the war.He rejoined the 77th and fought in the Cherokee Wars in South Carolina from 1760-1761.He eventually became the British Governor of East Florida and made the territory quite prosperous.
When he returned to England he sat on Parliament.At that time,there were rumblings from across "the pond" for independence.It was he who made the statement that if he had 5,000 men he could clean house in the colonies(or words to that effect).He did return as a General and commanded at The Battle of Long Island.He also saw action at Brandywine & Germantown.It has also come to light from his papers that were found by his descendants at Ballinoch Castle, that it was he who passed along intelligence that he got from an informant to General Johan Rall who commanded the Hessians at Trenton.This information indicated that an attack by the Continental Army was pending.Of course this information was discarded and the rest is history. Grant died in 1806. |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 07:55:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
... My Great great great uncle Agrippa Wells was a Roger's Ranger during the F&I war and was captured at Sabbath Day Point and later led a company of Deerfield Militia men during the Rev War.
Your family must have had children at a ripe old age, Joe.
My great-great-great uncles were born in the 1810's. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 12:22:50 PM
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| So maybe I missed a great..*shrugs*.. makes no real difference.. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 12:40:43 PM
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| I suppose the missing "greats" are beyond caring at this point. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 1:24:36 PM
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| Not sure what your problem is Scott... |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 1:52:45 PM
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Don't have one, Joe.
Just agreeing with you. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Al Amos
Pathfinder
USA
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August 02 2003
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Posted - October 26 2003 : 9:44:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
You know that Braddock was killed in the battle...
Highlander,
Yes, I am well aware of the dear general's fate. I am obviously joking about where he went in passing on to the after life.
al |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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Posted - October 27 2003 : 01:43:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Al Amos
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
You know that Braddock was killed in the battle...
Highlander,
Yes, I am well aware of the dear general's fate. I am obviously joking about where he went in passing on to the after life.
al
So who's your favorite F&I personality?
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Al Amos
Pathfinder
USA
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August 02 2003
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Posted - October 27 2003 : 07:58:25 AM
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Highlander,
I'm not much into favorite persons of history, as I don't feel I can truly understand them well enough through the writings of others to know them. Now I do have a short list of 'what were they thinking/smoking?' however.
Like Montcalm, he comes over to a totally new envirnment, one where the French has the advantage, Amerindian Allies, and pushes them away. What was he thinking? I mean really what battle did the French win when the Amerindians were NOT present in numbers? Okay Battle of Ticonderoga. Which leads me to my second person, General Abercrombie.
Although he might fall into the 'when was the last time he thought?' category. I can see, possibly, wandering around with 15,000 men and deciding not to do proper recon, etc., but allowing so many attacks to be launched after the first few were totally unsuccessful? Come on, give me a break. 
And of course poor George. What was he thinking when he selected the site for Fort Necessity? Although, I must admit, I probably wouldn't have done much better. My fisrt night in the field during Basic Training resulted in my tent being washed away during an early morning thunderstorm. 
But back to the topic of the thread, more or less, from this time period I would most like to meet and talk with .... Washington, I suppose. Other than that I have no real favorites, sorry. |
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mnchiefs502001
Pathfinder
USA
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July 30 2003
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Posted - October 27 2003 : 6:00:00 PM
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Al Amos,
Montcalm was a European and a Frenchman. You have to look at his actions in a 18th Century context. He thought he and his regular soldiers were superior to French Canadians such as the milice and French Marines. He also had a different opinion of the Native Americans or in 18th Century terms, the Savage.
The French Canadian lived and traded with the native peoples and had a greater understanding of them. they also knew how to implement their help in tactical battles. However this concept was hard for Europeans on both sides. The class system is the main reason. It dictated actions and interactions with natives and Canadians as well as Colonists and British regulars. So we cannot say that Montcalm was entirely foolish, however it may appear that way now 250 years later.
If you want to see examples of cultural differences between Canadians and French Europeans, you can start by researching their clothing. It is fascinating the way the way the French Canadian would wear a particular artical of clothing and how it would be worn it France. Maybe this is a topic I can start on a different thread.
As far as Abercrombie, your analysis maybe dead on as he seemed to defy all tactical logic of the time. In my humble opinion, he was just not up to the job as well as inept.
Lastly Washington at Ft. Necessity, George can’t be blamed too much for his choices. There were not many areas that were naturally clear of trees to build a fort and prosecute a battle using the linear tactics of the time.
Washington was a young and somewhat naïve commander but made his choices for the fort based on the availability of water, grazing for horses, and area for a battle. What he did not take into account was the low areas that would collect water in a rain storm. However if the French did come down for a proper fight this may or maynot have mattered.
The fact that it was surrounded by higher wooded areas was more then likely not as important. GW figured the French would come down on the field to fight. After all that is the gentlemanly way of conducting battle. Washington’s age, inexperience, lack of ability to comprehend the French language, and his naivety were all contributing factors to the events at Ft. Necessity. However, not the only factors, but that is again fodder for a different thread.
Lloyd
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - October 28 2003 : 10:35:16 AM
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Major Rogers died a broken alcoholic, without a country (so to speak).
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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Posted - October 30 2003 : 04:22:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
Major Rogers died a broken alcoholic, without a country (so to speak).
It is coming out now that the wily Robert Rogers(veteran of the French & Indian War) while acting as a Loyalist recruiter,ensnared one naive Nathan Hale,so that he could attend a neck-tie party. |
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Bookworm
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 10 2004
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Posted - July 05 2004 : 10:17:34 AM
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| Another soldier in both wars was Hugh Mercer, about whom I knew absolutely nothing until I watched "The Crossing" not too long ago. (And a very appealing portrayal it was, wouldn't you say, WW?) As Seamus notes in his "Journal of Lt. Col. John Armstrong" -- http://www.mohicanpress.com/kittanning.html -- Captain Hugh Mercer participated in Armstrong's raid on Kittanning, was wounded there, and fell behind on the retreat. Weeks later he arrived at Fort Augusta, having found a bark canoe with which he made his way down the West Branch of the Susquehanna, traveling at night and subsisting on berries and rattlesnake meat. During the Revolution he became General Hugh Mercer, and served as one of Washington's closest aides until he was killed during the battle of Princeton -- wounded, captured, and bayonetted to death after refusing to surrender. I've seen a reference to a single biography of him, entitled "General Hugh Mercer: Forgotten Hero of the American Revolution." Mercer County, PA, is named for him. |
Bookworm
"I've gotten so fascinated with the eighteenth century, I'm going to stay there." -- David McCullough
"Nothing to it, brother." -- Barack Obama |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - July 05 2004 : 7:07:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookworm
Another soldier in both wars was Hugh Mercer, about whom I knew absolutely nothing until I watched "The Crossing" not too long ago. (And a very appealing portrayal it was, wouldn't you say, WW?)
Most definitely! Although I did wonder if the actor might have been just a little too old for the part. Nevertheless... very well done and a very likeable character. General Mercer's death was indeed a great loss for the American cause. He could have been destined for greatness. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Two Kettles
Colonial Settler
USA
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August 01 2002
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Posted - July 18 2004 : 5:41:09 PM
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Moses Hazen was an officer in Rogers' Rangers who went on to command the First Canadian Regiment (pro-Continental) in the Revolution. I think they were even known as "Congress's Own".
James Rogers, brother of Robert, was pretty much the de facto commander of Rogers' Kings Rangers during the Revolution, and was a leading figure in Loyalist Canada following the War. His descendant, Robert J. Rogers (guess who he's named for) has written an excellent study of both brothers in "Rising Above Circomestances: The Rogers Family in Colonial America" (Amazon claims this is out of print, but I doubt it).
William Howe, brother of the unfortunate George, was a British general in the Revolution, and he and his former comrade John Stark faced each other on the beach at Bunker Hill. Had it not been for Stark setting up and manning a barricade on the beach below the American left flank, Howe's Light Infantry might have swept unseen around the Americans and taken them from the side and the rear, preventing the carnage caused by the frontal assault.
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - July 19 2004 : 09:22:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Two Kettles
Had it not been for Stark setting up and manning a barricade on the beach below the American left flank, Howe's Light Infantry might have swept unseen around the Americans and taken them from the side and the rear...
One of my 4th or 5th great-grandfathers, William McCrillis, died for his new country on that beach that day, as a member of Stark's Brigade. His name is on the monument at Bunker Hill.
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - September 03 2004 : 01:21:31 AM
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| I think it interesting that Gen. Braddock was shot by his own men (an American colonial) at the Battle of the Monongahela. This stupid man who insisted on fighting in the forests of North America using European tactics, certainly deserved the fate that befell him. A sixty-two year old hard-headed, stubborn man, who sacrificed fine British infantry and Highlanders, for no good reason. Our people won the engagement, and what a lopsided one that it was. They say that this was a learning experience for the Americans in the Revolution. I don't think so, since they faced each other in line abreast formation again in that war. This nonsense even carried over to the Civil War! Who were the "lucky" ones who got to stand in the front line? Indians were never that careless with their warriors. We never had the numbers to throw away in that type of stupid warfare. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - September 03 2004 : 02:44:21 AM
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quote:
Lonewolf notes: This stupid man who insisted on fighting in the forests of North America using European tactics, certainly deserved the fate that befell him. A sixty-two year old hard-headed, stubborn man, who sacrificed fine British infantry and Highlanders, for no good reason.
Actually, it was those same European tactics that carried the day at Bushy Run; when the flanking action commenced, it was formed up 'in-line' and the follow-up punch was delived from the main body in formation, firing by volley (Papers of Henry Bouquet Vol.6). Where the mistake was made, was General Braddock failing to seize the high ground to the right of his troops, and therefore preventing the encirclement by native forces. If he would have acted on Gage's advice, the British would have carried the day.
Also, I am not aware of any Highlanders present at Braddock's defeat. There may have been a few men of Highland Scot ancestry serving in the Virginia Regiment (One of whom was a suspected Jacobite, and was court-martialed before the engagement; Braddock Road Chronicles 1755), but the 42nd Regiment of Foote (The only Highland Regiment before 1757) was still posted in Ireland until 1756. The two regular regiments, the 44th and 48th, were Irish Regiments. The Independent Companies (New York & South Carolinia), were comprised of invalided soldiers from regiments on the 'English Establishment', and would not have had Highland Scot soldiers.
In addition, I do not believe that General Braddock was a 'stupid' man, only poorly assigned. He was an excellent logistican and staff officer (as his previous record reflects), but he was a third rate line officer. He had never held a combat command before the Monongahala Expedition, and thus was as inexperienced as a newly gazetted ensign.
quote:
Lonewolf also observed: They say that this was a learning experience for the Americans in the Revolution. I don't think so, since they faced each other in line abreast formation again in that war.
Well, if you look at the actual battle history of the AWI, you will see that the Continentals did not start making headway until after they had disciplined themselves in Linear Battle Tactics. A cold hard fact of life is that the 'guys hidding behind rocks and trees' of mythical lore were very ineffective against a disciplined enemy in formation. They had their use, in probing or harassing actions, but for serious fighting, they were nothing more than a nusciance to a disciplined and determined enemy.
Just some of my own observations...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - September 03 2004 : 08:56:12 AM
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I certainly have not made a study of battle methods or tactics during the 18th century, but I have been given to understand that there was a definite reason for the "linear battle tactics" of that time period.
That reason was (apparently) that the smooth-bore muskets were so inaccurate that the chances of actually hitting one's enemy were increased greatly by grouping the men together and firing as one... in a volley. The unfortunate thing about that method is, of course, that if you were in a group of soldiers who were receiving fire, your chances of getting hit were far greater. If everyone had hid behind trees and rocks, and fired separately, far fewer casualties would have occurred. However... that is not the way wars are won, unfortunately.
[Is this information I have heard and read correct, in your opinion, Sarge... or anyone else?] |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - September 03 2004 : 09:14:17 AM
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quote:
Wilderness Woman asks: That reason was (apparently) that the smooth-bore muskets were so inaccurate...Is this information I have heard and read correct, in your opinion, Sarge... or anyone else?
WW, you most certainly have hit the 10X on this (An old AMU/DCM saying, meaning you are right on target, bullseye). The idea of keeping a company or battalion in formation was critical 250 years ago, and it still is today. Yes, even in the era of high firepower and smart weapons, the importance of maintaining formation is just as important, for the same reasons; that being to insure a higher chance of hits due to interlocking fields of fire. The formations may have changed (To include the air angle, as well as length and width of coverage), but the concept of unit integrity, both physically as well as emotionally, is paramount to an army's success. I have known this firsthand, over a decade ago, and I know that it still hasn't changed.
In a nutshell, soldiers who go out and fight 'one-man battles', generally become casualties and inflict very little on the enemy. That is why George Washington enlisted the aid of Baron Von Steuben, to make his soldiers 'fight like the British'. Once that happened, we then started winning the major battles.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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