| Author |
 Topic  |
|
daire
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 17 2002
Status: offline
|
 Posted - January 31 2003 : 7:37:09 PM
|
I don't think that Chingachgook would put down the opposite sex. Native tribes respected their women and were matriarchal societies. I voted for "white man" because I think Nathaniel was referring to the Brit's culture in general AND their/Cora's ignorance of the where she was and who lived there (and being a spoiled brat. LOL)  If she'd been in Albany for "days and days", perhaps there would have been talk about the colonials and why they lived on the frontier. And Cora seemed intelligent enough that she might ask questions about them before being ambushed and stuck in the wilderness with 3 Mohican warriors. hehehe JMO |
daire
_____________________________________
"I do not call myself subject to much at all."
|
report to moderator  |
|
|
Phil
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 10 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - February 02 2003 : 9:35:02 PM
|
Hi,
Glad to see that this topic isn't dead. You will never convince me that Hawkeye did not mean WOMEN. You can quote the book all you want, but this is the MOVIE. Remember this was filmed in 91 and I am SURE that this is the correct meaning.
Well now that I have probably gotten everyone back up in arms, I hope that we can continue discussing this at the next gathering, which my wife will drag me to.
Phil
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - February 03 2003 : 04:43:19 AM
|
Ever imagine your innocent remark back on the trail at the Gathering would still be a topic of conversation?!?
Somehow, the picture of little ole Karen dragging you, Phil, is hard to picture!
See you in June! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - February 03 2003 : 07:16:44 AM
|
Hey Phil and Karen,
So glad to hear you're coming back kicking and screaming all the way!! I never thought that when I posted this poll question that it would take on such a life of its own. Good to know folks are still thinking about it and with all the different angles and perspectives, now I'm not even sure what he meant.
|
Theresa |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - February 03 2003 : 12:27:17 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Bubar
...it would seem out of character for Chingachgook to impose such a black & white judgment on an entire sex--or race, for that matter. I think he was warning his son about a particular personality type that would work out to something like:
"Romantic idealist do-gooders seeking to impose their value judgments on others"
My two-cents worth: I think Scott pretty much hit the nail on the head. So did Ranger of the North Woods. I placed my vote for "White Men"... but I qualify that to be "any person who fits the above description." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - March 09 2003 : 12:09:34 PM
|
ARGH!! It has suddenly become very clear! Hawkeye was obviously referring to the French!  |
Theresa |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Phil
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 10 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - March 13 2003 : 12:12:47 AM
|
Hey Theresa,
I agree with you as long as the French he was refering to meant French Women.
Phil
To be continued in person in June (so watch out). |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Lurking Huron5898
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - March 13 2003 : 03:07:01 AM
|
Well how about when Col.Webb stated that "The French have no stomach for war,they'd rather eat and make love with their faces" What do you suppose he meant by that? |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - March 13 2003 : 07:13:08 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Phil
Hey Theresa,
I agree with you as long as the French he was refering to meant French Women.
Phil
To be continued in person in June (so watch out).
PHIL!! 
Hey and where ya been? |
Theresa |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 13 2003 : 11:53:00 PM
|
I was watching the DVD version today, and when they got to the part in the burial ground, Hawkeye says " My father warned me about people like you." and then it cuts to the Indians and the milice. Did the drop the "breed apart" statement? Or did I have to many Sam Adams'?
By the way, Sam Adams Spring Ale is out and it is great! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Diane B.
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 14 2003 : 09:18:40 AM
|
Hi, Fitz,
The DVD version does indeed omit the "breed apart" conversation, and part of the exchange between Hawkeye and Cora "under the falls," and a few other lines along the way.  When the DVD came out with a description of "expanded director's version," I knew that it included some added footage, but I never dreamed that some lines/scenes would be cut! A lot of folks here on the Board have expressed a desire for Michael Mann to release one more version but this one would include all of the original footage and the added footage, as well. Not very likely to happen, but we can always dream... |
Rattlesnake Woman
"The earth does not belong to us; we belong to the earth." - Chief Seattle
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 18 2003 : 10:03:49 AM
|
| It looks like most of what was cut were comments by Hawkeye. Was this an attempt to "clean up" the Hawkeye character? Was DDL involved in any way? |
| report to moderator |
|
|
caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - April 18 2003 : 7:53:59 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
It looks like most of what was cut were comments by Hawkeye. Was this an attempt to "clean up" the Hawkeye character? Was DDL involved in any way?
To me, those lines made his character more endearing to me and the love story more powerful.
(though the breechclouts didn't hurt either... now, what was I talking about? 
Is it likely that those lines were very hollywood and that's why Mann chose to cut them out?  |
Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 19 2003 : 08:29:16 AM
|
I think Mann may have removed it because the line doesn't really make much sense in the context.
As Lainey pointed out, it makes sense in terms of the book because Cora is mulatto--a half-breed. This was an issue for Cooper. He was careful to keep the races apart. Hawkeye was clearly white in the book in spite of his upbringing, and less "Indianized" than DDL. Cora's having been marked by the tarbrush prevented any romantic entanglement between them, so his virtue was safe.
Uncas and Alice paid the price of their attraction by being killed off before anything serious could develop.
Audiences at the time simply wouldn't have tolerated it.
In that context "breed apart" would refer to the halfbreed who in Cooper's world is understood by neither of the cultures and who fit in nowhere.
But none of this applies to the movie. There is no mention of Cora being mulatto, and today's audience more or less accepts interracial love.
So the line was "a line apart and makes no sense". |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
chasis_22
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 19 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - May 06 2003 : 4:51:48 PM
|
| Ok I have put off responding to this topic long enough! I don't recall what I voted but her is my opinion. I believe that he is referring to the white man. Even though Hawkeye himself is white he sees himself as an Indian. I am sure he knows he is not a true Indian but he was raised by Chingachgook and has been taught the ways of the Indians. Besides...Cora wasn't the only one who threw a fit about burying Cameron's family.....I believe Duncan said something about it too. Although Cora did make a bigger fuss over it! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
ConfusedOne
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - June 04 2003 : 02:07:38 AM
|
Not to offend anyone but...I put "the white men". (By the way...when i say "white people", i am referring to the British/English armies, not the colonial people.) Back then, the white people were soooo ignorant and sometimes selfish. I don't see how they survived in the wilderness and war. They seemed like stupid...umm...stupid PEOPLE!!! So ignorant and stupid that i don't have words to describe them. Stupid people that took over the land they didn't even know anything about and abused it. The British also had no feelings at all for the colonial people and Indians. They were just using them to get more people on there side. Especially Munro.
Wow...ok...i really got into that one. -later |
Cherokee Nation. Cherokee Tribe.
So proud to live. So proud to die.
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - June 04 2003 : 06:01:45 AM
|
| Whoa, ConfusedOne ... it was a clash of cultures. Intelligence had nothing to do with it. Both sides looked at the other with some disdain for lack of understanding. Don't repeat history's mistakes! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Lurking Huron8569
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
|
|
Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - June 04 2003 : 6:52:35 PM
|
I'd also like to point out that, far from merely surviving the war, the British won it, hands down.
And in doing so, they demonstrated a great deal of adaptability and flexibility. They developed the light infantry concept here on the North American front, utilized rangers and, of course, judiciously employed those highlanders.
As far as "taking over the land", it was the colonials (who of course were British at the time, though perhaps of an inferior sort  who were pushing this--in particularly the speculators, and it was the English who were attempting to keep it in check. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
ConfusedOne
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2003
Status: offline
|
 Posted - June 09 2003 : 02:38:19 AM
|
Sorry....you guys are right. i was just mad at all the people who mistreat Indians (and colonials) without a cause. (i just saw "Dances w/ Wolves" before i posted this.) When i looked back at my post...i seem really racist...that's not me. sorry i got worked up over nothing.
This is ever so embarrassing!!!  |
Cherokee Nation. Cherokee Tribe.
So proud to live. So proud to die.
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
ConfusedOne
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - June 10 2003 : 10:59:02 PM
|
Scott...
quote:
I'd also like to point out that, far from merely surviving the war, the British won it, hands down.
Yeah...they won alright. But was this history changing victory won fairly? Remember when the colonial and Mohawk/Mohican homes were attacked by an ottawa war party? Did Munro let them tend to their homes right after Web promised that they could if their homes were attacked? I didn't think so. The British made agreements with the colonials and the Indians and broke them. Wouldn't you say that because of that, they got more men and control? You think that's moral? I think that is totally WHACK!
ALSO....
quote:
As far as "taking over the land", it was the colonials (who of course were British at the time, though perhaps of an inferior sort <http://www.mohicanpress.com/messageboard/images/icon_smile_wink.gif> who were pushing this--in particularly the speculators, and it was the English who were attempting to keep it in check.
Yeah...you're right about the colonials being British too, but did you ever think of the reasons why the colonials immagrated to "the New World"? My history book, teachers, historians, and I think that some of the reasons that they moved here was for religious freedom, freedom in general, and to rid themselves of British and English rule. |
Cherokee Nation. Cherokee Tribe.
So proud to live. So proud to die.
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - June 11 2003 : 12:09:31 AM
|
quote:
But was this history changing victory won fairly?
War's not fair. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
ConfusedOne
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - June 11 2003 : 8:38:26 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
quote:
But was this history changing victory won fairly?
War's not fair.
Yeah...i have to agree with you on that. I was wonderin' why i put that in there.
Oh...rich and scott... when i said that the British and English were "stupid people", i didn't really mean "not intellegent".....I meant....well...It's too hard to explain, plus there might be more than one explanation. |
Cherokee Nation. Cherokee Tribe.
So proud to live. So proud to die.
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
Miss Munro
Pathfinder
Sweden
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 04 2004
Status: offline
|
Posted - May 07 2004 : 06:58:34 AM
|
Interesting point Theresa!I newer thought about it before...
I think he ment ritch city folks...
Hawkeye  Cora
|
"Do you love me? Or you're not the loving kind?" |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - May 07 2004 : 7:16:50 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Munro
Interesting point Theresa!I newer thought about it before...
I think he ment ritch city folks...
Hawkeye Cora
Phil opened this can of worms at the 2002 Gathering and I'm not sure a concensus has ever been met. |
Theresa |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
A Breed Apart and Make No Sense
