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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - January 06 2007 : 8:33:47 PM
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| It was in the script. |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 07 2007 : 06:51:03 AM
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Very good point Seamus; for only in Hollywood would you see a King's Officer wimp-out in front of the enemy. That would rank right up there with LOTM's portrayal of the regulars as incompetent bufoons. The same 'bufoons' who historicaly kicked France out of Canada, gave the Indians a bloody nose at Bushy Run and then marched an army right into the very heart of the Shawnee Nation to force a peace... Yeah, it sure is amazing how at one time, a quarter of the globe was 'British Red' and that the 'Sun Never Set On The British Empire'.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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August 16 2006
Status: offline
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Posted - January 08 2007 : 01:45:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dancer
Well he cried like a girl in the movie!!!!!!!!
So would you if you were the guest of honor at a Huron BBQ... |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 08 2007 : 2:32:49 PM
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Well,
1st I'd cry and beg for mercy.
2nd I'd fight like the devil to get out alive.
And if those didn't work I'd scream my bloody female lungs out!
And any man I know would do the same with flames lapping up your body as it melts into streams of sticky goo.
(Yes, I know what a burn is like - had a 4th degree burn on the inner part of my left calf a couple years back. Thanks to medical technology you'd never know!)
I didn't cry but that sucker hurt like hell!! If it had been my entire body at once hell yeah I would cry! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 25 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 08 2007 : 4:00:49 PM
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I'd definitely have to agree with Light here! YIKES!!! And though I hate to take even the teeniest bit of issue with a veteran old-timer like Sarge, I think his characteristic of British character is just a wee bit biased. ;-) Not that there weren't many brave and worthy British soldiers and officers in the Colonies at the time we're talking about -- it's just that I see a lot of ground between characterizing them as "buffoons", as LOTM supposedly did?, and saying that they really kicked a** quite the way he puts it. "Bushy Run" may have been a "bloody nose" for the Indians; but despite the performance of the Highland regiments there, British losses of 10% -- by some estimates -- are nothing to (you should forgive the pun) sneeze at either! ;-o I'm also reluctant to say that any lasting peace was *forced* on the Shawnee by anyone, and the subsequent bloody state of the frontier in Kan-ta-kee, the Ohio Valley, and my own native Indiana, is testament to the continuing militant stance of that tribe... still very much a force to be reckoned with. As to "kicking the French out of Canada", no disrespect to the mighty British Empire, but there are thousands of French Canadians thriving there today that might see this as a bit of an oversimplification, and could make a case that they (being the French) never did leave that country at all. :-) I also hasten to add, Sarge, that I *really do* like your fiction that you've posted elsewhere on the site, and respect you as a student of History! BTW, your signature line (or at least the English translation) was, ironically, the general philosophy sometimes employed by the former IRA. :-o
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 08 2007 : 6:25:20 PM
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quote:
Redbird noted: And though I hate to take even the teeniest bit of issue with a veteran old-timer like Sarge, I think his characteristic of British character is just a wee bit biased. ;-)
Aye Lass, biased maybe, but also very well supported in many primary source documents of the period (i.e. Kirkwood, Peebles, Mante, Knox, Stewart & Bouquet... Just to name a few).
quote:
Redbird also said: "Bushy Run" may have been a "bloody nose" for the Indians; but despite the performance of the Highland regiments there, British losses of 10% -- by some estimates -- are nothing to (you should forgive the pun) sneeze at either! ;-o I'm also reluctant to say that any lasting peace was *forced* on the Shawnee by anyone...
When somebody marches an armed force right into your backyard, and you do not stop them, and then they make demands, which you comply with, it is pretty safe to say that you just got your posterior handed to you.
quote:
Redbird then added: and the subsequent bloody state of the frontier in Kan-ta-kee, the Ohio Valley, and my own native Indiana, is testament to the continuing militant stance of that tribe... still very much a force to be reckoned with.
Would that be the same force that Lord Dunmore smacked-down in 1774? (And where the Shawnee War Chief Cornstalk was executed, after his capture during the Shawnee defeat at Point Pleasant) -Or the same force that was a threat to American frontiersman during the Revolution, while directed by British Masters?
quote:
Redbird then said: As to "kicking the French out of Canada", no disrespect to the mighty British Empire, but there are thousands of French Canadians thriving there today that might see this as a bit of an oversimplification, and could make a case that they (being the French) never did leave that country at all. :-)
There is a sizable population of French descent still living in Canada, of course they are not in the majority, and they ceased being 'French' with the signature of loyality oaths in 1760. The French provincial government, and their military were booted out prior to the mostly peacful conversion of the civilian populace.
What I was saying is that an empire, which covered a good part of the globe, was not forged on fool's luck. Sure, there were always setbacks initially, since Britain, like the U.S., has always been a 'bloody nose' country. That being, most militatry adventures would begin with period of defeat, until they would get serious about kicking their enemies teeth in, and then you would have victory after victory. The only exceptions in both our nations histories, were the American Revolution and Vietnam; where the governments of both countries, and not the warriors, managed to loose the war, while winning most of the battles.
Also, thank you for the kind words concerning my historical fiction. I do owe my readers some chapters, and now I can finally write some (Due to a settling-down of some recent upsets on the homefront).
YMH&OS,
The Sarge
P.S.- As for my signature tag-line |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 14 2006
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 09 2007 : 09:24:01 AM
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| Who knew talk about inflatable Uncas dolls and other LOTM toys could insight such a debate. |
IG |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 11:58:03 AM
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Yeah...here we thought that all threads led to Uncas.
So nice of you to bring him back to life, Irish.
Now...about the Uncas inflatable dolls...I recieved my first one and then had a vision during a vision ceremony(good ole' peyote! ) that he wanted me in the worst way ](Why, Uncas..I didn't know you cared ) and let's just say it's no longer standing ...I think you might want to improve on the quality of your products, Fitz. |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 14 2006
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 09 2007 : 1:00:15 PM
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| lol You're just too rough on them Light. Sure that Uncas inflatable got a "good thorough workout"..heehee |
IG |
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 25 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 1:31:03 PM
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Sorry, ladies... don't mean to stay off thread here (incidentally, Light ... that's another reason for an inflatable Hawkeye doll -- good to have for back-up if your Uncas doll is er, um... "injured")! ;-) However, I didn't want to leave Sarge with the impression that I was deliberatley trying to antagonize him.
First of all, Lol! I have to say thanks, Sarge - I don't remember when I've been quoted so oft and so well! :-) Also thanks for the "Lass" since I'm probably old enough to be -- well, your slightly older sister? Anyway, I would not think to get into a debate with the Sargeant. I had the experience of hearing Russell Means speak on more than one occassion, meeting and talking with him... and once, he even gave me a ride home during a snowstorm (long story, and well before LOTM was a gleam in MM's eye). He can be a very persuasive guy, but I doubt that even he would be able to get Sarge to change some of his views on either the dynamics of Indian warfare and politics, or their relation to the British as a military and colonial power in the early Americas. That's always been, for me, one of the most interesting parts of studying History. We may all look at the same situation from the past (sometimes, even the same sources) and still come up with different interpretations of it. And since I tend to identify more with the Indians and less with the British, I'd have to say I'm not without bias either. ;-)
So I don't see the Shawnee "getting their posteriors handed to them", but perhaps that's only because I'm not looking at it from the perspective of a British officer or soldier. There are lots of books out there, and lots of History profs.; and Sarge and I could have even gone to the same grad school and *still* drawn different conclusions!
As for Lord Dunsmore's "smackdown" (I'm loving the WWF reference here :-), people like Black Fish and Tecumseh were there to carry the fight on, to the detriment of settlements all through the area I previously mentioned. And in many cases I think the Shawnee did try to ally themselves with the British, if they thought it would serve their purpose. Unfortunately (for the Tribes), such alliances -- with either of the major European powers -- never produced the long term results the Indians were hoping for.
I think Quebec especially would beg to differ that they "ceased being French" with the loyalty oaths of 1760, despite the turnover in government. I wonder if we will live to see the total end of the separatist movement there? Simlilar perhaps to the sentiments of some of the Irish, when most of that country was still under British rule.
As for you tag line Sarge, thanks for clearing that up for me. I assumed your "or" was a translation of the previous Latin statement. It is the English one that sums up a lot of past, especially more recent past, IRA philosophy. Having grown up Irish Catholic, I know just enough Latin to have thought that was one *liberal* translation, but would have thought it bad manners to come right out and say so. Thanks again for clearing that up for me.
"What I was saying was that an empire which covered a good part of the globe was not forged on fool's luck." -- Sargeant Munro
Ahhh... on that, my dear Sargeant, we could not be more in agreement! Now come give us a kiss, ya great shaggy Highlander... I cannae resist a man in a kilt! :-D
Now, back to the "durability" issue, Fitz... I think any of the ladies here will be glad to help you with product development and quality control. We'd better get going on this...! There's only about 350 shopping days left until Christmas -- and Mattel probably has spies in Mohicanland, for all we know! :-o |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
Status: offline
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 4:06:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Redbird
As for you tag line Sarge, thanks for clearing that up for me. I assumed your "or" was a translation of the previous Latin statement. . . . I know just enough Latin to have thought that was one *liberal* translation, but would have thought it bad manners to come right out and say so. Thanks again for clearing that up for me.
Not to take away from the discussion, but I appreciated the explanation of your tag-lines, too, Sarge. I also thought that the second phrase must be a sort of translation of the first. Like Redbird, I knew it was quite "liberal"--I'm a Latin instructor, after all!--and just assumed that there was some joke I wasn't getting. Now I understand!  |
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 25 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 5:10:17 PM
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"I also thought that the second phrase must be a sort of translation of the first. Like Redbird, I knew it was quite "liberal"--I'm a Latin instructor, after all!--and just assumed that there was some joke I wasn't getting. Now I understand!"
--- RedFraggle
OMGosh, Red (which BTW, is the only thing my Dad ever called me for most of our lives) -- if I thought the same as a Latin instructor did, then those poor nuns did a much better job than any of us realized!
Nuther redhead 
"magis amicus veritas" |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 5:13:22 PM
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As to product durablilty, I suspect that the Uncas doll was seriously abused, and that is a consumer issue and not a manufacturing one. Please refer to the instructions.
I correspond with some Canadiens on other message boards, and their primary language is French. Some have even appologized for their English not being all that good. They sometimes make spelling errors using a more French spelling of a word, and they will put sentences together as one would in French. (Actually their English is better that a lot of US born people!) I think they haven't stopped being French any more that the Asian Indians stopped being Indian when the British impossed the Raj at about that same time. I could not see them wanting to re-attach themselves to the France we have today, but an independent and French Québec? That's someting to think about!
Oh, and a few other thoughts . . . Monongahela, Choueguen, Lac Sacrement, Carillon, St. Charles, St. Foy . . . |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 25 2004
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Posted - January 09 2007 : 5:28:23 PM
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"As to product durablilty, I suspect that the Uncas doll was seriously abused, and that is a consumer issue and not a manufacturing one. Please refer to the instructions."
--- Fitz
Uh... I'm willing to bet Light's instructions got thrown out with the giftwrap, as soon as she opened the box?! 
 |
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 10 2007 : 7:04:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams
As to product durablilty, I suspect that the Uncas doll was seriously abused, and that is a consumer issue and not a manufacturing one. Please refer to the instructions.
I correspond with some Canadiens on other message boards, and their primary language is French. Some have even appologized for their English not being all that good. They sometimes make spelling errors using a more French spelling of a word, and they will put sentences together as one would in French. (Actually their English is better that a lot of US born people!) I think they haven't stopped being French any more that the Asian Indians stopped being Indian when the British impossed the Raj at about that same time. I could not see them wanting to re-attach themselves to the France we have today, but an independent and French Québec? That's someting to think about!
Oh, and a few other thoughts . . . Monongahela, Choueguen, Lac Sacrement, Carillon, St. Charles, St. Foy . . .
Instructions? It needs instructions?  |
Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 10 2007 : 8:17:53 PM
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quote:
Instructions? It needs instructions?
Apparently so, if it is going to last for any length of time. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 10 2007 : 9:09:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams
quote:
Instructions? It needs instructions?
Apparently so, if it is going to last for any length of time.
Well, guess one can't speak for all dolls when it comes to timing... |
Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 25 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 10 2007 : 9:21:12 PM
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"Well, guess one can't speak for all dolls when it comes to timing..."
--- Caitlin
Kudos, Caitlin! I didn't even realize what a great straightline that was, until I read your response! |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 11 2007 : 4:14:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
lol You're just too rough on them Light. Sure that Uncas inflatable got a "good thorough workout"..heehee
I've never heard an inanimated object plead for mercy before. Then again, lots of weird happenings occur when the peyote gets you! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 11 2007 : 4:17:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams
As to product durablilty, I suspect that the Uncas doll was seriously abused, and that is a consumer issue and not a manufacturing one. Please refer to the instructions.
Oh, silly me. It said handle with care. Well...I gave it all the care it could take so I demand a full refund!! |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 13 2007 : 12:22:31 AM
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Kudos, Caitlin! I didn't even realize what a great straightline that was, until I read your response!
Well, though the lines of conversation have been interesting, maybe it should have been moved to a different forum? I thank everyone though, for an insightful and diplomatic discussion. It's very refreshing to see different views and taken as such... different views. 
Thanks, Red for recognizing my bit of humor.. I try! |
Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."
"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 14 2007 : 10:10:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by caitlin
Well, though the lines of conversation have been interesting, maybe it should have been moved to a different forum?
...and that has now been done.
Good discussion! You may now continue it in The Lion's Den under the thread "The IRA." |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
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Posted - January 15 2007 : 12:35:56 AM
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Oooh, the "Lion's Den." Sounds like we better "gird our loins" for serious conflict.  (Or other, similarly biblical-sounding phrases.) |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 15 2007 : 10:56:32 AM
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| I was wondering what the IRA had to do with an inflatable Uncas. Sounds like only 5 1/2 degrees to me. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 13 2006
Status: offline
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Posted - January 16 2007 : 08:07:38 AM
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Well, everything's relative, I guess.
On the subject of the Uncas doll, I think the prototype needs some work:
Image Insert:
17.27 KB
We already know he doesn't hold up very well, from what Light has said. Now about that chest hair....
Sorry. Just having a bit of fun! |
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