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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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 Posted - March 23 2003 : 07:25:28 AM
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When all is said and done, the actions will speak for themselves. There is little point in discussing the whys & hows ... it will be what it will be. In the end, America & its coalition will be vindicated ... or, they won't.
As most of you know, I fully support this action. I pray for the coalition forces that they will find the ways & means to succeed quickly & with minimal casualties. I pray that George W. Bush continues with the fortitude and vision to see this through. And, I am grateful for the International support we are receiving, particularly from countries like Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Australia, Poland, The Netherlands, and even some of Iraq's neighbors for assistance given in a variety of ways.
The going figures to get tougher ...
As it should be, site visitation has plummeted the past several days. I know I was glued to the TV most all day yesterday. This is amazing history happening right before our eyes.
God Bless Our Troops! God Bless the coalition!
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Rich
Mohican Press
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 09:56:54 AM
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Well said, Sachem.
I would like to add this:
For our troops and for our President....
Huzzah!..... Huzzah!..... Huzzah!
And... God Bless America!
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 10:49:36 AM
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I know I was glued to the TV most all day yesterday.
And I was most of last night. I watched the live pictures from the combat areas. This was a major event. Imagine what it would have been like to have had that technology at Tarawa or Normandy or Verdun! |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 11:21:47 AM
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| I'm sure that everyone is in prayer for our military, its leaders, and indeed our nation at this time. Regardles of where you stand on this or wherever your convictions lie I believe that these young men and women in uniform should be foremost in our thoughts and prayers. |
Theresa |
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ladylight
Ye Olde Towne Crier
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 11:49:06 AM
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Hi Richfed Rex,
Yes, I support the troops wholeheartedly.
Yes I was against the war, because I am against ANY war, alas, it has begun, and those Iraqis who will survive, WILL have a better life henceforth. But we have to realize that many of those will also be out there, happily, and giddily, attempt to attack and kill us.
I did want Turkey to help open the Northern Front, campaigned for it, and am very sorry that MOB RULE, fueled by anti-American sentiment, fed by the copious anti-Turkish sentiment shown here which was then elaborately presented to the Turkish public, prevented this short-cut which would have ended the war quicker.
May God Save All the Innocents!
And May God Bless America, ALWAYS!
Amen.
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Anthony
Deerslayer
USA
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July 03 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 12:39:49 PM
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| didn't Bush Bless his Men before he 'MADE'/Forced them fight? :)ANTH |
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ladylight
Ye Olde Towne Crier
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 12:59:33 PM
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Yes, Anthony, he did.
What they need more, are our blessings and prayers, since I am sure they really did not wish to fly to the other side of the world and take innocent lives.
Live and let live.
Perhaps, one day, our species will advance high enough on the evolutionate ladder to...
Yeah, perhaps.
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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July 08 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 1:20:13 PM
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| Rich,You and I have been in a couple of battles together and you know I'm no pacifist.Hell,we even met on the battlefield (sidewalk to street).There's just too much monkey business going on with this action.Lainey presents it well,more than I could ever post.I am an American,there are vets and fighters in my family.I wanted to go to Vietnam so bad and just missed the draft.Lucky me.I know people are so angry about 9/11 and just want to kick somebody's ass for it.Most of the hijackers were Saudi's.There is no freedom of religion over there either.Why not bomb Saudi Arabia? You know darn well Al-queda is there.Everyone says that Saddam is another Hitler.Watch out for that dude in North Korea that has Red China as a friend.We created the problems in Iraq.He's our monster.Now we got to lose soldiers over this.Now our military orders our soldiers to hide their religion.Liberation? Freedom? I just can't shake the oil connection here.I pray so hard for our troops to come home and get the hell out of there because those S.O.B.'s hate us anyway.I cringe when I think of soldiers losing their lives over there.Our big fight will be with North Korea and Red China.Then the shows over.We came to being with the big bang and leave with the big bang.Fight we must,but let's get it straight first.All available male staff to Bagdad? Hmmmmmmm. |
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Anthony
Deerslayer
USA
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July 03 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 1:31:51 PM
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| i bet theres some sad sack out there watching all this TV bloodshed n saying ...yeah... get em ....kill em guys get those iraq peoples ewwww .....if theres any Logic in and eye for an eye ....yr sadly Misled n mislplaced... anyone who condones rooting for a kill thrill no matter who it is is well VERY VERY sad n all this posting n much polarazation on many bbs i see, is what Bush caused Unrest n Sadness, whio sarts a war in a Bad recesssion and who thinks its Not Just about OIl Bush is from money n pwer n oil... think think.. n be wel anth |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 6:42:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
didn't Bush Bless his Men before he 'MADE'/Forced them fight? :)ANTH
Last time I looked, Anthony, this is a VOLUNTEER army. When these brave and unselfish people enlisted they knew perfectly well that at some point someday they could/would be called into service. But, that's not what this thread is about. It's about uniting our hearts with prayer for those in this battle...you can certainly do that, can't you? |
Theresa |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 7:12:59 PM
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Thanks, Theresa.....you said it all. Our troops knew exactly what they were VOLUNTEERING for, and accepted it.
These soldiers ALL need our prayers......from EVERYONE.
Seamus |
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Brenda
Pioneer
Canada
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June 17 2002
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Posted - March 23 2003 : 10:26:07 PM
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| My prayers go with the coalition, and all the innocents who are and will be injured or killed on both sides. I was talking to an Iraqis man the other day, and he was so torn about this war that it was heartbreaking. One the one hand, he is ecstatic that something is finally being done about Saddam Hussein, and is excited that he may be able to go to Iraq to see his family which he has not been able to do for the last decade. On the other hand, most of his family is in Iraq, with quite a few in the city of Bagdad itself. |
“They say that you're never as wise as when you're a child. We'll never think that clearly again.”
From Arlington Road (1999)
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 10:24:21 AM
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As was stated before... Our military forces are voluntary. They serve at the pleasure of their Commander in Chief (the President for those who may not know). That's what they train for and that's what they do.
They have the faith that the President and his advisors will make decisions in the best intrest of the United States and the world at large. Their faith generally does not allow them to question those decisions.
The decisions he and his advisors make are based on intelligence that far exceeds anything we may see on CNN or other news media. They are updated on current events on the half hour and sometimes more frequently than that.
With that said... I'll climb down. This is starting to resemble a thread better suited for the Lion's Den... a place I don't like to frequent.
Marc
USMC (retired)
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 11:00:25 AM
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| Well said, Marc. Glad you showed up here. |
Theresa |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 12:12:22 PM
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Thank you, Sir! And I salute you! |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Anthony
Deerslayer
USA
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July 03 2002
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 12:46:39 PM
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| we have family n some friends relatives n friends fighting there, do YOU? and 'no' i am not praying ...let Bush do that im just hoping there home and run away from danger. while there, they never Volunteered to fight or die but join to be a proud american yes and im sure they all prayed n hoped they were not going .......... Bush should pray for them .... not me,,............a tuff yet reality thinking ....anth |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 1:23:51 PM
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"Seamus, old boy..." he says to himself, "....patience, tolerance, bite thy tongue. It takes all kinds--ALL KINDS--and remember, Lad, 'they' are free to speak their minds as they wish. This is AMERICA! They are guaranteed that Right.'They' would not be so bold 'over there'......for long. Yet, should 'they' ever need help from those they despise, guess who would be first in line screaming the loudest!!? Your Godson in the 101st Airborne....yes, he is there, and you worry about him constantly....he is trained to do what HE HAS CHOSEN as his walk in life...his career....his CHOICE, and he is good, DAMNED good! He may be injured or worse over there, but I would venture to say he is safer there than in some places in the US you could name. Remember where you were this past weekend and remember what you heard (a running gun battle involving automatic weapons, sirens all over the place coming from everywhere. This went on as long as the Marines' little 4 hour skirmish the other morning) and saw (Police helicopters hovering overhead, directing ground troops; a dead man lying across a set of steps in front of a house, and THIS was in a different section than the gunfight. Packs of men of all descriptions, on every street corner, watching and waiting for an opportunity to do whatever, not unlike a pack of hyenas)......."
God, I used to love Baltimore..........
I will continue to pray for our troops, and I will continue to pray for innocent Iraqi civilians, and I will add the naysayers and their like to the list. And I will fight to the death to protect their right to say what they want. May God bless you, too."
Now......where did I put that bottle of the mysterious Amber Liquid? |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 3:42:41 PM
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May the Good Lord bless your Godson, Seamus, and keep him safe from harm. Just think of the stories ye two soldiers can share with each other when he has returned home!
(Oh, and... congratulations on your remarkable constraint. But... was that the sound of gritting teeth I heard?)
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Anthony
Deerslayer
USA
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - March 24 2003 : 8:50:10 PM
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| I'll remember your Godson in my prayers, Seamus, along with my dear friend's son who is a marine in northern Kuwait, as well as all of our troops as they embark on this very dangerous phase of this endeavor. God bless them all and thank you, God, for their courage and selflessness. |
Theresa |
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 08:33:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
we have family n some friends relatives n friends fighting there, do YOU? and 'no' i am not praying ...let Bush do that im just hoping there home and run away from danger. while there, they never Volunteered to fight or die but join to be a proud american yes and im sure they all prayed n hoped they were not going .......... Bush should pray for them .... not me,,............a tuff yet reality thinking ....anth
Anthony... you are obviously passionate about your beliefs and I whole heartedly support you right to be that passionate. I also support your right to voice that passion.
I retired from the Marine Corps four years ago after spending twenty years on active duty. In addition to my twenty years of active service, I currently work aboard Marine Corps Base, Quantico and have done so for the last four years. So, in actuality I've spent the last twenty four years of my life working for the Marine Corps in one capacity or other. Disclaimer: My opinions may be a little bias, but that's human nature.
Do I have family in Iraq? No.
Do I have friends over there? You bet! Do I have friends awaiting deployment over there? Yes. I support each and everyone one of them. I pray for them and those currently in Iraq. I wish them a quick victory and a speedy and safe return.
I'm quite aware of the commitment it takes to do what they do and have the utmost respect for them. Obviously, not everyone can dedicate themselves in the manner that our service members have. The point is, someone has to otherwise we'd be speaking a different language every ten years.
Please don't take this response as confrontational... that's not the purpose of my reply. I'm simply stating that unless your last name is Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Rice... or the like... there's no way the intelligence (information) you have can possibly qualify you to say for certain that the President isn't acting in the best interest of the United States or the world as a whole. Statements based on anything less than current and reliable intelligence are best left unsaid.
Marc |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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July 08 2002
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 10:34:35 AM
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| Marc,All my respect to you but I have one question.I do not know your religious affilliation. If a soldier is ordered to remove and conceal a religious symbol,either a Cross or Bible,would you think that order was proper and should the soldier follow it? If the soldier disobeyed,would a court martial follow? This is happening among the troops now over there ( ordered to remove religious items) this goes against everything we stand for as a nation which stands for freedom.It seems everytime I mention this,people act like it's not a big deal when it is.It is a short term denial of God and then they go and fight for God.Unless you are a Muslim-American,then you will probably be able to wear the crescent of Islam around your neck.This is totally wrong but the military is doing it to our soldiers.I would not follow such an order.The penalty? Maybe you can tell me. |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 10:37:55 AM
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| Now that Russia is helping Iraq what do we do? Do we head straight to Moscow now from Baghdad? |
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 11:38:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by securemann
Marc,All my respect to you but I have one question.I do not know your religious affilliation. If a soldier is ordered to remove and conceal a religious symbol,either a Cross or Bible,would you think that order was proper and should the soldier follow it? If the soldier disobeyed,would a court martial follow? This is happening among the troops now over there ( ordered to remove religious items) this goes against everything we stand for as a nation which stands for freedom.It seems everytime I mention this,people act like it's not a big deal when it is.It is a short term denial of God and then they go and fight for God.Unless you are a Muslim-American,then you will probably be able to wear the crescent of Islam around your neck.This is totally wrong but the military is doing it to our soldiers.I would not follow such an order.The penalty? Maybe you can tell me.
That's a difficult situation, but here's my take and personal opinion. They tell you when you get to boot camp (at one point or other) that you basically gave up your rights, to defend the rights of others. The military is not a democracy nor a republic. You do what you're told to do, when you're told to do it and how you were taught/told to do it. In extreme situations (hmmm... like, war), if you don't, people could die.
I don't know the specific reason service members are being told to remove their religious medalions. But I can't help thinking (for the reasons you mention above) there must be an awfully good reason for it.
If ordered to remove medalions and don't, could they be charged? Sure. It's been done before. Remember the Anthrax inoculations a few years back? If a service member is being asked to do or not do something they believe to be inappropriate, there are procedures in place to respectfully object and have their objections heard by their superiors. If they are in fact being asked to do something objectional, the order can be rescinded by higher authority. There are ramifications to that though since you can be viewed as "not being a team player".
If they don't comply, initially at least, they would most likely face what is referred to as NJP ((Non-judicial Punishment), also referred to as Article 15). It's a less formal method of punishment similiar to being grounded by your parents, not getting your allowance for a couple weeks, and possibly having to do extra work around the house for a month (or variations of the three). But... if they really dig in I suppose it could escalate to a court martial. Particularly, if a number of people jump on the band wagon.
I suppose we could get into more serious issues regarding the following of orders. Let's say issues revolving around the use of deadly force... such as you see a guy running across a parking lot and a senior ranking service member tells you to shoot that person. You didn't see them do anything wrong and as far as you know there's no reason to shoot them. This is where the drama starts. If you shoot them and there actually ended up being no reason for it... then both you and the the senior service member are charged with murder. If you don't, and there was cause... you end up getting fried. It basically ends being a personal decision. However, people have to remember they are responsible for their actions. Some actions have dramatic effects and some don't. You have to pick your battles and being willing to pay the price.
Service members simply have to remember that they took an oath at their enlistment or commissioning ceremony saying they'd follow the orders of those appointed over them. I personal belief is that, my word is my word. Fortunately, I never had anyone appointed over me during my twenty years that asked m |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 4:07:15 PM
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| The reason they are told to remove and conceal their faith is because it is illegal in Saudi Arabia,Kuwait and those other little Arab nations below to display anything related to Christianity.We are there saving their rear-ends and they dictate to our military about what to wear in regards to religion.Then the military higher-ups orders the soldiers to remove and conceal their faith.Now one needs to remember in order to be in good standing with the Almighty,one cannot deny him NO MATTER WHO THE AUTHORITY IS that tells him to. I know people will say well I keep it in my heart and the symbols mean nothing.Anyone educated in early church history will know that those who gave up scriptures to the enemy were branded as apostates.Giving up bibles over there qualifies.Anyway,the choice is there.Who will you follow.Our military gives us no choice.Total contradiction for what we stand for.They can only display their faith on base,that's it.I wish Bush would really address this problem over there since he claims to be a believer.This is only one of the problems that plagues this war. |
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Lady Ann
Pioneer
USA
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May 20 2002
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 5:33:09 PM
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It is correct to say that open display of the symbols of Christianity is illegal in Saudi Arabia, but it is unfair to the military to couch an order that in effect says "Respect the laws of the country where our base is located" as an effort to suppress religion in our armed forces. We certainly expect Saudis visiting our country to respect its laws...that issue has become controversial here in my hometown of Orlando Florida, where recently a Saudi student was prohibited from obtaining a driver's license because her religion required her to wear the chador...and the Florida DMV requires that licenses contain a picture of the holder with the face fully uncovered. Each country has the right to enact its laws and to expect, within its borders, that those laws be respected. Whether or not we agree with those laws and whether or not they seem reasonable to us, we must abide by them, as guests in the country, or risk arrest. Given the severity of punishment in Saudi Arabia, the military orders regarding display of religious symbols can be seen as protective of its own. No one is demanding a denial of faith. We have to remember that the United States is unique in this world in that, in most cases, we have the right to openly practice whatever religion we choose, to say whatever we believe and to print what we believe is the truth. Here, we have those rights. In other countries, where other laws apply, we do not.
Note that I have even clarified those rights in the United States. There are still governmental venues where certain religions will never be invited to give the invocation and places of business where people professing certain faiths will never get jobs. And there are still people in this country who dare not openly display the symbols of their religion for fear of social and economic isolation. Over the years this has slowly been changing, but it still occurs.
In short, this is one instance where the military should not be berated. Instead, we should be glad that laws to which we are subject are what they are.
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