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Cherie
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 02 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - March 25 2003 : 6:32:17 PM
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| I believe it's just plain called RESPECT. |
Support our Country, our President and our Troops |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 7:54:41 PM
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| Believe me,if I was fighting in a battle where I could lose my life at any moment,I would be wearing my faith and no one would be able to make me remove it.Loyalty to God supercedes any political motive.This separates the faithful from the lukewarm.As I said before,I'm not a pacifist and would fight in any JUST war.Just don't tell me to deny my faith then ask me to die. |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 25 2003 : 9:08:31 PM
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| Remember, the majority of the hijackers were Saudis.The same country that prohibits our soldiers from professing their faith in public.Now we die for them. Respect?? |
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - March 25 2003 : 11:02:35 PM
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Jim,
You're killing me here! 
Can't leave you singing solo.
It's so, so simple & you're so, so correct to stomp your foot in protest.
Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's; Render unto God, that which belongs to God. When one signs on to fight for his country he gives his body in service to his nation, not his soul. Relinquishing your expression or confession of faith because ordered to do so has ALWAYS been viewed as apostasy. It doesn't matter how others view its necessity, it matters that you remain faithful to your conscience - ESPECIALLY at a time when you might very well lose your life.
Sorry that not even one other person has seemed to understand this.
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"Fides et Ratio" |
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - March 25 2003 : 11:11:08 PM
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Greetings all,
Well, I never usually give my opinion in these discussions because normally I hate politics, but speaking for myself, I'm p*ssed off on this whole war thing because from my understanding (or want of) it should've been all taken care of in the last war. It seems at this point though that war is a necessary evil.
As far as the wearing of religious symbols, icons, etc... Personally, I think that if it isn't in your heart already, then you should look deeper. The wearing of a religious symbol shouldn't dictate your faith. It's either with you or it isn't. Whatever faith you belong to, simply because of that faith, you are loved and blessed - you are fortunate that you have the strength to love others regardless of their opinions. It's up to all of us having these discussions to keep that in mind.
Anyway, I will now take the last two cents of my thoughts and say in this little disclaimer that my views are not meant to insult anyone, nor create a huge debate. Guess I just wanted to use my "American" right to freely express my thoughts.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of our troops and the coalition risking their lives for our freedoms. May the innocents of war also be protected and may the families of all be in peace. My deepest thanks and gratitude to all veterans.
Caitlin
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Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - March 25 2003 : 11:37:37 PM
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quote:
As far as the wearing of religious symbols, icons, etc... Personally, I think that if it isn't in your heart already, then you should look deeper. The wearing of a religious symbol shouldn't dictate your faith. It's either with you or it isn't.
Wearing religious symbols OR carrying a Bible is not a matter of dictating faith, it is an expression of it. An expression that is not up for vote by others. To suggest that outward expressions are replacements for faith is incorrect. Those of us who do wear crucifixes, read scripture, & pray are not wanting in faith. Quite the contrary. |
"Fides et Ratio" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - March 26 2003 : 05:09:30 AM
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I repeat:
When all is said and done, the actions will speak for themselves. There is little point in discussing the whys & hows ... it will be what it will be. In the end, America & its coalition will be vindicated ... or, they won't.
As most of you know, I fully support this action. I pray for the coalition forces that they will find the ways & means to succeed quickly & with minimal casualties. I pray that George W. Bush continues with the fortitude and vision to see this through. And, I am grateful for the International support we are receiving, particularly from countries like Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Australia, Poland, The Netherlands, and even some of Iraq's neighbors for assistance given in a variety of ways.
The going figures to get tougher ...
As it should be, site visitation has plummeted the past several days. I know I was glued to the TV most all day yesterday. This is amazing history happening right before our eyes.
God Bless Our Troops! God Bless the coalition! |
Rich
Mohican Press
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 08:13:05 AM
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As it turns out, my office here on Quantico is located right next to one of the Chaplins offices. I happened to pass one of the priests this morning and asked him about the medalion and bible thing over in Iraq. He told me that the service members have only been asked (probably ordered... I've never known a preist to order anything) to not openly display those items. They can still carry the items on them just not in the open. I also asked him if doing so could be considered "denying God". His comment was that while he couldn't comment on what some people may or may not believe personally... he didn't believe the request denied God at all. He further stated that if he were in Iraq and an Iraqi (sp?) asked him if he were a christian, he wouldn't deny it. So, my take on the conversation was that it's possible to be a christian (or insert religion of choice), honor your God, and still adhere to the order.
I will state that wearing of religious medalions is allowed in the Marine Corps. However, the medalions will not be worn in a fashion that allows it to be seen while in uniform. So, while the request in Iraq may seem unusual to non-Marine Corps types... it's nothing the average Marine hasn't already been exposed to. In the twenty some odd years of my active duty (two years of it as a Drill Instructor), I've never had anyone complain that they couldn't wear their religious symbol on the outside of their uniform. Everybody who wears one generally keeps it neatly tucked away in a pocket or under their T-shirt.
I don't believe this issue would ever be resolved for some people. It's obviously a very personal concern and people are going to agree or not agree.
Marc |
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Cherie
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 02 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 11:36:05 AM
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| Is is not also true Marc that No Jewelry of any kind, religious or not, is allowed to be worn outside the uniform ? |
Support our Country, our President and our Troops |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 12:07:18 PM
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| Thanks for the response Marc,well appreciated! There was never an issue about wearing outside the dress uniform,that's understandable.It was only about out in the field,in battle or in the public when not in dress uniform.I guess the big thing is the ORDER to remove and conceal.Just like the priest said,it would up to the individual and how strong his faith is. Sometimes we have to make a decision that's not too popular with the world but would be rewarded greatly in the next. |
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 12:14:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cherie
Is is not also true Marc that No Jewelry of any kind, religious or not, is allowed to be worn outside the uniform ?
Well... in the Marine Corps (while in uniform) men and women are allowed to wear rings provided they don't draw attention to themselves (to the jewelry that is). Obviously, wedding bands/rings are permitted as well as school/association rings. Again... they must be relatively conservative in nature.
Women are allowed to wear regulation approved earrings while in dress uniforms (mostly posts), but they are not authorized while wearing camoflauged utilities.
Marc |
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 12:24:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by securemann
Thanks for the response Marc,well appreciated! There was never an issue about wearing outside the dress uniform,that's understandable.It was only about out in the field,in battle or in the public when not in dress uniform.I guess the big thing is the ORDER to remove and conceal.Just like the priest said,it would up to the individual and how strong his faith is. Sometimes we have to make a decision that's not too popular with the world but would be rewarded greatly in the next.
You're welcome. Actually, while I didn't inspect everyone's seabag (luggage to you non-military types), I'd be surprised if anyone over there has a dress uniform. I'll bet they only packed their field uniforms (i.e., cammies) and field gear to save on weight. While I can't speak for the other services, Marines must conceal (at all times) any medalions while wearing cammies too. I've noticed many times that Marines that wear religious medalions while in the field, will generally take them from around their necks, loop them through a belt loop and keep them in their pocket. I've never worn any type of medalion and can't comment on whether that's more convenient or not. It must be for some though.
Marc |
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