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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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 Posted - October 15 2002 : 5:26:31 PM
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So what do you all think? Does Robert Rogers of Rogers' Rangers desevere all the fame and attention he's received over the years, (especially from reenactors)? Some have credited him as being one of the great miltary leaders of history. His battle record shows mixed results with his St. Francis raid a Pyrrhic victory at best. His ranging rules, and use of Native allies were hardly original. Frontier rangers were using similar tactics for years before, dating back to King Philip's War and Benjamin Church's company. Let's hear some other opinions.
- CT•Ranger
"Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot
Edited by - CT•Ranger on October 15 2002 5:30:52 PM
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Rangermaj
Site Historian
USA
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Posted - October 16 2002 : 01:27:30 AM
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One thing to consider at least during the timeframe in which he operated that gave him his fame (and he was already being called famous by April 3, 1756 in the Connecticut Gazette), is that he was taking the fight to the enemy for the British forces in a span of years where no other British attempts seemed to be successful. That is not to say that he was always successful in his missions, and he did make mistakes as all do, but his actions led to raising the moral of the British forces when there was not much else to get excited about. Something to comtemplate. As for today, there are alot of reenactors doing Rogers' Rangers, myself included, but I think that it is a worthwhile interpretation and brings an awareness to the visitor of events that they fit into the heritage of our nation's history and military and in a role that is very appropo in today's world of irregular warfare. Just some thoughts that come to mind in the early morning hours.
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant,
George A. Bray III
Major, Rogers Rangers
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - October 17 2002 : 2:44:20 PM
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Quote:
'One thing to consider at least during the timeframe in which he operated that gave him his fame (and he was already being called famous by April 3, 1756 in the Connecticut Gazette), is that he was taking the fight to the enemy for the British forces in a span of years where no other British attempts seemed to be successful.'
Not entirely true, Col. Armstrong, of the 2nd Battalion Pennsylvania Regiment, conducted a VERY sucessful raid against the Delaware village of Kittaning in September of 1756. This raid included a total of over 400 miles forced macrching, a per-dawn surgical raid, the destruction of enemy war material and among the other prizes was one very dead Delaware War Chief, and the return of some captured Pennsylvanians.
Your Humble Author,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
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Posted - October 17 2002 : 2:48:22 PM
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I might also add to the above post, it caused the French at Ft. Duquesne such fear that they strengthened the fortification proper and added a 150 by 50 yard hornwork off the NE bastion of the fort. This was done, and documented by several French officers serving at Duquesne, for the belief that Col. Armstrong was going to attempt a second raid before spring.
Your Humble Author,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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Edmund McKinnon
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - October 18 2002 : 7:53:21 PM
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I recall a History Channel presentation of Robert Rogers.I enjoyed it immensely.It even covered how he was once charged with counterfeiting.I believe that his tactics and rules were sound(still in use at U.S.Army Ranger School today).He did not however,have the only market on the corner though.As Sgt.Munro has stated,Col.Jack Armstrong's raid on Kittanning in Sept.1756 was nothing short of pure genius as Rogers never made it into that theater.EM
Edmond N.Highlander Jr. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
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Posted - October 18 2002 : 9:45:48 PM
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I think the exact charge was the passing of counterfeit currency. Him and his brother both escaped the hangman's noose that time.
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
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Rangermaj
Site Historian
USA
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Posted - October 18 2002 : 10:36:24 PM
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I have not studied Armstrong to any great degree, and what he did no doubt was important to the cause of British arms. But, I don't think we can compare him to Rogers, or vise versa. I am a great admirer of Major General James Wolfe. However, I would never try to compare Rogers and Wolfe. Each performed their duties as best they could, and were successful and famous for what they achieved in their own right. Their fame, and that of others, is determined in part by their contemporaries. Some who are considered such even by their contemporaries don't make it to posterity later on. I think one example of an officer who performed extremely well, and contributed greatly to the British arms was Colonel John Bradstreet. And while a biography was written about him, not many would recognize him today. And he fought as an irregular soldier as did Rogers. It is interesting to ponder why some make it and others don't.
George A. Bray III
Major, Rogers Rangers
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 19 2002 : 08:21:44 AM
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I don't think that I was making a comparrison, as much as shinning a light on the truth. The truth is that Maj. Rogers was not the only one 'taking the fight to the enemy' during those dark years after the defeat of Gen. Braddock. Also, the ranging tactics to which Rogers is given credit, was nothing more than the compilation of the advice given to him by experienced woodsmen like Stark. The same tactics were in use by Col. Armstrong's men in 1756. Maj. Rogers claim to fame lies not with his 'discovery' or any innovation, but more to the fact his being the first to write down and arrange into a manual format, what people on the frontier for generations called common sense.
Your Humble Author,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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Rangermaj
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USA
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Posted - October 19 2002 : 11:00:31 AM
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Understand your point on others taking the fight to the enemy, and Rogers not the only one. And others using the same or similar tactics. However, it seems contemporarily, it was Rogers who is constantly being mentioned in the journals, diaries, newspapers and obviously by word of mouth around the colonies and in England. He and the rangers were constantly in the field regardless of season each year of the fight, and thus was getting the exposure. As for the rules of ranging, no one would claim he was the originator of many of them, if any of them. As for him being the first to document them, that seems to be true. He did so in compliance with Lord Loudoun's instruction for raising a Cadet Compamy to teach gentleman volunteers those rules. To be honest, Rogers was not even the first to teach the British how to fight an irregular war. In 1756, a New Hampshire provinicial officer and 15 men went to Saratoga to teach the British how to fight "after the New England fashion". This officer was Captian John Titcomb and the event is noted in the diary of Doctor Ammi Ruhamah Cutter. Again, there were many who were capable and did a great service to the cause of British arms.
George A. Bray III
Major, Rogers Rangers
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 19 2002 : 1:40:41 PM
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I agree 100% with you, Maj. Bray. If you are interested in a detailed account of Col. Armstrong's Raid, it can be found within the following books:
INDIAN WARS OF PENNSYLVANIA (SIPE, S. Hale)
FORTS ON THE PENNSYLVANIA (HUNTER, William)
FRONTIER 1753-1758
EARLY HISTORY OF WESTERN (RUPP, I.D.)
PENNSYLVANIA
LOUDON'S INDIAN NARRATIVES (LOUDON, Archibald)
VOLUME 1
These are only a few of the books which contain excellent resource material on the preparation, conduct and aftermath of the raid. I hope it helps.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
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Rangermaj
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Posted - October 23 2002 : 1:18:07 PM
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Sgt Munro,
Thanks for the information/references. Appreciate it.
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant,
George A. Bray III
Major, Rogers Rangers
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
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Posted - October 24 2002 : 01:01:25 AM
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Anytime, Major, us professional soldiers have to stick together.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 31 2002 : 10:02:05 AM
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I have a question for any Ranger Historians out there. Is ther any documentation relating to the use of rifled firelocks, by select marksmen, in Rogers Rangers?
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
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Big Duncan MacLaren
Pathfinder
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Posted - February 16 2003 : 10:44:05 AM
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Esteemed Liste:
I just received an advertiser for the "8th Annual War College of the Seven Years War", at Ft. Ti, on 17-18 May 2003. I would give my right arm to go but Ti is too far for me just at the moment.
Anyway, it appears that Rogers Topics dominate the schedule. Tim Todish on "Robert Rogers: the Man and the Myth." Steven Brumwell on " The St. Francis Raid Revisited." J. Robert maguire on "Major Robet Rogers' Map of the Attack on St. Francis." And more....
For more info the adveriser says contact Karl Crannell -- karl@fort-ticonderoga.org
Your Servant,
D. Maclaren, Pvt.
Grenadier Coy., 77th Foot |
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Robert Rogers, does he deserve the fame?
