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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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 Posted - February 07 2008 : 6:52:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
I saw her error but knew you would set the record straight upon your return You took care of it nicely without too much bloodshed.
Thank you, thank you ...I try! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
USA
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May 18 2002
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Posted - February 08 2008 : 1:29:12 PM
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| It is great to see so much activity on this thread. I also extend my welcome to the newcomers, and returning "old-timers". |
We become what we think about. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - February 08 2008 : 8:21:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
As for Red...well, she's a scrappy little sweet pea (no offense, dear friend ), she's the princess.
"Scrappy little sweet pea," huh? We'll see about that. Just watch me flex my muscles:
Now for a trip to the mudpit, honey. We'll see who's really the queen!  |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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March 14 2005
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Posted - February 08 2008 : 8:37:36 PM
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| Why did she jump?? ... Dramatics, - it was in the script, to enhance the movie. |
you can keep "The Change" |
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nativedoll
Pioneer
USA
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January 10 2008
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Posted - February 08 2008 : 10:29:24 PM
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Or, perhaps darling Alice was simply sick of all the he-man "My tomahawk is better than your tomahawk" antics that landed her in that mess in the first place.
But I'm too much of a hopeless romantic to believe that myself.  |
For attractive lips, speak words of kindness.
For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people.
For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry.
For beautiful hair, let a child run his fingers through it once a day.
For poise, walk with the knowledge you'll never walk alone.
- Audrey Hepburn. |
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blackfootblood
Devoted Tribal Member
USA
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May 22 2007
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Posted - February 09 2008 : 1:49:08 PM
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| A bee chased her off the edge!! (FYI: She's allergic to bee stings) |
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!"
"Live well, love much, laugh often!" |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - February 09 2008 : 9:39:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
As for Red...well, she's a scrappy little sweet pea (no offense, dear friend), she's the princess.
"Scrappy little sweet pea," huh? We'll see about that. Just watch me flex my muscles:
Now for a trip to the mudpit, honey. We'll see who's really the queen!
HA! You wish honey! You won't even go near our favorite thread, you have no chance in the pit! NOW GET BACK IN LINE!!! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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gema_again
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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December 24 2007
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 Posted - March 02 2008 : 6:50:24 PM
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| Women had to be just as rough and tumble as men in those days. No such thing as a genteel woman on the frontier. Both were well kept and not bad looking compared to the alternatives for females. They would have been a good catch or wife for someone. Alice and Cora definitely stood out as unlike other women. Competition on the frontier for available women worth marrying would have been minimal. Rugged fugly women would have been all around better company and more helpful for most frontiersmen. |
Kin-tuc-ee |
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nipponophile
Pathfinder
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November 11 2008
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Posted - November 11 2008 : 12:06:32 PM
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I've no doubt Alice loved Uncas (and that's even without the inclusion in the film of the famous-yet-never-seen under the falls love scene), but I think her reasons for jumping were multiple - not being able to envisage a life without Uncas, fearing what Magua would do to her...
Anyway, I've only been aware of this site for a few days (and a registered use for a few hours), but what a wonderful outlet it is for my aesthetic appreciation of the beautiful man that is Uncas, and the subtle and deep beauty of his and Alice's love for each other. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - January 09 2009 : 8:38:38 PM
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Say what you will. But I'm sticking with my first thought!
She jumped because he truely loved me and she couldn't stand the rejection! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 24 2007
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Posted - January 10 2009 : 2:09:38 PM
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Nipponophile,
You need to check out my transcription of my copy of the script's P.107A and Wilderness Woman's take on it in the recent thread titled "Questions"; you won't like it and will probably disagree, but I think she's hit the nail on the head! |
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hanako-chan
Lost in the Wilderness
Philippines
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January 17 2009
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Posted - January 18 2009 : 04:09:34 AM
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Well, My choice was not really included in the list. But, I chose the second one. The option where she might have done it in exchange for Uncas' sacrifices for her throughout the film. My guess was really that she was trying to piss off Magua, or something like that. I didn't see LOVE emanating from her eyes during the scene. It's more of "So, you think you won? Oh, no you don't. I'll kill myself instead."
Actually, I didn't even know there's supposed to be a romantic link between Uncas and Alice. I did noticed that Uncas is a little protective of her, but her reactions did not reflect anything close to the idea of actually loving him. She may have liked him, but I guessed that's all. Guys, please don't bully me because of this. I really did hope they (the directors, etc) developed Uncas' and Alice's relationship the same way they did with Hawkeye and Cora's. It would have been..cute. But blame it on Jodhi May's mom or her being a minor. The original script contained a graphic love scene. you know what 'graphic' means, right? But, they had it mellowed down into a simple kissing scene which didn't make it to the final editing. Eric Schweig was also disappointed with what they did to the supposed love scene. It may have shed some light on the whole did-they-really-fall-in-love question.
Now, tell me what you guys think. |
"When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it's not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end." |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - January 19 2009 : 10:18:41 AM
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| I think that you are 100% correct!! Welcome to the forums! |
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vincent
Pioneer
USA
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May 20 2002
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Posted - January 20 2009 : 6:30:44 PM
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One other important question we have neglected is exactly "How did Alice jumped off the cliff?" Our own Soldier #2 (Eric H) was nice enough to enlighten me many moons ago at one of his group Q&A's and I will let another member answer this important question...
Vince
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Jo
Sweetser 4 Rep
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May 27 2002
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Posted - May 01 2009 : 1:09:09 PM
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Vincent, Vincent, is this you from our Gatherings? IF so hello from the Sweetser Sisters; if not ; well hello, anyway!)
Yes, well, as Soldier #2 explained during our walks up the trail; "Alice" jumped off to a mattress in the stunt.
Why did she in the movie? Well, my humble take on this, is that, she was never be the same after being taken captive....and she jumped because she didn't want anymore of the trail or the hardness set upon her. She had her hair braided so maybe that was her symbol.
I think she may have thought she was one with Uncas, and didn't think she could go on without him.
My take on this.
Jo |
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MoneminsCastle
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November 27 2008
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 2:03:07 PM
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They sure butchered Cooper's book when they made this movie. The book and the movie were so much different.
What Cooper wrote:
Alice Munro was Cora's younger 1/2 sister. Alice escaped capture and was not killed in the book. Never had a relationship with Uncas. Was to marry Major Duncan Heyward, who help to save her from capture.
Cora Munro's mother was the daughter of a black slave. Magua wanted Cora to be his wife. Cora was killed by Magua and thrown off a cliff.
Colonel Munro - escaped the massacre at Fort William Henry with Major Heyward. Was still alive at the end of the book without a scratch. Helped his daughters escaped capture and traveled with Hawkeye, Uncas, Chingachgook, and Major Heyward.
Magua - Referred to as the "Sly Fox", he captured Cora and Alice at Fort William Henry, but they escaped. Subsequently Cora was recaptured. Magua wanted Cora to be his wife. When Magua was cornered by Uncas, Hayward, and Hawkeye, Magua stuck Cora with a death blow and threw her over a cliff. Uncas lept to try to catch Cora and Magua stabbed him. Magua himself fell off the cliff before Hawkeye could shoot him.
Hawkeye - Called Le Longue Carabine by the Huron even though his rifle, "Killdeer" was a smooth bore and not a carbine. Helped free Munro girls by dresssing up in a bear outfit.
Inter-racial relationships were not written about by popular authors in 1826. Cora was part black and was desired by Magua not Hawekeye.
Major Duncan Heyward was to marry Alice. Cora being part negro would not have been acceptable to English gentry.
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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August 16 2006
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 10:21:40 PM
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I for one am certainly impressED with the breadth of your knowledge!
As far as the movie goes, we all know that it is 5% chickflick and 95% MANMOVIE! |
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - May 13 2009 : 5:19:04 PM
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| Obi, I agree that it is both, but I hardly think you got the ratios right. |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - May 13 2009 : 8:35:02 PM
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You're right, my dear wing', I was waaay too generous with the 'chickflick' percentage!  |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - May 14 2009 : 08:45:46 AM
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Are you Kidding, Obi???? With that glorious love story between Hawkeye and Cora??? How can you possibly say that? 
I think the correct ratio should be 50-50. That's, of course, if you are assuming that the ladies only care about the romantic part of the story. Speaking for myself... I thoroughly enjoy the so-called "manly" parts of the movie, as well. The skirmishing, the attacking, the shooting, the running, the paddling, the arguing, the..... aw heck. I just LOVE IT ALL!!!
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - May 14 2009 : 5:44:27 PM
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Getting back to the topic at hand: really, who cares why she jumped! I for one am just as glad we finally saw the last of her!
Let's face it: Alice and Uncas are just throw-away characters (yes, pun intended). |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - May 17 2009 : 9:10:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MoneminsCastle
Hawkeye - Called Le Longue Carabine by the Huron even though his rifle, "Killdeer" was a smooth bore and not a carbine.
Cooper was correct. A carbine is not a rifle. It is a smoothbore. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - June 03 2009 : 11:20:46 AM
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Fitz, you OF ALL PEOPLE should know that the FRENCH term "carabine" designates a smaller, lighter, and SOMETIMES smaller-bored shoulder arm; which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not it is RIFLED. ( Obviously they can very well be rifled, as in the "immortal" rifled carbines of the Civil War such as the Spencer and Sharps. )
Monemins, welcome to the board!
"Hawkeye - Called Le Longue Carabine by the Huron even though his rifle, 'Killdeer' was a smooth bore and not a carbine."
Sorry; in spite of your considerable ( and correct! ) knowledge of Cooper's novel, a "rifle" CANNOT be a SMOOTHBORE! Why not? BECAUSE IT'S RIFLED! ( As a Civil War reenactor I have this problem trying to make our modern "gun-shy" population understand this difference ALL the time. ) And Kildeer is definitely a RIFLE; notice the "odd" way Hawkeye carries it when running, holding it as he does about mid-way along its length. That's because, despite its slim and graceful appearance, the damn thing's HEAVY and poorly-balanced due to the weight of a rifle's barrel. ( And of course I saw it in person many times, though I never held it. )
Military shoulder arms of this period, French or English, were large-bore ( .69 or .71 calliber respectively ) muskets which weighed approx. 9 - 10 lbs. ( without the bayonet! ) and were AT LEAST 59" long. Although they WERE used by some mounted troops ( cavalrie and dragons ) they were woefully bulky for light cavalry ( hussars, chasseurs ). A shorter, lighter model was adapted for them; one that could even be muzzle-loaded while on horseback: the CARABINE! ( As I'm writing this, I'm looking at 2 of them hanging on my wall: an undated Revolutionary hussar musketoon from around 1795; and an Imperial example for chasseurs a'cheval dated 1813. ) This term found itself applied to ANY arm having similar characteristics, particularly HUNTING arms like SHOTGUNS. ( Notice I didn't say "hunting rifles" because these weren't RIFLED, but smoothbored. )
Military MUSKETS; smaller versions of them, intended primarily for officers, called FUSILS ( or "fuzees" in English ); and hunting shotguns were ALL relatively short-ranged SMOOTHBORES: their barrels were nothing more than thin-walled metal "pipes". German gunsmiths utilizing specialized machinery cut narrow, twisted channels lengthwise INSIDE heavy thick-walled "pipes" ( gun barrels ) which were known as RIFLING. The barrels HAD to be thick and heavy for the crappy steel alloys of the period to withstand the added pressure of the powder charge in the rifling, much greater than in a smoothbored musket. But rifling extended the range of the weapon to double or even triple that of the smoothbore; VERY important to a hunter of game on a frontier where literally every shot HAD to count! Rifling was rare and VERY expensive; in Cooper's novels one wonders just how it was that the obviously indifferent and poverty-stricken Hawkeye, et al. could possibly have afforded them. The cost of one could EASILY wipe out any profit over an entire season of good hunting. |
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MoneminsCastle
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Posted - June 03 2009 : 1:37:22 PM
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James. . .excellent catch. You caught my mistake. I misquoted as I was trying to recall from memory. That's not what Hawkeye said.
Here's the actual line:
Chapter XXIX, Page 413, Line 30
"That I did not answer to the call for La Longue Carabine was not owing either to shame or fear," he said; "for neither one nor the other is the gift of an honest man. But I do not admit the right of the Mingos to bestow a name on one whose friends have been mindful of his gifts, in this particular ; especially as their title is a lie, ' Killdeer' being a grooved barrel and no cara- byne. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - June 03 2009 : 6:00:49 PM
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| In the mid 18th century the term carbine, or carbine bore, referred to a gun made with smaller than the normal military caliber. They were usually in the mid or low ".60's" instead of .69 and larger. None were rifled except for about 1100 made in France in the 1730's, but never shipped to the Americas. The British used rifles, but did not refer to them as carbines. Rifles were produced in America were made in two ways, either with a rifled barrel, or with a smooth bored barrel, hence the term "smooth rifle", which refers to a gun with rifle architecture but with a smooth barrel. A count of the guns in Shumway's books will give a number of about 55-60% with rifling, and the rest smooth. So Hawkeye's gun could have been a smoothbore, but I am certain it was not meant to be so. There were plenty of rifles advertised in the newspapers of the time. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Why did Alice really jump?
