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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
USA
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May 18 2002
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 Posted - December 29 2006 : 2:06:01 PM
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I am opposed to capital punishment, except in very limited circumstances. (If a person serving a life sentence commits another murder, then he/she have proven to be a threat to those around him/her. In that case, I view the death penalty to be appropriate, since the person would be a continuing threat to guards, medical personnel, other inmates, etc. Since in these circumstances the security provisions of the penal system proved inadequate to prevent a subsequent murder, I don't see a viable alternative.)
As I write this, the execution of Saddam Huesein is imminent. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061229/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq That man is a mass murderer. Tragically, it appears likely that his execution will provoke a violent response. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061229/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_3 It is likely that more citizens of Irag will die as a result of the execution, and it is not unlikely that members of the coalistion forces will die also.
I would hate to be the Officer informing a service member's family that their loved one died so that the world could have the satisfaction of Saddam Hussein being executed.
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 10:13:27 AM
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| I, too, am against capital punishment. In this particular case, I'll allow an exception. Though, and hard to say why, I do feel a bit of remorse over the whole deal. Will pass, I am sure! |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 11:08:59 AM
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| He was a bad man that is true and deserved punishment but I would not wish hanging on anyone. I feel saddened by the news and he went bravely to the noose from the clips it shows on tv. I just feel they should have kept him locked up for the rest of his life and not possibly make a "martyr" out of him. It is just revenge. I am not really sure where I stand on capital punishment but at least in this country it is done in a humane way. |
IG |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 3:49:41 PM
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Please! Let us remember what sort of person this man -- and I use that term loosely! -- was. There was absolutely nothing good about him. Nothing. He was a horrible dictator who participated in and advocated things that have no words to adequately describe them. I am amazed at the words that have been used here: brave? revenge? saddened? remorse? (Rich, I hope that feeling passes quickly!)
He was not brave; he was an inhumane coward. It was not revenge; it was justified punishment. I have absolutely no saddness or remorse over his death. The world is minus one more tyrant, and thankfully so.
Sorry, folks. That's the way I see it. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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March 14 2005
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 4:29:10 PM
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| Ditto WW, - doubt I'll loose any sleep over whatshisname. If the Europeans had any b***s during the 30's, and "took Hitler out" early, instead of the "peace in our time" approach, - millions & millions of lives everywhere would have been saved. Those type of people CANNOT be negotiated with, it's a total waste of time. |
you can keep "The Change" |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 5:37:40 PM
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| WW you are entitled to your opionion and I mine but I never said he was a brave man. I said he faced death and the hangman's noose bravely. Were it me being lead to the gallows I would be kicking and screaming and peeing my pants to put it mildly. I get no joy at his being put to death or anyone else for that matter. I feel saddened even though he was a bad man that he came to such an end. I can understand some Iraqi family who sufferred at his hands being joyful about his hanging but I don't see how anyone not directly affected by his regime can be so happy and jump for joy at the news. I have compassion for others no matter how bad they are. I can't explain why I felt sad yesterday when I heard he was to be hanged by 6am Baghdad time but I was. I just don't feel it was right. My opinion only and to each his own. |
IG |
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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 6:00:43 PM
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Saddam Huesein was 'taken out" as a threat when he was captured, so the Hitler analogy did not apply, in my opinion.
So far, my browsing of the internet finds no particular uptick in violence, so that is good.
Sectarian violence is a huge problem in Iraq. Saddam Huesein was exectued specifically for the sectarian violence that occurred when he (a Sunni) ordered the deaths of Shias. Here is an opportunity for capital punishment to prove its effectiveness as a deterent. If it is a deterent, then sectarian violence should decline in coming weeks. |
We become what we think about. |
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Kaylynn44
Mohicanite
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 6:15:57 PM
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I really try to stay out of these forums because they tend to get a little heated at times. Everybody has their own opinion and they feel strongly about their opinions on these subjects, but I have to agree with WW and MG. I don't feel sorry for Sadam one bit, but I do feel sorry for all of the poor Iraqi's that died at the hand of this brutal dictator. He killed and tortured people without any remorse. I don't feel any remorse about his execution.
Love,
Kay |
~ An Infinite Zephyr~
Some things never end
As long as goodness exists
Winds shall always soothe
www.cloudsbooks.com
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 6:21:15 PM
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| Death to that type of individual is warranted, - and does apply. We simply look at this differently. Given the chance, he and his followers would easily take out Israel, the Irianians (again) and anyone he had a problem with. He already attacked Israel during Desert Storm, who had not fired a single shot. If Israel is attacked, (who likes or dislikes them is unimportant) the chance of WWIII starting is extremely high. Sooner or later all the world players will become involved. Better to nip it in the bud, and NOT follow in the 30's example. If it causes problems, and it may, - so be it. Better that a replay of WWII. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - December 30 2006 : 6:46:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
I feel saddened even though he was a bad man that he came to such an end. I can understand some Iraqi family who sufferred at his hands being joyful about his hanging but I don't see how anyone not directly affected by his regime can be so happy and jump for joy at the news.
I didn't say I was jumping for joy. I simply said I carry no sadness or remorse.
quote:
I have compassion for others no matter how bad they are. I can't explain why I felt sad yesterday when I heard he was to be hanged by 6am Baghdad time but I was. I just don't feel it was right.
Compassion is admirable. However, as Kaylynn has stated, I prefer to direct my compassion to these people:
1. Countless women who have been raped and forced to be prostitutes by Saddam's regime, and by his sons.
2. Approximately 5,000 Iranians were killed by chemical weapons between 1983 and 1988.
3. In mid-March of 1988, Saddam Hussein and his cousin Ali Hassan alMajid -- the infamous "Chemical Ali" -- ordered the dropping of chemical weapons on the town of Halabja in northeastern Iraq. This killed an estimated 5,000 civilians.
4. The Anfal campaigns. Beginning in 1987 and accelerating in early 1988, Saddam Hussein ordered the "Anfal" campaign against the Iraqi Kurdish people. Human Rights Watch estimated that between 50,000 and 100,000 Kurds were killed.
5. In March and April of 1991, Saddam Hussein's forces killed somewhere between 30,000 and 60,000 Iraqis, most of them civilians.
6. Beginning in the early 1990's, Saddam Hussein's government has drained the southern marshes of Iraq, depriving thousands of Iraqis of their livelihood and their ability to live on land that their ancestors have lived on for thousands of years.
7. Ethnic cleansing of ethnic "Persians" from Iraq to Iran, and an ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing of the non-Arabs of Kirkuk and other northern districts.
8. The regime has also carried out a systematic campaign of murder and intimidation of clergy, especially Shi'a clergy. The number of those killed unlawfully is difficult to estimate but must be well in excess of 10,000 since Saddam Hussein officially seized power in 1980.
Yes. This is where my compassion lies. Not with the man who was responsible for these horrible acts. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - December 31 2006 : 10:43:14 AM
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| Yeah, I feel deep compassion for those who suffered at his hands but I, as a Christian, can also feel compassion for my enemies. Executing Saddam will not stop the violence over there. It will continue and be "business as usual" for the terrorists. There will be those elements who will only be more determined in their course because of his being put to death. |
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
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Posted - December 31 2006 : 1:42:50 PM
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I am not opposed to capital punishment - especially when it fits the crime. I'm not sure how I feel about this though because I don't think having killed him will do any good. I think he'll just become a martyr for the cause. I was impressed by the speed of it all though.
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Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - December 31 2006 : 9:24:48 PM
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"He deserves death." (Frodo)
"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement." (Gandalf)
The Fellowship of the Ring, pg. 69.
Although I honestly don't feel too badly about Saddam Insane, still...nothing will bring back his victims. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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Posted - December 31 2006 : 9:28:27 PM
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There are so many, many voices on this topic. All of them stating different views, other perspectives; that is good. Diversity helps us to have a broader understanding of not only each other but humanity as a whole.
But I could not think of a more sorrowful existance.
He died for the price of his evil actions and tyranny and the world is a better place w/out his presence; but it saddens me deeply to actually find myself saying that about another being.
Capital punishment...there was a time where I stood for it 100%...now I'm not so sure. It's a two-edged sword and we all know it.
If I had to choose I would stand where Dark Woods stands. I am against it for first time offenders but see its validity for those persons who are a danger, not only to themselves, but to all others.
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - January 02 2007 : 05:40:35 AM
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The one thing that some of you are missing is that the concept of capital punishiment is not a form of retribution, or punishment, carried out by the state. It is meant to show the value that a society places on an innocent human life. To give a mass-murder like Huesein free room and board for the rest of his natural existence, would be to cheapen the value of every person killed by his hand, or command.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
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Posted - January 02 2007 : 06:19:24 AM
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| Right on, Duncan, me lad....right on. |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - January 02 2007 : 07:48:22 AM
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| Thge guy killed millions, every chance he got - like feeling sorry for Pol Pot, Hitler or Stalin. |
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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - January 03 2007 : 9:34:16 PM
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| I appreciate the many viewpoints that have been expressed. Thank You. |
We become what we think about. |
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Dancer
Pioneer
USA
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November 29 2006
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 4:25:58 PM
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Excuse me one sec while I climb onto my soap box!  Here is my OPINION on capital punishment. Inmates today have a comfortable life behind bars. Three square meals a day, state of the art gym equipment, a roof over their head, cable tv....need I go on, I think not! These inmates are criminals plain and simple...now look at the homeless person sitting in the rain starving to death. They, more than likely, never broke a law in their life and are living a life of pain and misery. How is that fair? Prisons are overflowing with hardend criminals because everyone is so touchy feely on the death sentence. WHY?! Here is a scenerio for you to think about. A man (or woman) struggles with their finaces and is about to lose everything they have. They decide to rob a gas station and in turn, kills the defenseless person behind the counter. They get arrested and get sentenced to life in prison because it is inhumane to electrocute them.  What have they lost? Bills, having to hold down a job, supporting themselves, etc. It's fair to say they have it a little easier now. This is fair? It is not suprising that our crime rate has gone up. I say an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. You kill someone, you should be punished accordingly NOT rewarded.
Not to say that this should be the way it is.......BUT.... if you cut off the hand of a theif...do you honestly think they would ever steal again? Those who would will eventually have no hands to steal with. I think criminals should fear their punishment not shrug it off because they know our judicial system has turned soft. How soft was the criminal when they killed a 90 yr old woman execution style for her jewelry?! I think it is a safe bet to say not very soft at all. But let's not be inhumane about it by pumping them full of lethal poison. I am sure that 90 yr old woman or that father of three would prefer to see the person that took their life have a comfortable exsistence sitting on their lazy backside behind bars.
Ok....(climbs off my soap box) hit me with the rotton tomatoes and heads of lettuce but think of how you would feel if it was your child, parent, or grandparent that was brutally murdered and you see the criminal hanging out in jail for the remainder of their life. |
"I teach the dance...the passion is yours to find." |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 4:53:38 PM
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Inmates do have it too easy in prison and they have all the rights. Hardened criminals should be made to do "hard time" like in the past. Send them out on chain gangs and make they split rocks until their hands bleed. Send them to some sort of "Devil's Island" where they work all day and are exhausted at the end of the day. Feed them the bare minimum of food. No cushy life with computers and tv's and gyms to work out in. If prison was more like this, I think it would be a deterrent to crime. Not every State has the death penalty and it is not a deterrent anyway. Murderers will continue to murder regardless of the death penalty. Now if they thought they were going to suffer for the rest of their life on some "Devil's Island" they might think twice but then again maybe not. Never going to happen anyway.
God says it is wrong to take a life under any circumstances and the death penalty is a lot about revenge not justice. If someone killed my child I would be full of rage and want to personally rip that person apart with my bare hands. I would be filled with hatred but you know what, even if they were executed it would not make me feel better or bring my child back. It might give me a moments pleasure but I would still be empty. I am on the bench on the question of the death penalty. Sometimes I feel like I am in favor of it and other times not so I suppose I am more against it than anything else.
Well, I have rambled on long enough so I will get down off my soapbox too. Don't worry, no rotten tomatoes going in your direction from me. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 5:14:37 PM
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| The idea of a prison sentence as an appropriate punishment for a crime came about in the 19th century, when the idea that a bad person could be reformed came about. In the 18th century prisons were for debtors, or as holding places until the time of punishment. Punishment might be whipping, branding, hanging, or other creative things. It didn't seem to deter crime, but you didn't have to house and feed them either. And if you were in prison for debt, you had to provide your own food, etc. Less expense that way, but the level of crime was still high. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 5:39:34 PM
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| An eye for an eye, - so to speak. With todays' technology, DNA - we can determine if someone committed the crime they're charged with. Only with undisputable DNA evidence should capital punishment be used. If there's a clear match, - adios. |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 5:41:43 PM
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| Meant to add, - for characters like Saddam & sons, a few million victums/witnesses should surfice. |
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Dancer
Pioneer
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Posted - January 06 2007 : 6:13:39 PM
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| Sounds good to me Monadnock! |
"I teach the dance...the passion is yours to find." |
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My View on Capital Punishment
