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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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 Posted - June 26 2002 : 1:17:58 PM
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Poll Question:
"My Father warned me about people like you."
Is the "you" Hawkeye is referring to:
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Diane B.
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - June 26 2002 : 1:53:56 PM
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Hey, Theresa!
Can we vote twice???! I think Hawkeye is referring to the white man AND Phil! 
After our little debate with Phil at Hannah Flannagan's, I watched this scene in the movie very carefully! I originally believed that Hawkeye was referring to the white man & now I am more firmly convinced than ever - especially after the Huron warriors turn back because our hero & the others have sought refuge in a burial ground. As the Hurons retreat, Cora scoffs to Hawkeye, "A breed apart, we make no sense?"
Phil, I rest my case!
Regards,
Diane B.
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - June 26 2002 : 5:59:31 PM
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Diane,
I hope Phil knows his name is there because he is so funny and kept me laughing the whole time . I couldn't resist. I, too, always thought Hawkeye was speaking of the white man and I still do. But after Phil posed the question it certainly gave me food for thought. I wonder if anyone else has ever considered that perhaps he was speaking of women?
Love ya, Phil!!
Theresa |
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sidony
Pioneer
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Posted - June 27 2002 : 12:37:56 AM
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I thought he was referring to white men. Phil, do you think women make no sense??!
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hawkeye
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Posted - June 27 2002 : 08:03:06 AM
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quote:
I thought he was referring to white men. Phil, do you think women make no sense??!
I've always thought (and still do) that Hawkeye was referring to white men. Also, that Cora was referring to indians in her reply. I wasn't present during the conversation you all had with Phil, but I can't help but think he was trying to get a rise out of someone.
BTW... my mother warned me about people like Phil! 
Marc
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
USA
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June 23 2002
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Posted - June 27 2002 : 5:42:30 PM
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Good poll, Theresa! I thought Hawkeye was talking about Mohican Gatherers myself, that's why we put that quote in the Program Guide at the end of the "Gathering History" section. Indeed, we are a breed apart and make no sense. Just ask my co-workers!
Stephanie
P.S. Having Phil around was like watching a John Candy movie.... he can make you laugh and you feel like you've known him forever. Love ya, Phil! And I agree with what someone posted on the other board... that perhaps he is a long lost Sweetser sibling!
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - June 27 2002 : 7:51:16 PM
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I find myself sympathetic to Phil's point of view. 
However, it would seem out of character for Chingachgook to impose such a black & white judgment on an entire sex--or race, for that matter.
I think he was warning his son about a particular personality type that would work out to something like:
"Romantic idealist do-gooders seeking to impose their value judgments on others"
Fortunately for out story, Cora revealed a bit of her true mettle, and "Hawkeye is the one left staring into the birch forest, a little surprised. Some of his assumptions about her were wrong ..."
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Lainey
TGAT
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Posted - June 27 2002 : 9:55:15 PM
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People, people, people ... I thought you all knew this one already. 
"It's neither pig nor pork ... it's mulatto."
Any Cooper/LOTM graduate knows that Cora is hypersensitive about her "mixed blood." Hawkeye, who wanted to strangle Miss Cora back at Cameron's Cabin, sensed her neurotic hang-ups & with typical frontiersman indifference, went for the jugular. "My father warned me about people like you. You are a breed apart ..."
Cora was pissed!
But when she asked, "Your father?," she was hoping maybe Hawkeye, too, was a mulatto AND that's why she mentioned her deeply stirred blood!
Hawkeye was definitely referring to mulattos ..... yep, yep, yep.
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 06:47:01 AM
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That did cross my mind Elaine. But again, it would seem out of character for Chingachkook to tar an entire group on the basis of racial classification.
Besides, Cora seems to have lost her duskiness in the movie. Or did I miss something?
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Theresa
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 07:38:59 AM
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Scott wrote:
quote:
I think he was warning his son about a particular personality type that would work out to something like:
"Romantic idealist do-gooders seeking to impose their value judgments on others"
Hmmmm, Scott. This is a very interesting thought, indeed. Perhaps he was speaking of a particular personality type. That had never occured to me. Certainly makes one do a little more thinking on this. Thanks for your input. This is turning out to be a very good discussion. Everyones' thoughts are welcome.
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 09:19:03 AM
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Lainey I had forgotten completely about the issue of Cora's "breed." How could I forget when Sachem refers to her as the "dark child of Munro" ?!
Stephanie
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hawkeye
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 1:54:16 PM
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quote:
Lainey I had forgotten completely about the issue of Cora's "breed." How could I forget when Sachem refers to her as the "dark child of Munro" ?!
Ok... I was going to sit here and pretend I knew what all of you were talking about, but now you really have me curious.
What's up with Cora's breed? Is she supposed to be of mixed cultures? I thought she was referred to as the "Dark Child" simply 'cause she was a brunette. Is there more to it than that?
Marc
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Lainey
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 2:42:20 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lainey I had forgotten completely about the issue of Cora's "breed." How could I forget when Sachem refers to her as the "dark child of Munro" ?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok... I was going to sit here and pretend I knew what all of you were talking about, but now you really have me curious.
What's up with Cora's breed? Is she supposed to be of mixed cultures? I thought she was referred to as the "Dark Child" simply 'cause she was a brunette. Is there more to it than that?
Marc
************
Oh, oh ... you didn't know? Well ... uhmm ... you see ... Miss Cora is a ... mulatto. Yes she is. Don't let that living in Boston stuff fool you. She's 1/2 Scot, 1/2 West Indies.
Sachem knew it. Hawkeye knew it. Even Duncan knew it.
And as for Chingachgook, Scott, remember how annoyed he was when he noticed Uncas & Alice exchanging the *look.* He wasn't too keen on the mulatto thing either. (Did I mention Ching isn't really Mohican - he's Delaware.)
I should confess, Marc, that this insider info is courtesy of the book.
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 6:43:00 PM
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quote:
I should confess, Marc, that this insider info is courtesy of the book.
... and doesn't apply to the Michael Mann version! I fear Miss Lainey is either going off the deep end or else has that tongue stuck in her cheek again!
Edited by - richfed on June 28 2002 6:44:28 PM |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 7:55:32 PM
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quote:
Lainey I had forgotten completely about the issue of Cora's "breed." How could I forget when Sachem refers to her as the "dark child of Munro" ?!
Stephanie
Guess I did miss something.
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
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Posted - June 28 2002 : 10:04:57 PM
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It's been a very long time since I read it, but here thanks to the wonders of the internet:
quote:
"You'll know, already, Major Heyward, that my family was both ancient and honourable," com-
menced the Scotsman, "though it might not alto-
gether be endowed with that amount of wealth, that
should correspond with its degree. I was, may be,
such an one as yourself, when I plighted my faith to
Alice Graham; the only child of a neighbouring laird
of some estate. But the connexion was disagreeable
to her father, on more accounts than my poverty. I
did, therefore, what an honest man should; restored
the maiden her troth, and departed the country, in
the service of my king. I had seen many regions,
and had shed much blood in different lands, before
duty called me to the islands of the West Indies.
There it was my lot to form a connexion with one
who in time became my wife, and the mother of
Cora. She was the daughter of a gentleman of those
isles, by a lady, whose misfortune it was, if you will,"
said the old man, proudly, "to be descended, re-
motely, from that unfortunate class, who are so base-
ly enslaved to administer to the wants of a luxurious
people! Ay, sir, that is a curse entailed on Scotland,
by her unnatural union with a foreign and trading
people. But could I find a man among them, who
would dare to reflect her descent on my child, he
should feel the weight of a father's anger! Ha!
Major Heyward, you are yourself born at the south,
where these unfortunate beings are considered of a
race inferior to your own!"
Page_from_1826_edition
I believe this would have made Cora quadroon.
And yes, Duncan is an American.
Plenty of allusions, too. I like this one:
quote:
Though
this sudden and startling movement of the Indian,
produced no sound from the other, in the surprise,
her veil also was allowed to open its folds, and be-
trayed an indescribable look of pity, admiration and
horror, as her dark eye followed the easy motions of
the savage. The tresses of this lady were shining
and black, like the plumage of the raven. Her com-
plexion was not brown, but it rather appeared
charged with the colour of the rich blood, that
seemed ready to burst its bounds...
Cora speaking of Magua:
quote:
"Should we distrust the man, because his manners
are not our manners, and that his skin is dark!"
coldly asked Cora.
Should've trusted Alice's intuition on this one!
(Link to 1826 page (wouldn't seem to let me post the pic) from: The University of Virginia Electronic_Text_Center.)
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Stephanie
Gathering Sachemess
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Posted - June 29 2002 : 11:04:12 AM
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Doesn't apply to the Michael Mann version? Au contraire, Mr. Federici. Look what I found on a Madeline Stowe website:
"Madeleine Stowe is half British (father) and half-Costa Rican (mother)."
'Nuff said.
Stephanie
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Lainey
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Posted - June 29 2002 : 12:54:34 PM
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Doesn't apply to the Michael Mann version? Au contraire, Mr. Federici. Look what I found on a Madeline Stowe website:
"Madeleine Stowe is half British (father) and half-Costa Rican (mother)."
'Nuff said.
You tell him, Steph! That boy has NO imagination ...
Cora is a MULATTO!!!!!!!
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hawkeye
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Posted - June 30 2002 : 09:28:34 AM
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quote:
"Madeleine Stowe is half British (father) and half-Costa Rican (mother)."
British??? Monro is a Scot in the British army. Wouldn't that make her half Scot and half Costa Rican? Or is that simply a generalization...
Marc
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MarshaMc
Lost in the Wilderness
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Posted - June 30 2002 : 5:39:43 PM
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Not to split hairs, but the term "mulatto" specifically refers to a person of mixed Caucasian and African blood.
Ms. Stowe doesn't fit that description :-)
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Lainey
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Posted - June 30 2002 : 9:47:25 PM
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But splitting hairs is so appropriate, what with all the hawk throwing & scalping around these parts. (That Magua is such a role model, it would seem.)
quote:
Ms. Stowe doesn't fit that description
But Cora Munro does! Her West Indies lineage is from African slaves.
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Phil
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Posted - July 12 2002 : 01:21:29 AM
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Hi,
Well I would like to start by saying that until the 2002 gathering, I had not seen the movie without falling asleep (thanks for poking me in the ribs Girls). With that said, I am not an expert on the book or the movie, but I have a few observations about the quote.
1 - No mention that Cora is anything but the daughter of a British Officer (White Anglo Saxon, etc.)
2 - Hawkeye is himself a White Man
3 - He is speaking to Cora about women, not about race
And finally, what married man can possibly disagree that "Women are a Breed Apart and Make No Sense"! This is an undisputed fact!
So I think that this is the correct interpretation of the conversation.
Phil
P.S. - Yes I did vote and it wasn't for Phil
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Diane B.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - July 12 2002 : 09:22:58 AM
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Phil!
Glad to see a post from you! It was great meeting you & your wife & all of the other Gatherers. Will we see you next year?
You claim that you didn't fall asleep during LOTM but you must have nodded off during that exchange between Hawkeye & Cora!  I think Marc sums it up nicely in an earlier post:
quote:
I've always thought (and still do) that Hawkeye was referring to white men. Also, that Cora was referring to indians in her reply. I wasn't present during the conversation you all had with Phil, but I can't help but think he was trying to get a rise out of someone.
BTW... my mother warned me about people like Phil!
Marc
Watch the movie again, Phil! Even if you don't change your opinion on what Hawkeye meant, you still have to watch the movie again, anyway. One of the unwritten "laws" of being a Mohicanite is that you watch the movie again & again & again! Once you're able to recite all or most of the script from memory, you'll know you've met the minimum requirements for watching it!
Rattlesnake Woman
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Theresa
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Posted - July 12 2002 : 09:24:06 AM
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Well, hello there, Phil! So nice to see you. I hope you know that the Phil option was put there in fun. Actually, I would like to thank you for even bringing this debate to light. Until you suggested that Hawkeye was referring to women, I never really thought anything about it. As you can see, several people here have their ideas and opinions on this and it has made for some good conversation.
Good to see you and Karen made it home safely. We SO enjoyed you at the Gathering and look forward to seeing you again. Take care!
Theresa |
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Phil
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Posted - July 15 2002 : 6:11:26 PM
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So I know that my WIFE voted for me, but who are the other three. Boy you "MOHICANITES" are a Breed Apart also.
I demand a recount !!!!
Phil
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Ranger of the North Woods
Lost in the Wilderness
Canada
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Posted - January 29 2003 : 9:02:21 PM
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It always occured to me, from the first time I saw the film, that he was indeed referring to a certain personality type. The words "people like you" don't lead me to believe he is refering to gender, for if this is so, hes talking as if he's never spoken to a white woman before.
And likewise, I can't see the 'ol papa mohican putting down the opposite sex. By the way she had acted at Cameron's Cabin, I imagine Nathaniel assumed her to be a judgemental and spoiled brat. |
Nova Scotia; several inches of topsoil and scraggly forest covering several billion tons of rock. |
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A Breed Apart and Make No Sense
