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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - August 25 2004 : 1:46:04 PM
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They have a stamp for Red Cloud, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and I believe, Chief Joseph. Along with a stamps showing a whole lot of --shall we say--"lesser known" folks in US History.
BuT not Custer.
No matter what you think of him personally, he IS an American figure and certainly quite "famous".
So why not?? Does he deserve a stamp??
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 4:58:55 PM
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| I believe he should. However, he is "infamous" due to the annihilation of his immediate command rather than "famous" for the other accomplishments he achieved for his Country. That's to bad, he deserves better. |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 6:18:28 PM
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| There's been a movement afoot for a Custer stamp in time for the 150th anniversary of the ACW or Gettysburg or something like that ... Custer could be included as one of a series of American generals who contributed to their side's effort. But I am afraid that GAC's part in the Plains' Indian Wars will keep him off US Mail anytime soon--too controversial a figure, I'm afraid. Perhaps the Grenadines can become interested? |
movingrobe |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 1:10:25 PM
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| There must have been hundreds of brigadier/major generals in the union army.Cavalry were very much a supporting arm and Custer just another flash Harry.Add to that the appalling threatment of the native Americans by Uncle Sam.Having a stamp would just add insult to injury. |
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 3:42:18 PM
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Well--the true answer is that the US Postal service is much too "politically correct" to honor Custer with a stamp.
But they had no trouble with Stand Watie. One of his Civil War "accomplishments" was the capture of a Steamboat!!! WOW!! Must have been a pretty big one!!
That isn't even "Flash Harry" stuff.
But there he is amongst Grant, Lee, Jackson, Hancock,etc. in that 20 stamp set.
Now I wonder why---
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 4:49:20 PM
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| I've personally always wanted a Patrick Cleburne (CSA) stamp ... |
movingrobe |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 7:09:05 PM
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My preference has always been George Crooke. Despite his lack of enthusiasm for anything but fishing after Rosebud, he was one of the more effective Indian fighters as well as one of the most open-minded in respecting the Indian culture.
JMHO
Best of wishes to all,
Billy |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 7:28:09 PM
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They do these things to make money, rather than just for PC concerns, I think. They'd make money with sets of stamps with all the main participants, Indian and Army, Custer and Sitting Bull, Rain and Tom, Libby and Mrs. Nash. The LBH Collection. PC to the Nth degree. Still, the very fact it's controversial would get the public in on it and avoid taking sides: it is what it is. Or rather, what people think it is.
I mean, really. Just look at the numbers of salivating Custer nuts, Native American Supporters, Western History afficionados. They could do this with other historic battles as well. It's history, the kids might get into it at an early age. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 06:08:45 AM
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Not sure about Mrs. Nash---
But RC makes a good point. These stamps aren't really for mailing anything, and a LBH 20-stamp set would probably be a big seller.
Looking at previous USPS 20 stamp sets (Civil War, Legends of the West), it's hard to imagine who they would include. Assuming they issued such a set, which they won't.
So we'll continue to see Red Cloud and Sequoia, but never Custer.Except maybe from the Maldives, or the Grenadines--
Movingrobewoman-Cleburne would be a fine CSA stamp. NB Forrest too. But could you imagine anything like that???
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 06:11:37 AM
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RC??-still thinking about the Red Cloud stamp.
Make that DC!! |
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Smcf
Captain
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 07:45:12 AM
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Perhaps if someone could argue the case for an Errol Flynn collection, "Custer" might sneak his way in there  |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 11:04:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Smcf
Perhaps if someone could argue the case for an Errol Flynn collection, "Custer" might sneak his way in there
Oh great! GAC with a bad mullet!  |
movingrobe |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 11:19:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brent
Movingrobewoman-Cleburne would be a fine CSA stamp. NB Forrest too. But could you imagine anything like that???
I do think a set of Civil War generals might do well especially if released in time for the 150th. With all the interest in the subject, the USPS might make some much needed money. Perhaps something more culturally acceptable: Brigade stamps (featuring brigade guidons--that might be some collectors' set)? "Private Soldiers of the US Civil War?"
Yeah, there would have to be some careful choosing of CSA guys, so I guess Quantrill is out, huh?
Billy: I agree. I think Crooke would be a more "correct" choice than the much maligned GAC--at least in this portion of the 21st Century. |
movingrobe |
Edited by - movingrobewoman on August 27 2004 11:20:27 AM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 1:45:12 PM
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I've personally always wanted a Patrick Cleburne (CSA) stamp
Best brigadier general in either army. |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 2:45:36 PM
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Off topic but Wild, I have to dispute the "best brigadier general" statement. In my humble opinion I would have to select Nathan Bedford Forrest who was, without doubt, the best cavalry commander of either army during the late unpleasantness. Strange that Forrest, a civilian, and Buford, the consumate professional cavalryman, both had the same idea for the most efficient use of the cavalry, i.e., using the horse as primarily as a means for speedy transportation of combat troops.
Hey!! I have managed a linkage between Forrest & the LBH!! The Yankeem errr...Union General who Forrest defeated at Brice's Crossroads, with only 3200 cavalry and 8 artillery pieces vs the Union's 8700 cavalry & infantry with 17 artillery pieces, was none other than Samuel Sturgis, later commander of the 7th Cavalry (and father of Lt. James Sturgis who died at LBH).
More information on Forrest may be obtained at this URL:
http://www.civilwarhome.com/forrestcampaigns.htm
Best of wishes,
Billy
P.S. Hmmm, perhaps we can come up with a new game modeled upon the "6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon"? |
Edited by - BJMarkland on August 27 2004 3:12:01 PM |
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 2:47:45 PM
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Wild:
He may very well have been.
Your earlier point about Uncle Sam's treatment of the Indians is a good one.
Yet it didn't stop the USPS from issuing a "Buffalo Soldiers" stamp. And their job was killing Indians for Uncle Sam.
Movingrobewoman:
Crooke would doubtless be more politically correct. But outside of folks like us, who ever heard of him??
But then--they did issue that Stand Watie stamp and in spite of it, the 20 stamp set sold pretty well. I can just see all the "general" stamp collectors scooping up that CIvil War set and then saying to themselves--"Who the hell is Stand Watie?" And then when they found out, saying-- "Why in the hell is he in this set??" |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 4:05:06 PM
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| Forrest was the founder of the Ku Klux Klan. Ft. Pillow. Other issues. He'll get a stamp right after John Wayne Gacey and Osama bin Laden, Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda are asked to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national gathering, Richard Simmons follows Pierce Bronson as James Bond. Just be patient..... |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 4:55:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Forrest was the founder of the Ku Klux Klan. Ft. Pillow. Other issues. He'll get a stamp right after John Wayne Gacey and Osama bin Laden, Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda are asked to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national gathering, Richard Simmons follows Pierce Bronson as James Bond. Just be patient.....
DC,
I think one of the other issues was Brice's Crossroads, where a large number of the Union troops, and dead, were USCI. As far as the KKK, from my reading, it was founded originally to combat the Carpetbaggers, Scalawags and Reconstruction policies being stuffed down the collective Southern throat. As with all political organizations, the good soon turned to bad...for other examples, just look at today's Republican & Democratic parties! 
Be good, I am off to Borders, with a 20% off coupon, where I spotted a book about the 4 regular US Infantry regiments in the Western Theater, of which one was the 18th US Infantry of Ft. Phil Kearny/Fetterman Massacre renown.
Patiently yours,
Billy
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Edited by - BJMarkland on August 27 2004 4:59:47 PM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - August 28 2004 : 10:57:29 AM
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I have to dispute the "best brigadier general" statement. In my humble opinion I would have to select Nathan Bedford
Yeh JB,the man was good at his job.But he was a major general and I was refering to Brigadiers.
Pierce Brosnahan is the man you mentioned DC
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 28 2004 : 11:17:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
[i][b]Yeh JB,the man was good at his job.But he was a major general and I was refering to Brigadiers.
Actually, from what I read he started as a volunteer private. He was placed in command of a brigade while still a Lt. Col. and formally promoted to Brigadier General on July 21, 1862. He retained that rank up until October, 1863 when he resigned upon the appointment of Wheeler as Commander of Calvary for the Army of the Tennessee. Jefferson Davis refused to accept his resignation and promoted him to Major General approximately the end of October, 1863.
Many of Forrest's exploits were thus performed while a Brigadier. Fort Pillow occurred when he was a Maj. General. Speaking of which, these interesting statements were in the paper of Forrest's career:
"This last fight, for political purposes, has been, by false testimony, and I believe willful perjury, represented as a bloody massacre. The willful and malicious assaults of a partisan press, who have recently revived these slanders for partisan ends, has called forth from Dr. Fitch, of Iowa, who was the Union surgeon at Fort Pillow, a complete vindication of the Confederates, which has been published in your Monthly Papers, and as I have recently published a statement on this subject, I will not detain you now with its repetition. You will pardon me, however, for saying that I regarded one of my highest duties in life well performed when, as a representative in Congress, I placed on the records of the country a refutation of this infamous slander on Forrest and his cavalry."
--Gen. J.R. Chambers, Southern Historical Papers, Vol. VII, 1879, no. 10.
I will look up the testimony mentioned above in the U.S. Serial Set the next time I go to the library.
Best of wishes,
Billy |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 29 2004 : 09:52:07 AM
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Best Brigadier General? Staying strictly Infantry, from the Confederate site, I am perhaps a bit biased considering he is a "home boy", Dorsey Pender should be one of the Brigadier Generals in contention for that honor.
D.H. Hill would have been one of the best if given the opportunity (and if he could have resisted rubbing every superior officer the wrong way). We also have to throw into the mix Micah Jenkins & E.M. Law, both strong brigade commanders.
From the Union side, we have Emory Upton as a candidate as well as George Thomas, as two of the leading candidates.
Info about all can be found at this link:
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/generals.html
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Best of wishes,
Billy |
Edited by - BJMarkland on August 29 2004 10:23:22 AM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - August 29 2004 : 10:17:07 AM
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Perhaps Comanche would be a good subject for a stamp.Nothing political about a horse.
BJ have you read the civil war by Shelby Foote?
Am I wrong but Union B.G.s just don't attract the same attention? |
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frankboddn
Major
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 29 2004 : 3:51:23 PM
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 Sorry to disagree with you on Forrest, but isn't he credited with being a founder of the KKK? Political correctness or not, I can't see anyone giving him or wanting to give him a stamp. Another link with Custer, wasn't one of Custer's duties down south to put down the KKK? More links. |
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 30 2004 : 06:41:15 AM
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The USPS has it's own "agenda" (and I'll say no more about that) for stamps, and we'll certainly never see Forrest on a US stamp.
Off topic, but I wrote to them once asking about getting Kate Smith on a stamp (you know--"god bless America" and all that). They never issued one for that great lady and probably never will. But we do find American "legends" of music such as as Sister Rosetta, Sonny Terry and James P. Johnson with their own stamps.
Probably won't see Commanche either--but if Red Cloud had a horse, we'll probably see him--.
Getting agitated now--have to stop before I really get going---. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 30 2004 : 09:02:03 AM
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Oh, come, Brent, a conspiracy to keep unimportant white people off of stamps?
I used to watch Kate "When the Moon Comes Over The Mountain" Smith when she had her own 15 minute and then half hour show on weekday afternoons in the mid-fifties, and have good memories of her. But if she had never existed, nothing much would have changed in music, culture, or history. I fail to see in what way she was 'great.'
Further, she has been greatly honored above the norm and certainly above accomplishment because of her association with a patriotic song she didn't write during a war. It's not like in a heirarchy of status a stamp is the ultimate form of recognition, and that if every single form of posthumous flattery isn't given someone they've been slighted, for goodness sake. FDR told Churchill (supposedly) she 'was' America. She was in a number of (bad) Hollywood movies. When you perform before such audiences, and receive such introductions, many people might conclude you were not being ignored, shunted aside, deprived of recognition in your day.
When the WWII and my generation are gone, nobody will remember Kate Smith and there would be no cultural reason to. That's not a slam; she worked her booty off in USO and other things and generated and received a LOT of recognition at the time and after. But she was unimportant in the cold hard light of history.
Dedicating a stamp is an easy way for the country to make amends in a superficial way, and honoring gospel and blues musicians (who were routinely ripped off and stolen from and ignored for any recognition for years) on a stamp is hardly sign of a sick bureaucratic mindset. And if they mean nothing to you, they meant a lot to the communities in which they performed and to the white folk musicians (me, for example) who learned from and liked them and actually, in the case of Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee (who were supposedly always angry with each other and didn't speak)heard play live. And they were excellent, and at this moment in time there are probably more people who know who Terry and McGhee are then Smith, because their music is still played and sung (they wrote songs), and hers, by and large, is not.
She didn't write "God Bless America", after all. Which is why Irving Berlin is on a stamp and not her. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 30 2004 : 4:34:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
I've personally always wanted a Patrick Cleburne (CSA) stamp
Best brigadier general in either army.
Cleburne is buried here in Arkansas, in Helena (on the mighty Mississippi)--the home of the King Biscuit Blues' Festival. Also, the "newest" county in the state is named Cleburne--with its county seat of Heber Springs, on beautiful Greers' Ferry Lake (its ACE dam dedication was one of JFK's final destinations in 1963).
Wild, I'm not surprised you'd go for the Irish gen'ril!
Regards ... |
movingrobe |
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Shouldn't Custer be on a US Stamp??
