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 Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
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Posted - December 16 2002 :  8:33:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mel Gibson is currently directing a film in Italy about the last 12 hours of Christ. James Caviezel (Thin Red Line, Count of Monte Cristo) is playing Christ. The film will be entirely in Latin and Aramaic, and Gibson doesn't want any subtitles. I'm not sure why only Latin and Aramaic are mentioned, as Greek would have been more commomly spoken than Latin. Perhaps this is part of Gibson's Latin Catholic bias. Gibson is rumored to have Latin Mass everyday in his private chapel at his home in CA, and his daughter has decided to be a Nun. This film is supposed to follow the gospels and be historically accurate. Looking at Gibson's past historical endeavors I'm not keeping my hopes up. But I admit the concept is interesting, and I like the idea of using the original languages without subtitles. Below is a website with pics of the production in Italy. The images of the bloody Christ struggling to carry the cross are extremely powerful, but he does look too European, and the image of Christ on the cross has the nails through the hands which is physically and archaeologically inaccurate.

http://www.seattlecatholic.com/misc_20021121.html


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Posted - December 16 2002 :  10:21:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I thought Mel lived in Greenwich.

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Posted - December 16 2002 :  11:15:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I read that he lived in malibu. I assumed it was malibu, CA as that's were all the hollywood types like to build their multi-million dollar mansions, even though the area is extremely prone to wildfires and mudslides.

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Posted - December 17 2002 :  6:50:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit richfed's Homepage  Click to see richfed's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Don't know all that much about the proper language [though I would think Latin appropriate for the time & place] nor the physical possibilities of a crucifixion via the hands & feet [though I thought I remembered the shroud of Turin bore that out] ... but, no matter.

This figures to be an outstanding work of art, as most labors of love are ... Mel must have a most special affinity for this subject to approach it in such a manner. Judging by those photos, it figures to have overwhelming impact. I greatly look forward to this!

Thanks for the heads up, CT!
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Posted - December 17 2002 :  10:11:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by richfed

Don't know all that much about the proper language [though I would think Latin appropriate for the time & place] nor the physical possibilities of a crucifixion via the hands & feet [though I thought I remembered the shroud of Turin bore that out] ... but, no matter.

This figures to be an outstanding work of art, as most labors of love are ... Mel must have a most special affinity for this subject to approach it in such a manner. Judging by those photos, it figures to have overwhelming impact. I greatly look forward to this!

Thanks for the heads up, CT!



You're welcome. I agree Rich, this looks like a real labor of love for Gibson. Some say he's really going out on a limb here. It's rumored American producers won't touch this, probably becaue it's in two "dead" languages with no subtitles. I'm looking forward to see how the film turns out, and how the public accepts it.

Aramaic is closely related to Hebrew and was commonly spoken in the area at this time. This is thought to be the language Jesus (Y'shua) would have commonly spoken to his desciples, followers etc. He would have read the Law and scriptures in Hebrew. And it is thought by some scholars that Jesus would have also had a knowledge of Greek. Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the day. For example, the New Testament was written in koine Greek, not Latin, even though it was circulated throughout the Roman Empire. As a carpenter it is thought Jesus might have used koine Greek to conduct business in a Hellenized world before His ministry. Latin would probably not have been so common, perhaps used by Pontius Pilate and some of the Roman soldiers.

It is thought that had spikes been driven through the hand, those hand bones would not be strong enough to support a man's weight, and the spikes would rip through the flesh. Archaeological evidence suggests that the spikes were not driven through the hand. In 1968 the remains of a crucified man from the 1st century A.D. named Yehohanan Ben-Hagakol were found by archaeologists in Jerusalem. There was a deep scratch on the right radius bone, showing that a nail had penetrated between the two bones of his lower forearm just above the wrist, not through the hand. Interestingly, this man also did not have spikes driven through his feet, but one through each heel. As for the shroud of Turin, that is highly suspect and very controversial. There is a wide range of opinion as to it's authenticity. I personally don't believe it is a real burial shroud, but many people do. I don't think it's really all that important wether it's real or not.


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Posted - December 20 2002 :  02:32:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
What an interesting endeavour~
I'm anxious to see this one's completion.

Regarding language & accuracy; the use of Latin, incredibly highlighted by the use of Aramaic as well, speaks volumes about the integrity & desire for authenticity of this production. Aramaic, one of humanity's oldest languages, was the language spoken by the Hebrews of that time & place while Hebrew was used for the written word. Christ spoke in Aramaic. Scripture was written & read in Hebrew. No small detail - no small task to bring Aramaic to life here.
While Greek was previously a widely spoken tongue, an intended consequence of Hellinistic rule of Palestine, the subsequent rise of Rome brought Pax Romana and the language of Latin. Greek remained the standard form for written words for a long time. (The Chi Ro, for instance, is still used.)
As you said, CT, the original texts of the New Testament were primarily written in Greek, including the Epistles, Acts, & Apocrypha, though written over a span of time & not compiled into byblos, or the Bible, for generations afterward. It was the fourth century monk, St. Jerome, fluent in several languages including Latin, Greek, & Hebrew, who first compiled the ancient Hebrew texts of the Septuagint (Old Testament) & the Greek texts of the Gospels et al (New Testament) into one universal Latin version. (Ancient even in St. Jerome's day, these original manuscripts were lost to history.) A faithful, word-for-word translation, the work of St. Jerome brought together the various books into what amounts to a library of Sacred Scripture (Byblos), the Latin Vulgate of the Catholic Church (sole version of Christendom from 415-1444 & the first book off Gutenberg's printing press) - from which all later editions & renditions of Scripture stemmed, including the first English translation, the Douay-Rheims.
The usage of spoken Latin & spoken Aramaic in this depiction of Christ's Passion sans subtitles is both correct & wise.
(Latin & Greek are, to this day, reflected in Mass - its form & parts still known by their Latin/Greek names; Kyrie, Agnus Dei, etc.)

Regarding the crucifixion; the subject of much discussion & debate, the probable anatomical site for nails remains the palms. Despite the assumption that a nail through the palm would not hold the weight of a man on the cross, medical researchers now say the tendon that runs just along the thumb is far stronger than presumed & may be strong enough to support the weight of the hanging body. Also, though not mentioned often, crucifixions had variance depending on where they were done, and by whom. St. Peter was crucified in Rome - upside down. St. John was crucified & repeatedly dunked into hot oil. (He miraculously survived, recording the Gospel account after his ordeal.)There were small differences between the manner of crucifixions done in Judea & in far off Rome. Typically, the wrists of the condemned were first bound to the horizontal wood of the cross before nails were pounded into the flesh, making the issue of palm/wrist capability nearly irrelevant. The 1st century victim was not crucified in the same manner as Christ. He was impaled with one nail through his fleshy heels with legs faced sideways, one over the other. It is a reasonable assumption to say that 1)when the wrists were not bound they may have been the nail site, or 2)when bound, the palm was the nail site, or 3)at times, binding may have been the only manner of securing the condemned to the cross & no nails were present.
Roman historians, such as Josephus, don't definitely record this detail as the Latin word mano makes no distinction between palm & wrist. There is really no reason to presume there was a unified, standard protocol for nails/spikes during crucifixion.

On the other hand, the manifestation of Christ's wounds on different people, including St. Francis of Asissi & Padre Pio, do reveal wound sites; as does the Shroud of Turin - which i

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Posted - December 31 2002 :  2:23:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Here are some more pics of the filming in Italy:

http://www.sassiweb.it/thepassion/

http://www.sassiweb.it/thepassionpics/

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Posted - December 31 2002 :  3:44:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Lainey

What an interesting endeavour~
I'm anxious to see this one's completion.

Regarding language & accuracy; the use of Latin, incredibly highlighted by the use of Aramaic as well, speaks volumes about the integrity & desire for authenticity of this production. Aramaic, one of humanity's oldest languages, was the language spoken by the Hebrews of that time & place while Hebrew was used for the written word. Christ spoke in Aramaic. Scripture was written & read in Hebrew. No small detail - no small task to bring Aramaic to life here.
While Greek was previously a widely spoken tongue, an intended consequence of Hellinistic rule of Palestine, the subsequent rise of Rome brought Pax Romana and the language of Latin. Greek remained the standard form for written words for a long time. (The Chi Ro, for instance, is still used.)
As you said, CT, the original texts of the New Testament were primarily written in Greek, including the Epistles, Acts, & Apocrypha, though written over a span of time & not compiled into byblos, or the Bible, for generations afterward. It was the fourth century monk, St. Jerome, fluent in several languages including Latin, Greek, & Hebrew, who first compiled the ancient Hebrew texts of the Septuagint (Old Testament) & the Greek texts of the Gospels et al (New Testament) into one universal Latin version. (Ancient even in St. Jerome's day, these original manuscripts were lost to history.) A faithful, word-for-word translation, the work of St. Jerome brought together the various books into what amounts to a library of Sacred Scripture (Byblos), the Latin Vulgate of the Catholic Church (sole version of Christendom from 415-1444 & the first book off Gutenberg's printing press) - from which all later editions & renditions of Scripture stemmed, including the first English translation, the Douay-Rheims.
The usage of spoken Latin & spoken Aramaic in this depiction of Christ's Passion sans subtitles is both correct & wise.
(Latin & Greek are, to this day, reflected in Mass - its form & parts still known by their Latin/Greek names; Kyrie, Agnus Dei, etc.)

Regarding the crucifixion; the subject of much discussion & debate, the probable anatomical site for nails remains the palms. Despite the assumption that a nail through the palm would not hold the weight of a man on the cross, medical researchers now say the tendon that runs just along the thumb is far stronger than presumed & may be strong enough to support the weight of the hanging body. Also, though not mentioned often, crucifixions had variance depending on where they were done, and by whom. St. Peter was crucified in Rome - upside down. St. John was crucified & repeatedly dunked into hot oil. (He miraculously survived, recording the Gospel account after his ordeal.)There were small differences between the manner of crucifixions done in Judea & in far off Rome. Typically, the wrists of the condemned were first bound to the horizontal wood of the cross before nails were pounded into the flesh, making the issue of palm/wrist capability nearly irrelevant. The 1st century victim was not crucified in the same manner as Christ. He was impaled with one nail through his fleshy heels with legs faced sideways, one over the other. It is a reasonable assumption to say that 1)when the wrists were not bound they may have been the nail site, or 2)when bound, the palm was the nail site, or 3)at times, binding may have been the only manner of securing the condemned to the cross & no nails were present.
Roman historians, such as Josephus, don't definitely record this detail as the Latin word mano makes no distinction between palm & wrist. There is really no reason to presume there was a unified, standard protocol for nails/spikes during crucifixion.

On the other hand,

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Posted - January 06 2003 :  10:40:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
No subtitles? Sounds like a movie I won't be watching if I can't understand it despite the fact it's not a movie I would be interested in anyway, Mel Gibson and Caviezel or not.

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Posted - January 08 2003 :  04:34:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Lainey, thanks for your post. Once again, very well written. Although I have some minor friendly disagreements with some of what you wrote.


Hey, CT ~ If we had no disagreements we'd have no good discussions.
Thanks for critiquing the film from an historical/archaeological perspective (very interesting!). Do you have a specific interest in Palestine, Biblical history, or general antiquity?

quote:
I pretty much agree with your statement that
"It is a reasonable assumption to say that 1)when the wrists were not bound they may have been the nail site, or 2)when bound, the palm was the nail site, or 3)at times, binding may have been the only manner of securing the condemned to the cross & no nails were present. Roman historians, such as Josephus, don't definitely record this detail as the Latin word mano makes no distinction between palm & wrist."

On this subject the only factual evidence is provided by archaeology. Anything else is speculation and assumption.


First, a correction on my part. Roman or Jewish historians, such as Josephus ... etc.
While there is no clear, specific distinction made regarding palm or wrist, enough was written to conclude there was quite a bit of variance in how the arms/hands were bound & secured to the wood. (Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, etc.) There is history, prophecy, tradition, archaeology, and an impressive body of unexplained phenomena (the Turin Shroud, bearers of the Stigmata, the Edessa Cloth}, all of which weigh in well beyond speculation.



quote:
Many scholars believe the reamins of Yehohanan point to a nail through the wrist, although some even disagree with this. In the end what it boils down to, is that we simply can't be exactly sure how the Christ was crucified, and since the gospels aren't clear on the subject, it's probably not at all important.


I (very respectfully) disagree with its unimportance. Whether or not one accepts Christianity, it has profoundly impacted and continues to impact greatly upon the course of human history. Central to the Christian faith is the God-Man as redeemer; central to the Redemption is the Christ crucified; central to the Crucifixion is the complete Passion - worthy of meditation & contemplative atonement, in every detail of suffering, to millions and millions of Christians. More important then, as far as historical accuracy in film, than the color of a soldier's coat or length of a musket.

quote:
In fact there is absolutely no reason to believe only 3 nails were used, for the gospels don't record this detail. Early church iconography depicting 3 crossed nails is most likely symbolic for the trinity. For my part it is a subject of interest, not importance. I lean toward the archaeological evidence.


The Gospels don't record the number of nails, or spikes, but archaeology does. The Roman spikes were 7 or 8 inches long, quite capable of ripping through flesh while securely pinning the victim's hand/wrist/foot to the cross. There'd be no need to use more than one at each site so three is the maximum required.

quote:
As a f

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Posted - January 08 2003 :  1:25:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"Hey, CT ~ If we had no disagreements we'd have no good discussions. Thanks for critiquing the film from an historical/archaeological perspective (very interesting!). Do you have a specific interest in Palestine, Biblical history, or general antiquity?"


Sure, I enjoy this discussion. As a university student I've studied history and archaeology. My interests cover a wide range of history from 20th century to antiquity. More specifically one of my main areas of interest (beside colonial America) is Near Eastern Archaeology and Biblical studies of the Old Testament period, but that interest also extends somewhat into the first few centuries A.D./C.E.

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Posted - January 18 2003 :  10:34:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Did anyone happen to see the Mel Gibson interview with Bill O'Reilly last week?

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Posted - January 18 2003 :  2:40:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Here's the link if you're interested.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,75617,00.html

Mel doesn't flinch!

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Posted - January 18 2003 :  3:04:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit richfed's Homepage  Click to see richfed's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
We saw that, Theresa. Mel doesn't flinch, does he? And why should he? He's got a very valid point. I admire the guy ... I can now say I have a "favorite" actor ... Hey, Braveheart was already on my list of favorite movies!!! [No, he's no match for DDL in the acting talent category, I admit! But, he's a director, etc., etc.]
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Posted - March 06 2003 :  9:31:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Mel Gibson's Great Passion

Christ's Agony as You've Never Seen It

ROME, MARCH 6, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Oscar winning actor-director Mel Gibson is in Rome these days, working on a film on the passion of Christ at the Cinecittà studios.

The movie focuses on the last hours of Christ's life and stars Jim Caviezel ("The Thin Red Line," "Angel Eyes," "The Count of Monte Cristo") as Jesus. Gibson granted the following exclusive interview to ZENIT.

Q: What made you decide to do this project?

Gibson: It's been slowly coming on for about 10 or 12 years now. I'm a pretty old guy, but if you go back 12 years I was 35. That's when I started to investigate the roots of my faith. I had always believed in God, that he existed, and I was brought up to believe in a certain way.

But in my middle years, I kind of drifted, and other things took center stage. At that point, I realized I needed something more if I was going to survive. A closer investigation of the Gospels, of the story, of the whole piece, was demanded of me.

That's when the idea started to percolate inside my head. I began to see it realistically, re-creating it in my own mind so that it would make sense for me, so I could relate to it. That's what I want to put on the screen.

Q: So many movies about the life of Christ have already been made. Why make another one?

Gibson: I don't think other films have tapped into the real force of this story. I mean, have you seen any of the others? They are either inaccurate in their history, or they suffer from bad music or bad hair. This film will show the passion of Jesus Christ just the way it happened. It's like traveling back in time and watching the events unfold exactly as they occurred.

Q: How can you be sure that your version is so accurate?

Gibson: We've done the research. I'm telling the story as the Bible tells it. I think the story, as it really happened, speaks for itself. The Gospel is a complete script, and that's what we're filming.

Q: This seems like a switch from the usual Mel Gibson productions. Your specialty is action, adventure and romance. What made you decide to do a religious film?

Gibson: I'm doing what I've always done: telling stories I think are important in the language I speak best: film. I think most great stories are hero stories. People want to reach out and grab at something higher, and vicariously live through heroism, and lift their spirit that way.

There is no greater hero story than this one -- about the greatest love one can have, which is to lay down one's life for someone. The Passion is the biggest adventure story of all time. I think it's the biggest love-story of all time; God becoming man and men killing God -- if that's not action, nothing is.

Q: Who will want to see a film like this?

Gibson: I think everyone will. The story has inspired art, culture, behavior, governments, kingdoms, countries -- it has influenced the world in more ways than you can imagine. It's a pivotal event in history that has made us what we are today. Believers and nonbelievers alike, we have all been affected by it.

So many people are searching for meaning in life, asking themselves a lot of questions. They'll come looking for answers. Some will find them, some won't.

Q: So this film isn't only for Christians?

Gibson: "Gandhi" was a blockbuster hit, but it wasn't just for Hindus. This film is for everyone. For believers and nonbelievers, Jesus Christ is undoubtedly one of the most important historical figures of all time. Name one person who has had a greater impact on the course of history.

Q: But if this film is focused on bringing the Gospels to life, won't it be offensive to non-Christians? For example, the role of the Jewish leaders in Jesus' death. If you depict that, won't it be offensive?

Gibson: This isn't a story about Jews vs. Christians. Jesus himself was a Jew, his mother was a Jew, and so were his Twelve Apostles. It's true that, as the Bible says, "

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Posted - May 21 2003 :  11:24:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Mel Gibson's 'Passion' is already stirring controversy

Bettijane Levine, Los Angeles Times

Published May 11, 2003

HOLLYWOOD

Mel Gibson's 2004 film "The Passion" is being questioned by scholars who worry that the film --which they have not yet seen -- might fan religious animosity and misunderstanding. The movie, which depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus, features actors speaking only in Latin and Aramaic.

The controversy swirling around Gibson, his film and even his religious beliefs is built largely on conjecture. It is based on the few comments Gibson has made about the movie, which he claims will be historically accurate. It is also based on a magazine article about a church the actor is building in Agoura Hills, Calif. The article quotes his father, who claims that the Holocaust never happened and that the World Trade Center was destroyed by remote control.

The actor's father, Hutton Gibson, is a member of the traditionalist Catholic movement, which operates outside the Roman Catholic Church and embraces a 16th-century form of the religion that celebrates Tridentine (Latin) mass and denies the legitimacy of all popes and church reforms since the start of the Second Vatican Council, 1962-65. (That council, among other things, eliminated the belief that Jews, collectively, were responsible for the death of Jesus and directed the church to seek reconciliation.)

The younger Gibson's church, which will not be open to the public, is reportedly also a traditionalist Catholic house of worship. (It is not affiliated with the archdiocese of Los Angeles.) According to tax and other public documents, Mel Gibson is president and CEO of the nonprofit foundation that funds the church, and he is the foundation's sole contributor.

Is the younger Gibson a chip off the old block? And should anyone care?

No one did seem to care until scholars connected the dots between his new church, his new film and his father's unorthodox beliefs.

Roman Catholic and Jewish scholars have expressed concern, even alarm. Catholics fear Gibson might use his star power and clout to promote traditionalist views in his new movie. Jews worry that it may promote anti-Semitic feelings.

"What we have here is a rich filmmaker whose beliefs may counter what the teaching of the church has been for the last 50 years," says Sister Mary Boys, professor of practical theology at Union Theological Seminary in New York. "He can get his views into the media and has far more power in that sense than what the church has."

Boys says Jews and Catholics are concerned, for example, that Gibson's film might "blame the Jews for the death of Jesus," something the Second Vatican Council expressly forbids.

Rabbi Eugene Korn, director of Interfaith Affairs at the Anti-Defamation League in New York, says, "Historically, Passion plays have been very dangerous productions in terms of Christian attitudes toward Jews. Many dramatic presentations of the Passion contained anti-Semitic elements . . . that led to the charge of deicide and responsibility of Jews for the crucifixion. Not only Jews who lived then, but Jews for all time."

When an article in the March 9 New York Times magazine described the theology of Gibson's father and linked it to the actor and his new movie, "it caused great alarm," Korn says. Eugene Fisher, of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, sent a letter to Gibson's Icon production company requesting that a panel of Christian and Jewish scholars be given the opportunity to review the script before the film is released. He has not received a response.

Gibson returned to the United States from Italy recently after wrapping "The Passion," which he directed and co-wrote but does not appear in. He was "surprised and upset" to learn that his film and his theology are under such scrutiny, says Alan Nie

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Posted - May 22 2003 :  06:08:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit richfed's Homepage  Click to see richfed's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I say go for it, Mel! [Whatever your beliefs may be ...]
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Posted - June 01 2003 :  12:04:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Controversy Swirls Around Mel Gibson's 'Passion'

Denver Archbishop Weighs In on Film About Christ

DENVER, Colorado, MAY 30, 2003

Though Mel Gibson's latest film "The Passion" isn't scheduled to appear in theaters for another eight months, it is already arousing heated debate.

This week Archbishop Charles Chaput devoted his column in the Denver Catholic Register to defending Gibson's movie from those who charge that a cinematic portrayal of Christ's passion and death could stir up flames of anti-Semitism.

"I find it puzzling and disturbing that anyone would feel licensed to attack a film of sincere faith before it has even been released," Archbishop Chaput writes. "When the overtly provocative 'The Last Temptation of Christ' was released 15 years ago, movie critics piously lectured Catholics to be open-minded and tolerant. Surely that advice should apply equally for everyone."

The column follows on the heels of a string of recent attacks on Gibson's film, culminating in an 18-page report of an ad hoc committee of the U.S. bishops' Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs criticizing the script of the movie.

The ad hoc scholar's group that produced the report was assembled by Eugene Fisher of the bishops' conference and Rabbi Eugene Korn of the Anti-Defamation League, and comprised a mix of nine Jewish and Christian academics. One of the signers, Amy-Jill Levine of Vanderbilt University describes herself as "a Yankee Jewish feminist ... with a commitment to exposing and expunging anti-Jewish, sexist and heterosexist theologies."

The group's report, dated May 2, criticized everything from the size of the cross used for the crucifixion scene, to the languages spoken, to poor character development. The document's central complaint, however, is that "a graphic movie presentation of the crucifixion could reawaken the very anti-Semitic attitudes that we have devoted our careers to combating."

The report takes issue with director Gibson's decision to focus on Christ's passion rather than presenting a broader vision of "the ministry of Jesus, of his preaching and teaching about God's reign, his distinctive table companionship, his mediation of God's gracious mercy."

The report furthermore disapproves of the film's treatment of the Gospel accounts of Jesus' passion as historical facts. According to the signers, Gibson disregards exegetical theories that the Evangelists' accounts represent later efforts of the Christian community to "shift responsibility from Pilate onto Jewish figures," and accuses the script of utilizing the four distinct passion narratives "without regard for their apologetic and polemical features."

Yet Gibson has recently received support from the Jewish sector as well.

Writing in the New York Jewish weekly Forward, Orthodox Jewish author David Klinghoffer defended Gibson's efforts and chided his co-religionists for adhering to the historically dubious account of Jesus' death handed down by Jewish officialdom.

Such an account absolves the Jews from complicity in Jesus' death and places the blame on the shoulders of the Romans. "Our loyalty should be to Judaism and to truth," Klinghoffer writes, "not to an officially sanctioned, sanitized version of Judaism or the truth -- which may be neither Jewish nor true."

The ad hoc group report follows on a series of stories that appeared in different news media across North America, criticizing the movie along similar lines.

Boston Globe columnist James Carroll, for example, denounced Gibson's film for its literal reading of the Biblical accounts of Christ's passion. According to Carroll, "Even a faithful repetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred."

Such opinions are not shared by other scholars in the field. Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, National Endowment for the Humanities professor of ancient Mediterra

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Posted - June 16 2003 :  11:06:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Mel Gibson Says "The Passion" Is Meant to Inspire, Not Offend
Denies That Forthcoming Film on Jesus Is Anti-Semitic


LOS ANGELES, JUNE 15, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Film director and actor Mel Gibson says his movie "The Passion," on the last 12 hours of Jesus' life, is meant to "inspire, not offend."

In a statement released to the trade publication Daily Variety, Gibson said: "To be certain, neither I nor my film is anti-Semitic."

"'The Passion' is a movie meant to inspire not offend," he added. "My intention in bringing it to the screen is to create a lasting work of art and engender serious thought among audiences of diverse faith backgrounds (or none), who have varying familiarity with this story."

Gibson continued: "If the intense scrutiny during my 25 years in public life revealed I had ever persecuted or discriminated against anyone based on race or creed, I would be all too willing to make amends. But there is no such record.

"Nor do I hate anybody -- certainly not the Jews. They are my friends and associates, both in my work and social life. Thankfully, treasured friendships forged over decades are not easily shaken by nasty innuendo. Anti-Semitism is not only contrary to my personal beliefs, it is also contrary to the core message of my movie."

According to the statement released Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League and an ad hoc group of Jewish and Catholic scholars that advise the U.S. bishops' conference had distributed an earlier draft of the script obtained from an insider source. "We regret that this situation has occurred and offer our apologies," said Mark Chopko, general counsel for the bishops' conference, according to the statement.

"I have further advised the scholars group that this draft screenplay is not considered to be representative of the film and should not be the subject of further public comment," Chopko added. "When the film is released, the USCCB will review it at that time."

According to the statement released by Gibson's Icon Productions and reviewed by the bishops' conference, the "group of scholars, convened via e-mail and the Internet, had intended to read the confidential script in order to request revisions of the film that conform to their ideas of history and theology."
Gibson dismissed claims that this film would be heretical in the eyes of the Vatican.

"For those concerned about the content of this film, know that it conforms to the narratives of Christ's passion and death found in the four Gospels of the New Testament," he said.

"This is a movie about faith, hope, love and forgiveness -- something sorely needed in these turbulent times," Gibson added.

The Gibson camp also cautioned against judging an unfinished film that no one outside the production team has even seen.

"While we respect everyone's right to their opinion about the film, no one has a right to publicly critique a film that has not even been completed, let alone base their critique on an outdated version of the script which has been illegally obtained," said the film's producer Steve McEveety.

Gibson directed and co-wrote "The Passion," which wrapped filming in Italy in April. Icon Productions is aiming for a spring 2004 release for the $25 million production. The film, which will feature dialogue only in Latin and Aramaic with no subtitles, has not yet found a distributor.

The project has been dear to Gibson's heart. At a news conference last September, he said: "Obviously, no one wants to touch something filmed in two dead languages. Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend language barriers with visual storytelling."



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Posted - June 16 2003 :  2:37:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Highlander's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I think that an accurate story about Our Lord will be wonderful,even if there are no subtitles.Resistance from Hollywood can be expected.They have always been anti-christian,and more importantly,anti-catholic.Like my old college professor used to say,"You know you're good when they talk about you"

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Posted - July 01 2003 :  9:17:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Another view of Gibson's upcoming film from a Jewish source:


Gibson’s ‘Passion’ Termed Anti-Semitic

Interfaith scholars say Jesus film could reignite deicide charge.


By Eric J. Greenberg - Staff Writer

Hollywood superstar Mel Gibson’s upcoming movie about the death of Jesus is anti-Semitic and could lead to increased hatred of Jews around the world, a team of prominent Catholic and Jewish scholars is warning.

In response, the Oscar-winning Gibson has threatened to sue the scholars.

An 18-page report sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League warned that the film, slated for release next year, could trigger increased anti-Semitism by reinvigorating the ancient Christian charge of deicide — that Jews were responsible for killing Jesus — which is believed to have caused the persecution and killing of Jews for two millennia.

“A film based on the present version of the script of ‘The Passion’ would promote anti-Semitic sentiments,” according to the “Report of the Ad Hoc Scholars Group,” a copy of which was obtained by The Jewish Week.

The group is comprised of nine prominent Catholic and Jewish scholars at major universities across the country who reviewed a copy of the script.

One leading Catholic theologian called the script “one of the more anti-Semitic documents most of us have seen in a long time.”

The scholars’ report said that Gibson’s graphic portrayal of the crucifixion of Jesus is too brutal, and filled with historical and theological errors.

The report also accused Gibson of violating primary Roman Catholic Church doctrine about how to accurately present Jews in the story of Jesus’ final hours when he is persecuted and killed in an event Christians call the Passion.

The Vatican guidelines, adopted over the last 40 years, seek to modify traditional Passion plays — emotional dramas retelling the crucifixion story that have blamed the Jews as responsible for Jesus’ death. Over the centuries these plays prompted pogroms and riots against Jews.

The scholars made numerous recommendations to change scenes that portray Jews and the High Priest Caiphas as evil.

The report was sent to Gibson and his Icon Productions on May 2. In response, Gibson sent a letter to the Bishops Conference threatening to sue the Washington-based group and the scholars, sources confirmed.

Gibson in his letter accused the Bishops Conference, the Roman Catholic Church’s official body, of using a “stolen” script of “The Passion” as the basis for the report, sources said.

It was not clear how the Bishops Conference obtained the script or which version was reviewed by the nine scholars, five of whom are Catholic and four Jewish.

The film, directed by Gibson and shot last spring in Matera in southern Italy, is being edited in Hollywood. None of the scholars have seen it.

Nevertheless, they expressed grave concerns based on what they read.

“Viewers without extensive knowledge of Catholic teaching about interpreting the New Testament will surely leave the theatre with the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-hungry Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus,” said the confidential report, which has not been released publicly.

The scholars group was formed in March by interfaith officials at the Bishops Conference and ADL after Gibson revealed “The Passion” would be a graphic presentation and that Jews may be unhappy with his version.

The group’s formation was also a response to public assertions by Father William Fulco, an ancient languages expert at Loyola Marymount College in California, that the Gibson script complied with Roman Catholic law. Father Fulco translated the script into Aramaic, the daily language of Jews 2,000 years ago.

Gibson wrote, directed and is financing the $40 million film, but he is not appearing in the movie, whose actors will speak only Ara

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Posted - July 03 2003 :  01:20:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
"Another view of Gibson's upcoming film from a Jewish source:

Gibson’s ‘Passion’ Termed Anti-Semitic

Interfaith scholars say Jesus film could reignite deicide charge.

By Eric J. Greenberg - Staff Writer"


Unfortunately, this is one of the more base propaganda pieces I've read lately. Greenberg asserts & repeats falsifications in this smear ad with apparent disregard for known facts. His credibility is sorely lacking & his knowledge of basic Christian theology is so miniscule it's embarrasing to read. The motive here seems simply to injure the reputation of ("traditionalist, Catholic") Mel Gibson & misrepresent Catholic teaching as a 'pay back' for Gibson's treatment of a subject some wish to never hear of - the Passion of Christ.


Hollywood superstar Mel Gibson’s upcoming movie about the death of Jesus is anti-Semitic and could lead to increased hatred of Jews around the world, a team of prominent Catholic and Jewish scholars is warning.

Interesting charges. The team is neither "prominent" nor reputable enough to be issuing such ignitable "warnings" but their reckless, hateful charges of anti-Semitism could lead to increased hatred of faithful Christians around the world - or at least, in the US where Catholic bashing is an accepted norm. (Some call it the 'last frontier of bigotry & prejudice that often encourages and/or tolerates hatred directed at Catholics & Catholicism.')

In response, the Oscar-winning Gibson has threatened to sue the scholars.

Not true. The rumored threats of a lawsuit were NOT in response to the Ad Hoc group's "warnings," but of this group's ILLEGAL THEFT of an earlier working draft of a script, a FACT Mr. Greenberg knows of but omitted in his lawsuit assertion. The STOLEN draft was bad enough - the condemnation of Mr. Gibson's film (and of his religious beliefs) without having seen the film or even the current script is inexcusable. THIS is the bigger issue, I think, & one which seems to be passing by with little or no commentary. The whole premise of this group's formation & its subsequent actions (theft, leaking, baseless charges, hysteria, personal defamation of the film's director, misrepresentation of intent, & repetitive falsehoods regarding Christians) could only lead one to wonder if this isn't just common bigotry. The so-called Catholic scholars are anything but representative Catholics of good faith.

An 18-page report sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League warned that the film, slated for release next year, could trigger increased anti-Semitism by reinvigorating the ancient Christian charge of deicide — that Jews were responsible for killing Jesus — which is believed to have caused the persecution and killing of Jews for two millennia.

Here's where Greenberg continues to repeat untruths for the sole purpose of inflammatory prejudice. He knows the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has not sponsored this report & he knows they've gone on record saying so. On June 11th, two days prior to Greenberg's article being printed in the Jewish Weekly. He knew of this statement & ignored it.

"Neither the bishops' Committee on Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, nor any other committee of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, established this group, or authorized, reviewed or approved the report written by its members. The bishops' Committee on Ecumenical and Interreligious knew only that the scholars' group intended to offer comments for the private consideration of the producers."

It is true the Anti-Defamation League sponsored the inquisitorial group (Rabbi Eugene Korn is listed as one of the Ad Hoc group's "scholars") & Abe Foxman's letters condemning the film can be read on the ADL website. What are their motives if not simply to discredit & intimidate Gibson? They've hardly played by the rules here - agendas are pervasively apparent.

But, reinvigorating "the ancient Christ

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Posted - July 04 2003 :  4:55:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Lainey,

Take a deep breath....

This is "old news", although your detailed deconstruction of the biased article is definitely on target. But, a "working print" of THE PASSION has been screened for some groups, to a very different response than the one given by the "experts" cited above. Check out the reports at the site linked below. Also, check out the entry about a new movie in the works, based on a bestselling novel, that is virulently anti-Catholic. Wonder if it'll draw the same reaction from these "scholars".

Two Kettles

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Posted - July 08 2003 :  04:27:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Thank you very much, Two Kettles, for the great link & the 'take ten.' I am tired of journalistic nitwits running around deliberately misrepresenting Catholic doctrine, teaching, & history - not to mention facts of current events - & using their media clout to do it.

From all I've heard 'The Passion' will be a beautiful, faithful, incredible experience - as a work of art AND as an expression of faith. Now that the *critics* have given it such fantastic publicity, the audience might very well increase.

Regarding the other side of the coin ... we'll not hear a peep from the "concerned" scholars about that. Nothing to be gained for them ...

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Posted - July 08 2003 :  8:27:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Forgive me for bringing up old issues, but as it is an issue of continued interest and study for me, I thought I'd post some more information. The issue in question is the presumed ommittance of Greek from this film, which was discussed between Lainey and myself earlier in this thread. As I've said before, I don't believe everything that has been posted on the internet, especially since it has not been released yet. But it still bothers me that there has been no mention of Greek. All the press releases still refer only to Latin and Aramaic as being spoken in this film. And since there has been no word from Gibson to the contrary, I can only reluctantly assume this is true until I see the film. Should Latin be highlighted over Greek in this film? I say no.

In the most recent issue of Biblical Archaeology Review there is an article by Alan Millard on "Literacy in the Time of Jesus." Millard points out that "Every year, hundreds of small bronze coins minted by Jewish kings in the first century B.C. come to light in Israel. Those struck for Alexander Jannaeus (103-76 B.C.) bear his name and titles in Hebrew and Greek or in Hebrew and Aramaic. The coins of Herod the Great and his sons have only Greek legends. The same is true for the Roman governors of Judea."

"The prevalence of the Greek language in the first century A.D. is also apparent from Greek public notices set up in Jerusalem. Most notable are the stones warning non-Jews [in Greek] not to enter the sacred courts of Herod's Temple. One had to be able to read to know what the signs said."

"In addition to receipts and property leases, Babatha left behind a marriage-contract for her stepdaughter Shemalzion. The back of the contract bears the signatures of seven witnesses, in tree different languages: Aramaic (the first four), Greek (the fifth), and Nabatean (the sixth and seventh). Clearly, second century A.D. Israel was a multi-ethnic area, in which several languages were written and recognized."

"Excavators at Masada found notes in Greek about supplies of barely and notes in Hebrew about deliveries of bread."

The only mention of Latin is the labels of wine and food containers prepared in Italy and shipped to Masada by Herod for his palace, as Herod had close ties to Rome. "So by Jesus' lifetime, Latin was already current in Judea's royal pantries."

Now, is it wrong for Mr. Gibson to include Latin in his film about Christ? I don't think so. But I do say it is wrong to make Latin more prominent than Greek, and to totally exclude Greek at all. I believe Greek was much more commonly written and spoken than Latin in first century A.D. Judea. Do you suppose Pontius Pilate and the Roman soldiers (who where most likely non-Italian/non-native-Latin speaking auxialliaries) would have used Latin to communicate with non-Latin speaking Jews? No, they would have used Greek, since just about everybody who could read or write in this time and place knew Greek. If Greek was more commonly written than Latin, would it make sense for Latin to be more commonly spoken? No! I am afraid of the consequences of not including Greek in "The Passion," since many of the viewing public who are ignorant of the history will falsely believe Latin and Aramaic were the most common spoken languages, and they may even beleive these were the only spoken languages.



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Posted - July 08 2003 :  9:57:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Ranger,

You bring up a very interesting point, and one that probably falls into the category of "how much historical accuracy can a movie audience handle". I'm sure most people would expect that the Jews spoke Hebrew or Aramaic, and the Romans Latin. I know, until reading your posts and some other articles on this movie, I thought that was the case. So Mel, in trying to make a "historically accurate" version of the Passion has to decide whether to go with what people expect, or what scholars (and other very well informed folks) consider to be the case. And Mel has apparently opted to match expectations, at least where language is concerned.

There may be another angle here. From some of the stills I've seen, it looks like they have Jesus carrying the whole cross, instead of just the crossbar. I thought the consensus today was that the condemned only carried the crosspiece. But most artistic renderings show the whole thing. Might Mel be more interested in making an artistic statement, visually, aurally, and in other ways, than in making a documentary type, historically accurate production? Then his use of Latin, rather than Greek, might make more sense. If Pilate says: "Behold the Man", we recognize it. If he says: "Ecce Homo", most of us recognize it. But, what would the Greek equivalent be? Would anyone understand?

It does seem odd to go to the trouble of making a film in ancient languages, and then not use the proper languages. On the other hand, read what Wes Studi has said about the "Huron" spoken in LOTM....

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