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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
 Posted - January 20 2005 : 9:16:53 PM
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Tommy,
Thank you for returning and registering to join in the discussion. And thank you for returning to explain more clearly to us what your feelings are about this issue. I, for one, am very interested in what you have to say, and you make some very valid points.
You know, there is a "wannabe" part in most all of us, I think. I would love to be able to prove that the old family legend which claims I have a Mohawk "princess" (according to the legend, she was a daughter of the Mohawk chief called King Hendrick) in my ancestry is true. I would love to be able to say I have more than just a drop or two of Scottish blood in my veins and that my people settled the Carolinas in the 1700s. I would love to be able to say that I had an ancestor who came over on the Mayflower. I would love to be able to say that my family migrated from the east to California with a wagon train in the 1850s instead of by train in 1900. But I can't say any of those things. Those are my wannabes. But I don't dwell on them because I am very happy with who I am.
I can understand, in part, why Lonewolf is acting and talking an Indian lifestyle. But, like you, I feel that he is overdoing it. And I certainly don't understand his attitude of such hatred toward everyone who was white over 250 years ago. Frenchman, other Europeans, Americans, Virginians... he has attacked them all with the same ferocity. I feel sorry for Lonewolf, in a way. I think he dislikes himself because he is mostly white. And I think he enjoys this role of much-maligned Indian he has taken for himself. I think Lonewolf would do very well to take your advice. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Okwaho
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 24 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 9:46:57 PM
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I too have read most of the posts by Lonewolf and also the last post by my Navajo brother,Pukamagane and his are the words of truth.My four times great grandfather who was of Welsh descent married a Monacan girl about 1800 in Virginia in either Amhurst or Bedford County and I descend from that union.My grandfather who practiced law in Middle Tennessee for 57 years always told us that his mother{my great grandmother} was part Indian but we never asked him what tribe.Through diligent and painstaking research I now have what I think to be a solid cir-c-u-m-stantial case for my being of Monacan descent.I haven't gone to DNA because I have no reason to doubt my grandfather in any way and in addition I have quite a bit of other evidence. For my grandfather,a highly respected attorney in a small Middle Tennessee Town, to make such a statement in the 1950's was totally unheard of and it has only been in the last few years that having Indian blood was acceptable. In fact,it was only a step above admitting black blood.This is the reason why oral statements of Indian blood in the South are so readily and completely accepted.Genetically I am what is sometimes called a "generation jumper" in that I mirror my grandfather and my mother but have no resemblance to my father or those I know of his family.
I have not had DNA testing because I know who and what I am and do not have to shout my Indian heritage of which,like the other ethnic groups from whom I descend and of whom I am proud, from the mountain tops.I do not say that I am "part Indian" lest some one like the elderly Osage woman I heard of,will ask "What part, the arm,the leg etc.There are those whom we call "chest thumping Indians" who are constantly,both literally and figureatively, thumping their chests with their forefingers all the while shouting from the mountain tops,"I AM INDIAN". Well like many Southerners I am of mixed racial heritage.I have some Scot's Irish, English,Irish, German,,Welsh, Scottish,and Monacan Indian blood which makes me an American.
I participate in 17th and 18th century living history and battle reenactments as an Indian warrior albeit an older one.I am often asked " Can I portray an Indian without having Indian blood?"My answer is always the same and I speak here only for myself.I really don't care whether or not you have Indian blood,as long as your heart is pure and you do honor to the nation you portray.That's all most Indian reenactors want from you as a prospective brother Indian reenactor.
Lonewolf proudly and loudly professes his Indian heritage but Me thinketh he doth profess too loudly.
Tom Patton, Okwaho Atakerah
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It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 21 2005 : 08:11:27 AM
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quote:
Okwaho stated: Well like many Southerners I am of mixed racial heritage.I have some Scot's Irish, English,Irish, German,,Welsh, Scottish,and Monacan Indian blood which makes me an American.
Anyone who is a U.S. Citizen is an American, first and foremost. Just as 'Old Glory' takes precedence over any other flag, so to our American identity overides all of the bloodlines which came before it. Speaking as a Northern 'Heinz-57', whose heritage runs from Spain to Russia (Yeah, there wasn't one part of Europe that my ancestors didn't procreate in), I am first an American. Well said, Okwaho!
quote:
Wilderness Woman said: You know, there is a "wannabe" part in most all of us, I think.
You are 100% correct, and a good number of us are reenactors because of that truth.
quote:
Wilderness Woman also said: I would love to be able to prove that the old family legend which claims I have a Mohawk "princess" (according to the legend, she was a daughter of the Mohawk chief called King Hendrick) in my ancestry is true.
King Hendrick, you say? Wow, that would be too cool!
Your Most Humble Servant,
and fellow 'mixed-blood',
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 21 2005 : 09:21:22 AM
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Welcome, Pukamagane......
Navajo, you say? Arizona or New Mexico? Many years ago I was a Freshman at the University of New Mexico, a transplanted Pennsylvanian, (loooooong story how I got way out there!)and had a neighbor in the dorm who was Navajo. We became fast friends and I attended the big Pow-wow with him in the Spring, meeting many of his family and fellow tribesmen and women. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and grew to very much appreciate the Native People for themselves. I was welcomed and made to feel at ease and at home by them. He left school after a year and I only saw him once after that, the next year at the big gathering. Recently I did a Google search on him and was quite happy to see that he has done many good things for the tribe and was honored for doing so....... His name is Frankie Marianito. He also had a Stomp Band, which was OUTSTANDING! Man, did we have some fun when they were playing!
I realize that this relationship was the start of my appreciation, respect and genuine fondness for the American Indians...of ALL tribes. I have learned so much from my association with many Native men and women, and am so much richer from that.
Sarge is absolutely right: "Anyone who is a U.S. Citizen is an American, first and foremost."
Anyway, welcome, and please do feel free to jump in at anytime....on any issue! |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Okwaho
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 24 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 21 2005 : 8:06:11 PM
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Welcome Pukamagane,It is always good to have another native on the board despite your somewhat questionable association with an Indian we know in Illinois who shall remain nameless.It is good to have someone with whom I have fought our enemies.Your first post as a member was excellent and I look foward to seeing more of them.
Megwetch
Tom Patton, Okwaho |
It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 12 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - January 21 2005 : 10:08:08 PM
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Has anyone on this board noticed that it was Tommy that attacked me, and not the other way round? He is the namecaller here. I tried to be civil to him but he is hateful to me. He twists everything that I say so that he appears to be the authority on Indian affairs. Or takes everything out of context. He is the proverbial "angry" Indian that I run onto every once in awhile. Instead of extending the hand of friendship, they prefer to bite your hand, and do it publicly so that everyone will see how "big" they are.
I have talked to Russell Means. He, unlike Tommy, was very respectful, and didn't attack me.
I have talked to Vine DeLoria Jr., author of many books. I was one of the people who provided security for him at one of his lectures in my hometown. He also was very respectful, and thanked me for my participation. I did not receive any reward as far as money. I was there because I wanted to be.
I spent my money and time to participate in a protest march in Washington, D.C. in an effort to try to get the government to give Leonard Peltier a fair trial or to release him. I didn't have to be there. I gained nothing by being there. I simply don't like injustice in any form. I was thanked for my participation, not spit at. The percentage of my heritage was not questioned.
I didn't expect anything in return when I became a charter member of the National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, D.C. They thanked me for my contributions. If I was the "white man" that Tommy says I am, why in the world would I have bothered with them at all? I have nothing to gain (in fact, I gave to them). I asked nothing in return.
Tommy, you need to grow up a bit.
Have fun on the Mohican Board, it's all yours. One of the things that you learn in life is this: don't try to be reasonable with unreasonable people, it's a real waste of time. I am appalled at your childish attitude.
I have more to do than to put up with people who love to argue. Those of you who wish to contact me can do so at : lonewlf99@aol.com Don't bother contacting me Tommy. Play your games with someone else.
This will be my last post on the LOTM.
Ask Tommy about his ancestors. I am sure that he can provide you with some interesting stories.
P.S. My mother was Shawnee. She is no longer here to prove her heritage to Tommy. I really don't think she would find him worthy of her effort, if she was still alive.
My white father is dead as well. His ancestors arrived here from Germany in 1710. He was a very abusive person who never showed my mother proper respect. He beat her and called her every foul name that he could think of, including a few nasty ones directed at her heritage. He beat all four of his children, two boys and two girls. One of my sisters was born crippled, but he beat her as well. When I became old enough to protect my mother and siblings from him, I told him that I would kill him if he ever beat us again. He didn't like me, in fact he was afraid of me. That was good. I would have made good on the threat. I would have killed this white abusive loudmouth in a heartbeat, and would have had absolutely no remorse. I came to identify with her heritage, not his. When he died, I shed not one tear for him. His body was burned. There was no funeral.
Goodbye all, take care. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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 Posted - January 22 2005 : 01:39:25 AM
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| Man, that guy is always pissed off. Tommy, you seemed pretty civil about the whole thing. Glad to have you aboard. It's better to have someone around that can express themselves calmly and without such venom, I think we made a decent trade. Still, it always sucks to see someone stomp away mad. Lone Wolf, if you calm down you should come back and play again sometime. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - January 22 2005 : 06:46:08 AM
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I agree, Sus ...
Ken, you are welcome here ... you add, shall I say, color! I think everyone was polite toward you ... no reason to rant.
All points well-taken ...
It is sorry to see so much hate within a person. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 22 2005 : 10:51:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lonewolf
I would have killed this white abusive loudmouth in a heartbeat, and would have had absolutely no remorse. I came to identify with her heritage, not his. When he died, I shed not one tear for him. His body was burned. There was no funeral.
Well, I think this goes a very long way toward explaining why Lonewolf harbors such strong hatred toward anyone who is white, and why he is attempting to be Indian.
As I said in some other thread where he was attacking everything and everyone who was white from the present day, back to 400 years ago, I pity him. So much hatred is not a healthy thing, and I feel he should have had counseling many years ago.
Tommy, please do not think that any of us here believe that Lonewolf is even close to being an accurate representation of Native American peoples. Believe me, we do not! Now. We would love to talk with you more about you, your heritage, what you do, and who you are.
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Pukamagane
Lost in the Wilderness
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 20 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 24 2005 : 1:04:57 PM
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Hello everyone, sorry about the slow reply. My immediate family is actually from Colorado. I grew up mostly in the midwest. No great stories to tell, I am not really a traditional person and I probably couldn't fill a thimble with my knowledge of Native history. Wasn't sure if you would remember me Okwaho, we only met a couple times. This was kinda weird topic to start posting with but I feel most all people here are respectful of other cultures.
Tommy |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 12 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - April 20 2005 : 03:54:08 AM
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You are not misunderstood Tommy. You think that by denigrating me with personal attacks, that everyone will see that you are a "real" Indian, and I am just some idiot who doesn't know who he is.
You are not the first to slap my face, and you won't be the last. I have met many like you, Indian and white.
I have been to some western reservations. I have seen the way some of the people live in squalor. I was raised poor, but we never lived in those conditions. We picked up our trash and had it hauled off. We went to school and made an attempt to elevate ourselves. Drunkeness and crime and living in a trash dump is not "culture".
I have also met Russell Means. I respect his opinions, but he is not someone with whom I care to associate with, nor do I care to have FBI agents follow me everywhere I go, as they do him. It's kind of difficult to get anything done with agents looking over your shoulder 24/7. I support AIM, but I will not support violence, and I get the sneaking suspicion that Means doesn't mind getting involved in violence.
I have friends and relatives from some of the reservations. My friends and relatives are nice people.
Instead of expending your energy screaming and yelling about who is, or who isn't an Indian, why don't you direct your anger toward doing something to alleviate the poverty on reservations.
Try to enhance the education of all Indian children. I am working toward this goal. I have made some inroads. Working with one large corporation in particular, I have convinced them to make college scholarships available to all Indian people, where there was only discrimination prior to my efforts. My only reward is satisfaction that the discrimination has stopped. I don't like injustice in any form. I've seen more than my share of it.
I don't know about your people, whoever they are, but our Shawnee people have always had a sense of humor, something that you seem to lack. I have "fun" with some of the re-enactors on this board. Some take me and themselves a bit too seriously; so what? They need to lighten-up a bit and have fun. We Shawnees used to send white settlers up and down the Ohio River looking for a "lost silver mine" that never existed. They bit the "bait"! It provided us with a few laughs, and no-one was hurt. I don't think that you have ever laughed! Try it sometime; it makes you feel good. Can I not make fun of the way the old Hollywood movies had Indian people speaking like buffoons, without you getting angry? You know they did this! They made Tonto look stupid! I was making fun of Hollywood. Lighten up!
I have a French friend who calls me a "savage injun" and I call him a "frog". Who cares? We laugh about it. Our people fought the English together, so we have something in common.
I have a Chippewa niece from North Dakota, married to a Cherokee nephew. She doesn't share your anger. She doesn't attack me. She was raised on the rez, and she was taught respect for her elders. Same for my Seneca and Oneida cousins from New York State.
You sound just like the white government in Washington, D.C. with their stupid "blood percentages". You are welcome to "buy-into" their BIA garbage if you are so inclined; I refuse to! If the "dogs" in that sewer want to bark at me, they are simply barking themselves hoarse! I really don't care to listen to their nonsense.
Tommy, my family relatives are descended of those white settlers and Indians who were still standing after the dust settled on a sixty-year, un-ending war on the western Pennsylvania frontier. We were killing each other wholesale! We are all family now. The wars are over! Are we not allowed to discuss the history that we lived through?
These re-enactors try to live it, but get a bit squeemish and hostile when I "get in character" for the time period. They think it was a "romantic" time period. Far from it! It was just plain brutal and the a |
Ken Lonewolf |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - April 20 2005 : 09:34:00 AM
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*****SIGH********
Lonewolf.
You are trying my patience mightily. I cannot understand why you have come back here to reopen an unpleasant topic that has been dead for 3 months, only to repeat the same things you have said over and over again, ad nauseum. I, for one, am very tired of it.
This topic is hereby locked.
Wilderness Woman, Forum Moderator |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Indian Blood
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