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paazau
Colonial Settler
Australia
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March 11 2006
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 Posted - March 20 2006 : 01:04:09 AM
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I've been thinking about Chingachgook refraining from speaking in English around those he does not know, whereas Uncas doesn't hold back. Chingachgook can obviously speak and understand English perfectly well, but always seems to choose to speak in Delaware.
The only place I seem to recall Chingachgook speaking English around English-speaking people is when approaching the Cameron's cabin (the first time, in the evening with the laden mule). Other than at the end of course, which is more for the audience's benefit I felt.
What are others' thoughts on this; and what this says about the father's and son's differing outlooks on the Brits??
Shaz
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"You do not know what you're saying girl!"
"Yes I do, I know exactly what I am saying, and if it is sedition, then I am guilty of sedition too!" |
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MeggieD
Colonial Settler
USA
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Posted - March 21 2006 : 10:54:21 PM
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| Since Uncas learned English at a young age at the Reverend's school he is probably more comfortable in using it. It could be that Chingachgook didn't learn it until later in life (possibly from Uncas and Nathaniel) so is less likely to use it all the time. I think the only time we see Uncas speaking Delaware is under the falls and is only few syllables (typical of Uncas who has what - six lines in the whole movie) |
Uncas: "some food" |
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paazau
Colonial Settler
Australia
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Posted - March 22 2006 : 12:44:20 AM
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I agree, Uncas and Nathaniel would be more comfortable with using English, and Chingachgook probably learned it from them when he was older. I just get the feeling that Chingachgook speaking Delaware when he does says mountains about his trust/distrust of the English. It would be a powerful card to have up your sleeve; to understand the language but for them to not know you understand it. And Hawkeye speaks to them in Delaware in certain situations too. (I'm thinking of when they are in Munro's office when they first arrive at the fort. Uncas speaks freely to Munro, but when they leave, Hawkeye says something to Chingachgook in Delaware. When they arrest Hawkeye, he speaks to both of them in Delaware not English. And under the falls, Hawkeye and Chingachgook converse in Delaware.)
Shaz |
"You do not know what you're saying girl!"
"Yes I do, I know exactly what I am saying, and if it is sedition, then I am guilty of sedition too!" |
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raindrops
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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March 25 2006
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Posted - May 20 2006 : 10:06:09 PM
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| I agree with paazau and MaggieD. I also think that Chingachgook's feelings towards British or generally white people weren't very warm or friendly and that also played a part in him chosing to speak his mother tongue whenever possible. Considering this, I find it surprising that he spoke English in the final scene, which was such a precious and personal moment for him. I don't think he did it for the benefit of Cora. I guess it was one of those moments when a powerful effect on viewers is more important for the film makers than being realistic. |
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zinvor
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Armenia
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Posted - May 24 2006 : 02:49:30 AM
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I think it was quite appropriate for them to speak their native language on any occasion. And of course they would speak Delaware with each other, no matter whether they had any reason to distrust white strangers.
I agree with raindrops that Chingachgook would never speak English saying goodbye to his son. And it was made for us, the viewers because hearing those words is much more impressive than reading the subtitles. I think that's the only reason.
And as for Unkas... does Eric know the language? Probably not for he never said a single word other that in English (well he doesn't say much at all). he probably wasn't eager to learn it and that's why they speak English by the CAmeron's cabin, although I doubt thay ever would in real life. |
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MeggieD
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Posted - May 24 2006 : 12:19:13 PM
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| zinvor---Eric learned Chiricahua Apache for the Missing and Comanche for Dead Man's Walk, so I don't think it was an issue of him not being able to learn a native language. I'm sure DDL didn't know Delaware before this role, either. Of his 20 lines, Uncas did utter one Delaware phrase under the waterfall. |
Uncas: "some food" |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
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Posted - May 24 2006 : 12:49:12 PM
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Most generally when movies are made in which the actors are required to speak a few lines in another language, if they don't already know it, they are taught to say the lines phonetically. In other words, they don't need to learn the whole language. Dialogue coaches are used to teach them how to properly pronounce the words so it will sounds as though they are speaking the language fluently.
I don't know if this was the case for any of the actors in LOTM, though, but I would imagine that DDL learned his Delaware lines phonetically. I don't remember if this was addressed in any of the cast interviews. We have discussed Duncan (Stephen Waddington) in the past on this board, regarding the fact that he rattled off those French lines as though he had been born in France. We don't know if he speaks French fluently or not. But it sure sounded great, didn't it? |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
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Posted - May 24 2006 : 12:58:04 PM
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| Was it really Stephen speaking French though as half the time we did not see him but just heard a voice speaking French? Maybe they had someone else say those lines in French. Ever thought about that WW?? I agree about the actors not needing to learn the whole language. That would be silly as all they need to learn is their lines in whatever language they are supposed to be speaking. |
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MeggieD
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Posted - May 24 2006 : 1:20:06 PM
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| That's what I meant in my previous post, that they learned their lines phonetically. Sorry I wasn't totally clear on that. |
Uncas: "some food" |
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zinvor
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Posted - May 26 2006 : 4:13:11 PM
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Yes, I agree that actors do not normally learn new languages and are merely required to speak their lines, otherwise it would make little sense. And I didn't know about Unkas learning
Chiricahua Apache and Comanche. Ooops... Thank you MeggieD.
But still it's a pity Unkas didn't say much. Though I consider it to be the movie's advantage that characters do not say much at all. Music speaks for them. That's great. |
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MeggieD
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Posted - May 26 2006 : 4:52:54 PM
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You're welcome Zinvor....I agree with you about it being a pity that Eric Schweig wasn't stretched much as an actor. He does have an uncanny ability to convey so much with just body language and facial expressions, though.
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Uncas: "some food" |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - May 26 2006 : 6:49:37 PM
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| Yeah Meg that body of Eric's sure conveys plenty to us women out here. I can't begin to say what his "body language" does to me but it does leave me feeling pretty darn good. |
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zinvor
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Posted - May 27 2006 : 4:18:22 PM
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Aha,right. His face (i don't even mention his body) is a very expressive one. But I guess the best face is Wes Studi's, especially when he's scornful.
By the way as for Ching speaking English in the final scene, the same thing in Dances with Wolves - in the end they, too speak English, although Kicking Bird never said a single English word before that. Again an effect on viewers i think. |
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raindrops
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Posted - May 27 2006 : 8:43:34 PM
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Hi zinvor! Regarding Dances with Wolves, I think that maybe the reason Kicking Bird spoke English in the end was that he wanted to make a special effort in order to say goodbye to his friend in his lanuage. The way he speaks shows that he is struggling a little bit and what he says is not as significant as Chingachgook's prayer. But then, probably it was for the viewers' benefit as well. |
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LeyLana1462
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 Posted - May 28 2006 : 09:48:06 AM
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Oh dear! i saw Eric and something about Body oh and there was something about language....hmmmmmm.......
Paazau, you ask deep question at late hour, hmmmmm.......lol
I think you guys are correct in saying that it would have been hugely to their benefit not to let the white man know he spoke their language.
Now, back to thinking about Eric and the BODYlanguage and....hmmmmmmm.....   |
They are all there, but one.
I, Chingachgook, Last of the Mohicans. |
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zinvor
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Posted - May 31 2006 : 10:14:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
I think you guys are correct in saying that it would have been hugely to their benefit not to let the white man know he spoke their language.
May be one of the reasons they did was that they didn't want to be thought of as "those dumb Indians". But I suppose Chingachgook didn't care about it at all. He seems to hardly notice them at all! Just does what he thinks he has to without asking or saying much.
Hawkeye was probably more concerned. He was the one to say "Ask him (Unkas)" after Hurons' attack (about their horses). And the girls were supposed to be surprised that Unkas knows English so well, at least that's what was said in the scenario. |
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LeyLana1462
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Posted - May 31 2006 : 5:22:42 PM
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Didn't you just love the look of suprise on the girls' faces when Uncas told them the horses are too easy to track.
But even better, that's the first time we really get to hear him speak...............oooooohhhhh..........swooooonn  |
They are all there, but one.
I, Chingachgook, Last of the Mohicans. |
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Chingachgook and Uncas - speaking English and Delaware
