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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - November 07 2009 : 12:18:18 PM
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Benteen, here's another angle to throw at him, although I doubt it will do any good. Reno testified that he would not and could not move out until he received the ammunition packs as his men had expended their ammo in the valley fight. When the ammo packs arrived only a relatively small portion of ammunition was retrieved. Nevertheless, another hour elapsed before any attempt to move out was initiated.
az's inference about"supplying the Indians" is made ludicrous as the packs did arrive on Reno Hill. How then could he surmise that the Indians would get then if "cut" out?
Another prime example of the man's bizarre comments that simply floor me. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 07 2009 : 12:20:22 PM
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Benteen, here's another angle to throw at him, although I doubt it will do any good. Reno testified that he would not and could not move out until he received the ammunition packs as his men had expended their ammo in the valley fight. When the ammo packs arrived only a relatively small portion of ammunition was retrieved. Nevertheless, another hour elapsed before any attempt to move out was initiated.
az's inference about"supplying the Indians" is made ludicrous as the packs did arrive on Reno Hill. How then could he surmise that the Indians would get then if "cut" out?
Another prime example of the man's bizarre comments that simply floor me. |
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 07 2009 : 12:37:56 PM
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Joe, Your right about this. There were several things that don't add up here. Most people today tend to, or try to put Benteen "in charge". However, clearly it was Reno who had control at this juncture. If my memory serves me, Lt. Hare was sent back to retrieve the ammo packs not long after their arrival there. And he stated that it took him something like 20 minutes round trip to go there and come back, and again, if memory serves me he said he found them about a mile or two away. He also stated that he didn't come back with the packs, but let them come back on their own, however, the pack tender, again forgive me, was it Churchill or Frett? who said that it took him about 10 minutes to get to Reno's position, which when one looks at it appears as though Hare and the pack mules would have arrived back at Reno's position at about the same time.
Now I don't know how long it would have taken to have distributed ammunition to about 112 men (minus wounded/dead), but I would assume that it would not have taken 40 minutes to have done that.
The other inconsistency is Benteen's statement about the packs being between him and the Indians and he was not concerned about loosing them, presumably because they, the Indians, would have had to have gone through him to have broke through to them. What doesn't make sense here is if Benteen felt that way, why on earth would Reno have not felt the same way and went on ahead? Now I know what he stated, but there appears to be evidence that they did leave shortly after the pack mules arrived. And there appears to have been a great confusion over who left when, and where they actually went to, and even how far.
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Edited by - Benteen on November 07 2009 12:40:06 PM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 07 2009 : 2:44:33 PM
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Excellent response! Your summation is right on the money. The ammunition was packed on packsaddles (appareros) and not on the traditional "sawbucks" as were the other supplies. Therefore they were easily recognizable to everyone.
Secondly, as you pointed out, when two separate commands unite, the senior officer present is "de facto and de juro" commander of the two units. Therefore Reno was in command and responsible for all subsequent actions on the hill and thereafter.
Captain McDougall had the pack train as well closed up as could be expected when and, was following Custer's trail until he received Kanipe's message. Then, and only at that point, he directed the train to turn right towards Reno's position. Lt. Mathey directed Ben Churchill,Frank Mann and two others to "cut" out two ammunition mules. Each mule carried 2000 rounds. In less than ten minutes,after receiving the notification, the two mules arrived at Reno's hill.
Upon arrival, the packers began unpacking the ammunition when they were instructed to repack the mules. Pvt. John McGuire "C" Company, who was assigned to the pack train, recalled no boxes were open upon arrival. The packers reported the same. Lt. Mathey agreed with his two packers and did not remember any ammunition being distributed.
Lt. Wallace said one box was open but not all its contents were taken by the troopers. How do you explain these factors if the shortage of ammunition at Reno's command was so critical? Instead, when 4000 rounds arrived Reno still didn't order an advance because he decided to wait for the rest of the pack train. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 08:42:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Benteen
Lets try it this way Ranger. How many Indians do you suppose there was attacking Custer, and put that in terms of odds... in other words convert the numbers into odds. Back in 1876 anything over 3 to 1 odds and if your position was being flanked, you were toast.
Now go back to Reno's valley fight and figure out how long they stayed there on the SL on an average. That total is somewhere in the vicinity of 30 minutes. Each trooper firing 3 rounds a minute, once every 20 seconds would easily expend 90 rounds of ammo in 30 minutes. And in an hour?
Now go on and talk about judicious use of ammo of those who were facing the odds you state. Coup sticks anyone?
I have no clue where you get 30 minutes on a single skirmish line with Custer. I believe there was lots of movement and a final CQB. I don't see any indication that the Indians stayed to the front of any skirmish line. I will not engage in you math exercises because in my opinion it did not happen that way.
The only persons that know if there was any ammunition left were the Indians so lets put posts from Indian accounts that address the ammunition.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 08:59:08 AM
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Daniel Kanipe's Story of the Battle
A 7th Cavalry survivor's account of the Battle of the Little Bighorn
From the Greensboro, N. C., Daily Record, April 27, 1924
"Tell McDougall," he said, "to bring the pack train straight across to high ground -- if packs get loose don't stop to fix them, cut them off. Come quick. Big Indian camp."
So Joe tell us how you know better than what Kanipe states in his account. This is the problem I have with both you and Benteen. You think your opinions are facts and no one should have an opinion different from yours.
So exactly what packs is Kanipe stating "to cut them off"?
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 09:14:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
Benteen, here's another angle to throw at him, although I doubt it will do any good. Reno testified that he would not and could not move out until he received the ammunition packs as his men had expended their ammo in the valley fight. When the ammo packs arrived only a relatively small portion of ammunition was retrieved. Nevertheless, another hour elapsed before any attempt to move out was initiated.
az's inference about"supplying the Indians" is made ludicrous as the packs did arrive on Reno Hill. How then could he surmise that the Indians would get then if "cut" out?
Another prime example of the man's bizarre comments that simply floor me.
This shows what Joe? that you don't understand again. The ammunition is on the best mules and arrive at least an hour before the last mule.
When at the morass the mules were strung out for miles. Mathey and McDougall were so far behind they never saw Benteen, I believe. Benteen moves at trot down Reno Creek until he meets Reno. If the rear of the pack train is walking and miles behind Benteen then after Benteen's trot down Reno Creek how much further behind is the end? Stopping to close up if it happened does make the end of the pack train go any faster it travels at the same rate.
AZ Ranger
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 09:26:52 AM
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The other inconsistency is Benteen's statement about the packs being between him and the Indians and he was not concerned about loosing them, presumably because they, the Indians, would have had to have gone through him to have broke through to them. What doesn't make sense here is if Benteen felt that way, why on earth would Reno have not felt the same way and went on ahead? Now I know what he stated, but there appears to be evidence that they did leave shortly after the pack mules arrived. And there appears to have been a great confusion over who left when, and where they actually went to, and even how far.
Come on Benteen I expect better out of you. Benteen is talking about moving down Reno Creek and he is between the Indians and the pack train when he receives the Martin note. You can not state the same for Reno's position if he moved toward Custer. Since Indians move without formations the flank and rear of Reno's movement to Custer would be exposed along the bluffs and certainly in MTC if proceeded to go further.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 11:31:22 AM
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quote:
Come on Benteen I expect better out of you. Benteen is talking about moving down Reno Creek and he is between the Indians and the pack train when he receives the Martin note. You can not state the same for Reno's position if he moved toward Custer. Since Indians move without formations the flank and rear of Reno's movement to Custer would be exposed along the bluffs and certainly in MTC if proceeded to go further.
Again Ranger, you are “assuming” locations”. Which from your post, you obviously do not know. How can one even ponder the outcomes if one does not know the “locations”? Chain several of these “events” together and you will see what I mean. Benteen’s men hit that “morass”, and according to Benteen’s men the Pack animals rushed forward and several plunged into that “morass” before they left. At “no” time did Reno nor Custer’s men “ever” report seeing, watering or stopping at “that morass”. The only conclusion here is what? That the pack train followed Benteen’s column and “not” Custer’s and Reno’s columns.
Further proof of this is not only Benteen’s statement concerning the Indians and the pack train, but also where the lead mules of that pack train was when Hare caught up with it on his journey back to retrieve the ammo packs, 1 to 2 miles away from Reno and Benteen’s position at that time.
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“When at the morass the mules were strung out for miles. Mathey and McDougall were so far behind they never saw Benteen, I believe. Benteen moves at trot down Reno Creek until he meets Reno. If the rear of the pack train is walking and miles behind Benteen then after Benteen's trot down Reno Creek how much further behind is the end? Stopping to close up if it happened does make the end of the pack train go any faster it travels at the same rate.”
“This shows what Joe? that you don't understand again. The ammunition is on the best mules and arrive at least an hour before the last mule.”
Not so, go back to McDougall’s statement at the COI about closing up before proceeding on. And this occurred near the Morass, and according to statements made about this “close-up” it took only about 15 minutes. Mathey’s statement also indicated that the train did not stop at the Morass for any great length of time, in fact, it’s almost as if they never let them stop to water at all.
The location of this “Morass” then was “not” on, along or near Reno Creek., which is what every man that spoke of it in Benteen’s battalion stated, by distances. And you can’t even begin to place Benteen on, along, or near Reno Creek at that time, why? From another post on another thread, “Since Reno hit the village side of the river and engaged bringing the Indians to battle what 3/4s of the regiment are left. Benteen was on a recon in force/blocking mission and Custer went north.” Here we see evidence that you don’t even know where Benteen went to. You detail both Reno and Custer’s events by direction, but say this about Benteen’s: “Benteen was on a recon in force/blocking mission.” Where? Where did he go Ranger?
If one goes off at an angle of 45 degrees and does so for even an hour, how far away would he have been from where those two opposing lines of travel terminated? And 2 hours? And he was supposed to have done what to get back? Back-tracked back to that Morass, met the Pack train and still have done what to get where? Now place into all of this equation that Morass, Hare’s 20 minute round trip ride back to retrieve the packs; the time it took the pack train to go from that morass to the hill position where Reno and Benteen were, and what doesn’t add up is that mileage from where the Morass was to where that pack train traveled to get where it did to meet Hare. They had to have had warp drive. Either that, or that morass was a lot closer to that “line of bluffs”. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 3:21:30 PM
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| Benteen was in Reno Creek when he met Martin. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 3:46:21 PM
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And who said that the were on "Reno Creek"?
The best one can do is determine that they were on some kind of tributary, and there were many of those.
Also of the "diverging trail", there was more than one of those also. Which one? |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 6:59:39 PM
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I believe there was lots of movement and a final CQB. I don't see any indication that the Indians stayed to the front of any skirmish line. I will not engage in you math exercises because in my opinion it did not happen that way.
AZ Ranger
There you have it folks. The intellectual, mature, comprehensive rationale by az, "because in my opinion it did not happen that way."
Enough said. I have posted before that you can not be taken seriously not because I was trying to be cruel but, because the mind must remain open to all possibilities. Something you are unwilling to do. Argumentative, you are blind to any reasonable assumptions other than your own. This inability to see other views places you in the same field as dc. Ironically, the more "truth" is presented to you the more antagonistic and insulting you become.
In truth, I sometimes feel sorry for you because, unlike dc, you do feel passion for what you believe. dc is just an unmitigated jerk. |
Edited by - joe wiggs on November 08 2009 7:10:56 PM |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 7:44:03 PM
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You are pathetic. I ask Benteen to produce Indian accounts that Custer was on a skirmish line for 30 minutes. Produce an Indian account that all of the troopers were out of ammuntion.
Instead Benteen wants to a math exercise for something that there is no accounts that it happened that way.
Joe you fabricate so much that you probably do have opinions that you don't believe in at the time you express them. If you provide evidence that there are Indian accounts that there was no ammuntion left after the Custer battle we can discuss it but the evidence shows that they fired at Reno with ammunition taken from? The dead soldiers from Custer maybe?
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 8:36:16 PM
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What, Ranger? Can't you believe Benteen, Edgerly and nearly every other trooper who stated that it wasn't over a half hour?
You accurse me of 'professing' and have the audacity to DO THE VERY SAME THING YOURSELF - here and now. You accurse me of "not doing a proper research", yet YOU DO THE VERY SAME THING, here and now, and think it fine? Should my answer have been as terse and as senseless as yours? "Do your own research"?
Unfortunately Joe is right: "Ironically, the more "truth" is presented to you the more antagonistic and insulting you become."
And when presented with a fact you cannot refute, what do you do, Ranger?
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And who said that they were on "Reno Creek"?
The best one can do is determine that they were on some kind of tributary, and there were many of those.
Also of the "diverging trail", there was more than one of those also. Which one?
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Edited by - Benteen on November 08 2009 8:45:03 PM |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 10:06:59 PM
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And when presented with a fact you cannot refute, what do you do, Ranger?
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And who said that they were on "Reno Creek"?
The best one can do is determine that they were on some kind of tributary, and there were many of those.
Also of the "diverging trail", there was more than one of those also. Which one?
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Again you show a lack of understanding of a fact. There is no fact in you post above. So there is no fact to refute.
Quit wasting our time with you thinking your opinions are fact they are not. You still haven't produced what you stated was in Reno's official report and that is a fact.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 10:13:30 PM
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What, Ranger? Can't you believe Benteen, Edgerly and nearly every other trooper who stated that it wasn't over a half hour?
How could Benteen or Ederly state how long Custer was on skirmish line? I think Benteen's scattered corn comes to mind as his description of the troopers on the battlefield.
I asked you for Indian accounts that there was no ammunition left over in Custers battle. You are the one that deviated to some math problem with Reno in the valley. We were discussing Custer's need for the ammunition when he sent Martin. It was my statement that Reno was in more need than Custer since he was engaging when Custer sent Martin. If anything you math problem supports my position in regards to Reno but sheds no light on Custer's need for ammunition when he sent Martin.
I think your on the sauce again.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on November 08 2009 10:27:44 PM |
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2009 : 10:54:37 PM
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Great way to do this Ranger. Personal attacks. Lets see here, so far you have demeaned, smeared, insulted, humiliated and disgraced everything i've stated. And the one thing you have said that I have not done is...lied about Mathey's company. If I am honorable in that manner then why not honorable in others?
You still don't get it do you. This isn't about US. Not one person out there gives a damn about my personality, nor for that matter yours. As for the sauce issue, you'd better find an outlet fast...
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I asked you for Indian accounts that there was no ammunition left over in Custers battle. You are the one that deviated to some math problem with Reno in the valley. We were discussing Custer's need for the ammunition when he sent Martin. It was my statement that Reno was in more need than Custer since he was engaging when Custer sent Martin. If anything you math problem supports my position in regards to Reno but sheds no light on Custer's need for ammunition when he sent Martin.
Because, the Indians don't matter, the timing does. Because, Custer was already engaged before Reno left the timber. Custer didn't have a half an hour to spare. By the time that Kanipe's message would have arrived, taking at least some 30 minutes to accomplish, do you honestly think Custer's desperate order through Kanipe was a ruse? Something to be shrugged off by the time that order arrived at the pack train/Benteen? Indeed Ranger, just who the hell needed that ammo more?
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Edited by - Benteen on November 08 2009 10:56:11 PM |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2009 : 07:40:31 AM
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quote:
Because, Because, the Indians don't matter, the timing does. Because, Custer was already engaged before Reno left the timber. Custer didn't have a half an hour to spare. By the time that Kanipe's message would have arrived, taking at least some 30 minutes to accomplish, do you honestly think Custer's desperate order through Kanipe was a ruse? Something to be shrugged off by the time that order arrived at the pack train/Benteen? Indeed Ranger, just who the hell needed that ammo more?
, the timing does. Because, Custer was already engaged before Reno left the timber. Custer didn't have a half an hour to spare. By the time that Kanipe's message would have arrived, taking at least some 30 minutes to accomplish, do you honestly think Custer's desperate order through Kanipe was a ruse? Something to be shrugged off by the time that order arrived at the pack train/Benteen? Indeed Ranger, just who the hell needed that ammo more?
Now your insulting Joe when you state that " the Indians don't matter". There is no evidence to support(Custer's desperate order through Kanipe) at that the time Kanipe left his company behind even if you mean it is Tom Custer rather than the General.
Since Martin was sent after Kanipe and there was no desperation even at that time what was the desperation you speak of?
If Custer was desperate for ammunition then why move away from the ammunition faster than the ammunition can close the distance. In Reno's retrograde he moves toward the ammunition and the additional men with the pack train.
I believe individual troopers may have run out or at least did not have time to reload or retrieve ammunition. That is what happens when there is to many Indians willing to fight. Running off the horses with the ammunition is not the same as firing all the ammunition. The pack animals could also be run off and captured.
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2009 : 08:15:24 AM
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Now your insulting Joe when you state that " the Indians don't matter".
If Joe can produce something that I cannot, that is not "insulting", it's fact based upon evidence that I don't know. And Joe is more than welcome in my book to provide it, and so are you.
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There is no evidence to support(Custer's desperate order through Kanipe) at that the time Kanipe left his company behind even if you mean it is Tom Custer rather than the General.
One thing here at a time. Ever wonder why it was Tom? Could the good Gen. have been so busy at the time that he turned to his brother and said, "Tom send a messenger to hurry the packs and Benteen too." Could such an event happened? And if the origin of the intent originated with the General?
And you don't believe "any" desperate orders were ever sent from that battlefield, and the one that was you denounce?
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Since Martin was sent after Kanipe and there was no desperation even at that time what was the desperation you speak of?
What would Benteen's motive have been to have stated the reverse of an event that happened? And if he had admitted that Kanipe had indeed arrived after Martin at that COI? Benteen was no fool, and no, the Court didn't know how to get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth out of him; as he freely admitted. And he wasn't about to tell them that truth in this instance either, because of self incrimination.
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If Custer was desperate for ammunition then why move away from the ammunition faster than the ammunition can close the distance.
Did he? That's what has been "supposed" for over 135 years, and why is that, because of Benteen's covert operations, over miles of distances and times that "hint" at a "Reno Creek" location, where there was no morass, where there was "A ford" instead of "Ford A"?
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In Reno's retrograde he moves toward the ammunition and the additional men with the pack train.
And which direction was that? The location you need it to be is the same one that Benteen and Reno wanted you to believe it was. And no, he didn't he moved as Custer had ordered him to, directly back across the river, to the bluffs and thence onward to a junction with Custer.
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I believe individual troopers may have run out or at least did not have time to reload or retrieve ammunition. That is what happens when there is to many Indians willing to fight. Running off the horses with the ammunition is not the same as firing all the ammunition. The pack animals could also be run off and captured.
And could this, did this also happen on Custer's battlefield? And if, just if it did, would not it have been the commanding officers duty to have made the attempt to have acquired more? And was that attempt, either through Tom or through the Gen.l himself, just such an attempt under those same cicumstances AFTER Martin had long departed?
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Edited by - Benteen on November 09 2009 08:18:57 AM |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2009 : 08:22:51 AM
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quote:
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Now your insulting Joe when you state that " the Indians don't matter".
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If Joe can produce something that I cannot, that is not "insulting", it's fact based upon evidence that I don't know. And Joe is more than welcome in my book to provide it, and so are you.
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There is no evidence to support(Custer's desperate order through Kanipe) at that the time Kanipe left his company behind even if you mean it is Tom Custer rather than the General.
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One thing here at a time. Ever wonder why it was Tom? Could the good Gen. have been so busy at the time that he turned to his brother and said, "Tom send a messenger to hurry the packs and Benteen too." Could such an event happened? And if the origin of the intent originated with the General?
And you don't believe "any" desperate orders were ever sent from that battlefield, and the one that was you denounce?
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Since Martin was sent after Kanipe and there was no desperation even at that time what was the desperation you speak of?
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What would Benteen's motive have been to have stated the reverse of an event that happened? And if he had admitted that Kanipe had indeed arrived after Martin at that COI? Benteen was no fool, and no, the Court didn't know how to get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth out of him; as he freely admitted. And he wasn't about to tell them that truth in this instance either, because of self incrimination.
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If Custer was desperate for ammunition then why move away from the ammunition faster than the ammunition can close the distance.
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Did he? That's what has been "supposed" for over 135 years, and why is that, because of Benteen's covert operations, over miles of distances and times that "hint" at a "Reno Creek" location, where there was no morass, where there was "A ford" instead of "Ford A"?
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In Reno's retrograde he moves toward the ammunition and the additional men with the pack train.
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And which direction was that? The location you need it to be is the same one that Benteen and Reno wanted you to believe it was. And no, he didn't he moved as Custer had ordered him to, directly back across the river, to the bluffs and thence onward to a junction with Custer.
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I believe individual troopers may have run out or at least did not have time to reload or retrieve ammunition. That is what happens when there is to many Indians willing to fight. Running off the horses with the ammunition is not the same as firing all the ammunition. The pack animals could also be run off and captured.
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And could this, did this also happen on Custer's battlefield? And if, just if it did, would not it have been the commanding officers duty to have made the attempt to have acquired more? And was that attempt, either through Tom or through the Gen.l himself, just such an attempt under those same cicumstances AFTER Martin had long departed?
AZ Ranger
So are you posting as AZ Ranger or is it an error in appearance.
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2009 : 08:26:55 AM
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| I was referring to your statement that Indians don't matter. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2009 : 4:51:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
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Now your insulting Joe when you state that " the Indians don't matter".
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AZ, Benteen has never been insulting to anyone, let alone me. Allow me to be the judge of whether I've been insulted or not. Benteen, myself, and you are passionate about how we feel. This is a good thing because passion is what binds our interest in this subject. Benteen is one of the more knowledgeable, informative, and diplomatic posters I have encountered on this forum in the last 6 years. I only wish there more posters like him on board.
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 10 2009 : 07:35:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
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Originally posted by AZ Ranger
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Now your insulting Joe when you state that " the Indians don't matter".
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AZ, Benteen has never been insulting to anyone, let alone me. Allow me to be the judge of whether I've been insulted or not. Benteen, myself, and you are passionate about how we feel. This is a good thing because passion is what binds our interest in this subject. Benteen is one of the more knowledgeable, informative, and diplomatic posters I have encountered on this forum in the last 6 years. I only wish there more posters like him on board.
So you agree that "the Indians don't matter"? Who would know better on whether ammunition was left by the Custer battalion?
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Benteen
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - November 10 2009 : 08:11:44 AM
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Who would know, who did know? The troopers who right after that battle counted the spent shells, and several did it.
If your relying upon Indian statements, they vary from little to no ammo in the belts to full belts, or nearly full belts. Perhaps Benteen's "scattered corn" statement best fits what happened. Several positions were overran, one by one, and that kept up until they were finished. And it didn't take any longer than Benteen said it did. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 10 2009 : 08:32:52 AM
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I agree that all human beings "matter." What the Indians reported may not matter in arriving at a reasonable conclusion as to what happened as their statements ran the entire gambit.
I believe that Benteen's position was best; "scattered corn." When you exclude the maneuvering tactics of the soldiers and Indians which was time consuming, the end was quick! |
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Responsibility At Little Bighorn
