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Flammable
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October 18 2009
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 Posted - February 26 2012 : 3:53:25 PM
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I recently stumbled upon a discussion about the final scene of the movie and red this link to the script: http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo07026.html I also once again watched the movie from end to finish (the director's cut) and when you look at the final scene it really does seem Hawkeye and Cora ARE talking and you can even see Cora nodding her head in conversational manner.
This is yet again proof there is more to add to the film if there was interest to make a new cut. We already have three versions of the theatrical cut. I am hoping Mann would surprise us fans and make a new cut of the film this year as it the anniversery.
I don't even care if it would make a good movie with everything added back in that was cut in different stages of the production. I just wanna see it as complete as possible.
Or atleast they should add alternate scenes and deleted scenes as extra so we can edit our own versions of the film if they don't have interest or are too lazy to do it.
Ps. Also, who wrote that 'note' thingie in the link page? Obviously someone who has paid attention..
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - February 27 2012 : 09:42:10 AM
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| "Note thingie in the link page" ... ? Do mean this? Note: We suspect this scene was shot pretty much as described here, though it greatly differs from the final result. If you watch closely, it appears the characters are speaking to one another. Good use of rear shots & film cuts makes it difficult to discern. What do you think? That was yours truly. Madeleine Stowe confirmed it in the interview we did with her several years ago. |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
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Posted - February 28 2012 : 7:28:30 PM
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| Sara Donati continued the love story of Hawkeye and Cora, well sorta, in her novel Into the Wilderness. It takes place well after the ending of the movie, which leaves enough room for a prequel to the book but I don't think that will happen. |
Theresa |
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Flammable
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Posted - March 02 2012 : 11:47:48 AM
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| Richfed: Yes, I meant I had watched the movie so many times without really noticing the scene is edited so that the dialogue between Hawkeye and Cora is cut. Is there any other definite reason to believe the scene was shot as a whole like in the script besides M. Stowe's confirmation? I am just wondering if anyone's ever seen these alternate takes etc. and talked about them somewhere. |
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Flammable
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Posted - March 10 2012 : 3:55:28 PM
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| Also, I believe there is cut dialogue in the scene when they arrive at the fort and general Munro says "Cora! Alice! Why are you here?!" and then he says: "And where the bloody hell are my reinforcements!?" and here the dialogue cuts really badly(you can clearly notice an abrupt cut) and you can see general Munro's body language suggesting he says something else too. I checked the version of the script that is available here on this site but it does not reveal much about this bit of possible dialogue. Any suggestions? http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo07012.html |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - March 11 2012 : 1:53:01 PM
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Flammable,
This particular scene has been discussed here before, both in my account, that of ( I believe ) Soldier 2 ( Eric Hurley ), and Maurice Roeves ( Col. Munro ) somewhat indignant denial and response in his interview. It boils down to this: What you see is ALL there was to the dialogue, BUT...for some reason he was experiencing then what Dale Dye routinely referred to as a "brain fart". This was his very first night filming, and simple as the dialog was, and much as he knew perfectly well what it was, it simply wouldn't come out right! This entailed take after take, and many of us were getting VERY tired of doing the same thing over and over. This was especially hard on the men pushing the heavy ammunition cart up the ramp to the gun positions atop the walls.
No matter how many times we did this, his line inevetably came out "Cora! - Alice! ( loooong pause as though he'd forgotten the line ) Why're ye here? - And where the Bludy Hell're my reenforcements!?" It was the "Why're ye here?" part that was the problem - despite his later denial in the interview, there was some sort of block that prevented him from delivering it smoothly. What you're noticing may be editing to somewhat close that gap created by the too-long pause. In all fairness to Maurice Roeves this was the ONLY time we noticed any sort of problem, and I think it may be chalked up to his "newness" at that particular time in the filming. At all other times he was the consummate professional.
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Flammable
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Posted - March 12 2012 : 3:34:17 PM
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Hey, thanks for shedding light on this scene. It does sound reasonable as an editing problem with the audio/dialogue track. Nevertheless, it jumps clearly out of the dialogue to my ears everytime I watch that scene. "REINFORCMENTS"/abrupt cut
Also, as I side note on dialogue in a different scene I am quite sure why Mann removed the 'Clear it up any?' line from Hawkeye is because it clearly sounds like a later overdub and at least to my ears does not sound natural with the lines spoken seconds before; the tone of voice and the sound quality on that particular line sounds very different.
I have been watching the original theatrical version a lot lately and although I cannot get over the fact it misses scenes and clips from the director's cut I would like to see in the theatrical cut it does float better. |
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James N.
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - March 14 2012 : 10:55:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Flammable
Also, as I side note on dialogue in a different scene I am quite sure why Mann removed the 'Clear it up any?' line from Hawkeye is because it clearly sounds like a later overdub and at least to my ears does not sound natural with the lines spoken seconds before; the tone of voice and the sound quality on that particular line sounds very different.
To my mind, Mohicans suffered at least a bit from a tendency rampant in today's "blockbusters": inappropriate dialog inserted just to be "hip" to a juvenile audience brought up on the puerile innuendoes of television, especially where authority MUST be challenged to pander to adolescents. That's especially evident in Hawkeye's ridiculous answer to Heyward about facing north and turning left to go west. Interpreting the script there's always a struggle between what we believe to be "correct" 1700's period dialog; Cooper's often idiotic ideas from a century later; and our own twentieth ( and now twenty-first! ) century "slanguage".
Thinking about film problems reminds me of a situation in Glory that annoyed me at the time. In the final weeks of filming outside Atlanta, Ga., we filmed the Battle of Antietam sequence that began the movie. Among the battle scenes was a long shot showing the Union troops advancing against Confederates at the edge of a tree line, who fire a volley. When the "dailies" came back, this scene was ruined ( at considerable cost, because each "take" can easily cost thousands of dollars! ) because the camera plainly showed the Confederates casually standing in line until they got their cue to fire, instead of showing movement and anxiety like they should had it been "for real". The problem was the Panavision wide-angle camera which magnifies the perspective, bringing the background forward.
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The worst thing about this is that it was entirely unnecessary and another example of failure to communicate, SO common on movie sets. If we reenactors in the "Military Core" had been warned about the vagarities of filming like this, we could've watched out for it and prevented this waste of time and money. Since it was the very last day of filming, I undiplomatically told the director, Ed Zwick, what was wrong: we'd done it the way HE told us!
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In another example of movie waste, the beautiful full-scale replica of Antietam's landmark Dunker Church seen here in the background totally failed to "make the cut", and is seen ONLY from the inside as the setting for a field hospital! |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - March 14 2012 : 11:19:55 AM
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| Some excellent points James, ... |
you can keep "The Change" |
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![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
About the final scene of the movie (cut dialogue)
