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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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 Posted - January 10 2005 : 10:53:04 AM
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Hey,
My 4x great grandmother, a red-haired, blue-eyed Scot woman was captured by my Shawnee people in western Maryland in 1755. I'm sure that she went through a lot that Alice did in the fictional account. But during prisoner exchanges in the French and Indian War, she made the choice to stay with the Shawnee, becoming the wife of my Shawnee 4x great grandfather. Love finds itself in the strangest of situations. How many of us have picked a woman for a wife that was the last person that you thought that you would want to live with? Or a woman lucky enough to pick us great Shawnee guys?
Okwaho: me talkum John Wayne Hollywood Yengese. We stupid "Injuns" not know as much as smart white man. Could you have read my message if typed in the Algonkin language? Lighten up, and have fun! Life is only a temporary situation! Go for the gusto!
Yes, the "Frogs" were next on our list! Allies? You've got to be kidding! We couldn't trust them anymore than we could trust the English.
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Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 10 2005 : 10:57:23 AM
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Hi Okwaho,
I like to make fun of Hollywood movies that portray us as not being able to speak Yengese. John Wayne, big draft dodger, no speak-um Injun. He no hero. Just big bagum wind! |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 10 2005 : 3:30:02 PM
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Hey Owaho,
Can't I make fun of bad Hollywood movies? We Indians weren't capable of speaking Yengese. All we ever said was "how" and "ugh". We were always the red "steppin fetchits". The French never did us many favors. Yes, we had planned on lowering the "frog" population, right after we lowered the Yengese population. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 11 2005 : 9:59:49 PM
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We only used the French. We considered all Europeans to be dogs sired by the same European bitch (mother dog), only their spots were different.
Okwaho; me talkum like bad Hollywood movie. Hollywood think all injuns stupid.
We think that they should have cast someone other than John Wayne in all of the cavalry movies, since he was a draft-dodger. He managed to do a lot of his own stunts, but somehow convinced the draft board that he was unfit to fight for his country. Typical celebrity. Celluloid hero! A bum!
If you were an Indian, instead of play-acting one, you may see through different eyes. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 11 2005 : 10:04:47 PM
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| What is happening to my posts here? If you don't like what I discuss, I will not be back. Do I have to agree with everyone to not have my posts renmoved? |
Ken Lonewolf |
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Lurking Huron9787
Anonymous Guest
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Posted - January 12 2005 : 12:05:40 AM
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| LONEWOLF YOU ARE NOT NATIVE, QUIT PRETENDING TO BE |
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wlogwihlas
Pathfinder
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 10:10:49 AM
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Lonewolf- Not true, not all natvies considered europeans to be dogs sired by the same bitch, don't know where you came up with that. Do you have any proof for that statement?
That being said.....
Hollywood wise, she would stay with uncas, which would be the nice story, and the story that would bring a smile to all. |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Okwaho
Pathfinder
USA
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December 24 2004
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 11:42:15 AM
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wlogwihlas,Sir you are correct.Not all Natives considered all Europeans to be dogs sired by the same bitch,indeed far from it.
Sir John Caldwell,fifth baronet,Castle Caldwell,County Fermaugh,Ireland was an officer in the British 8th Regiment of Foot in America{1774-1780} who was assigned briefly to Fort Niagara and then to Fort Detroit. He was elected a chief of the Ojibwa Indians who gave him the name of "Apatto" or "Runner".A portrait painted of him in his Indian finery on his return to Ireland is shown on the front cover of "Bo'jou, Neejee!" and his superb collection of Native material is now in the Canadian Museum of Civilization.
There are others who were adopted into various tribes such as Peter Espirit Radisson who went on to help found the Hudson's Bay Company
Tom Patton
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It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 9:49:16 PM
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Lurking Huron,
I am of Shawnee-White Madoc-Oneida-Seneca on my mother's side, and my father was from the German Amish people in Pennsylvania. He chose not to stay with the Amish life. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have already had my DNA anylized. Where does your Wyandot blood come from? You use the name Huron. I don't have to pretend to be anything, I am who I am! I can't change my family history. Although there are a few in the family tree that I would like to eliminate! But hey, we all take the good with the bad. If you don't care to believe who I am, then please ignore my posts. I cannot judge you, as I really don't know you. I like the way you used CAPITAL LETTERS to shout out your opinion of me. Shouting in Indian culture is very bad manners, and if you are Indian, you should have been raised to know this. I am 65 years old, and probably your elder. Real Indians are taught to respect elders, they don't insult them. I am also a military veteran, something else that real Indians are taught to respect. Have you ever met me? How have you arrived at your conclusion that I am not an Indian? You must have some great gift to know who people are without meeting them. The "Grandfather Above" must have given you powers that few on this earth possess. I can only stand in awe of someone with these powers!
My 4x great-grandfather was Chief Good Peter of the Oneida Nation. His wife, my 4x great-grandmother was a Seneca woman. His portrait, done in oils on wood, is in the Trumbull Gallery at Yale University. If you are near that location, I am sure that they would be glad to show it to you. Good Peter fought with the British in the War of 1812, and survived the war. He and his wife lived to be very old and are buried in Ontario, Canada.
I would not choose to slap your face. Why did you choose to slap mine?
When I go to battlefields or dance pow-wows, I carry my pipe with me. Maybe you and I need to sit and smoke awhile. Then you can judge me fairly.
Take care my friend,
M'Weowa-Ni (Wolf Alone) |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 10:40:30 PM
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Pathfinder,
I was not speaking for all Indians as to the Shawnee attitude toward the French. Indians are not all the same people, as you should know. I am telling you what my Shawnee people on the Allegheny-Ohio Rivers thought of them. These stories have been passed down through the family. Our brothers,the Munsee (Wolf) Delawares thought the same. Some Delaware people sided with the British. Our people watched the French plant lead plates at the confluence of rivers that ran into the Allegheny and Ohio Rivers, claiming our land for France. They told us that they did not want our land, as the British did. We knew better, but we held our tongues, since we needed them to stem the flow of the English onto our land. Our people dug up the lead plates and melted them down for musket balls. One of these lead plates still exists in a museum.
Why should we have trusted people who lied to us? We weren't stupid people.
Would you people on this board rather that I "sugar coat" history so that it is more palatible? I thought that you were re-enactors, and would like to know the true history that my Shawnee people lived through.
I don't like a lot of what happened in the past either, but I believe in looking at history as it actually happened. I had ancestors on both sides of the French and Indian War. It wasn't a "game", my friends. People didn't get up when they hit the ground, as they do at re-enactments. It was very brutal on both sides. And the fighting never ceased in the Allegheny and Ohio Valleys for sixty years starting in 1754. I can only admire those, Indian and white who survived this carnage. A white 4x great-grandfather of mine, James Black, was killed in battle with my Shawnee ancestors in 1781, during the Revolution. Chief Joseph Brant (Theyandanegea of the Mohawks) was present with my Shawnee ancestors at the battle, along with one of the rotten Girty brothers. This was at the Battle of Lochry's Run on the Indiana-Ohio border, on the Ohio River. The remains of James Black were later brought back to Saltsburg, Penna. and buried in a churchyard near there. I have sprinkled tobacco on his grave to honor this warrior. I met the white side of the family at a reunion this past summer near Bushy Run, Pennsylvania. We ate a lot of good food, and shared family stories. I wore my Shawnee regalia, and spoke on the Indian side of the family, and on our culture. We are all one family now. It should have been this way 250 years ago.
I have several genealogy books on the history of my families. Doubters like Lurking Huron are welcome to read through them. The white side goes back to England, France, Scotland and Germany to the 1200's. I do not lie, as some of you think that I do. I don't have to. The truth is much more interesting.
Ken Lonewolf
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Ken Lonewolf |
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Lurking Huron9787
Anonymous Guest
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 12:38:01 PM
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| You had your DNA analyzed, That is the ultimate wannabe. You wanted to be a Indian so bad you paid for it. Got news for ya fishbelly, real Native people don't pay to know if they are Native or not. You carry a pipe around when you dance?, you need to learn some pipe etiquette. AS far as Indians yelling, well its obvious you never been to a tribal council meeting. Listen maybe your great great great great grandma was a native, that doesn't make you one. Its ok to be white, live with it. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 1:21:49 PM
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Lurking Huron 9787, you are entitled to hold your own opinion, but you are not entitled to express it in this manner. This discussion stops right here... right now! Verbal abuse is not tolerated on this board and if this continues, this topic will be locked.
Wilderness Woman
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Lurking Huron9787
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 2:07:01 PM
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Well I will say this then and no more. From a real Native Americans view. I find some of the recent posts highly disrespectful to Native people.I only did this because a buddy of mine showed me this site, he thought I would like to see what was being said. I went to a few reeenactments with him and liked them but eventually quit because of stuff like this. I was fine with white guys dressing Native and studying Native culture even claiming some Native ancestry, matter of fact I was down right impressed with some. But claiming you are a modern Native person when you are not is something that doesn't sit well with me. This is the real Native viewpoint on subjects like these, like it or not, we do not accept people like this. I will post no more on this subject or respond to anymore post.
Tommy Martin - Dene |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 2:27:17 PM
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Mr. Martin,
I understand your feelings on this matter. Many of us here feel the same way you do, myself included. I rarely agree with what Lonewolf says. Your reasoning for saying what you said is very valid. But the fact is he has the right to be here and to express his opinions, just as the rest of us do.
However... as I said above, you cannot express your views in this manner. You must be civil in your discussions. We insist on that on this board, and tolerate nothing less. In fact, I have spoken to Lonewolf about this in other threads.
Now, instead of stomping off in anger, why don't you register, become a board member and participate in the discussions calmly and kindly. It can be done! We would enjoy having you here, under those terms. |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 10:37:28 PM
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Hi Lurking Huron,
I am not Dene and do not practise your customs. I don't even know your customs. Your people were never my people, so you continue in your own ways. I will not call you bad names.
My DNA was not anylized to prove my Native American heritage, as you so quickly jumped to that conclusion. I am working with some people in Europe tracing a portion of my European heritage. We are working on a book to prove that Christopher Columbus had absolutely no claim to the "discovery" of America. Nor any other European. I was asked for a sample of my DNA, which I provided. I did not seek to prove what I already knew of my Native heritage. I Don't meet too many Native people who have your confrontational attitudes, but the ones that I do are mostly from West of the Mississippi River. I have spent much time fighting for Native Rights. I am in a legal fight at present to see that all of our people are treated fairly by certain corporations, as there is prejudicial attitudes among corprate America toward Indians. This is nothing new.
Call me all the bad things that you can think of my friend, but that does not change who my ancestors were. It does not change the history of my family. I never asked for your acceptance of my heritage. I tried to reason with you, but you continue to shout in my face. I hope that the rest of the Dene act in a more civil manner. You have much to learn when it comes to dealing with people.
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Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 11:01:56 PM
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Wilderness Woman,
I was being funny. I guess everyone here is much too serious. My 4x great grandmother was a captive taken in 1755. She was a Scot living in western Maryland. She chose to stay with the Shawnee. She must have been treated well, or she would not have stayed . She had every opportunity during many prisoner exchanges to return to her white society. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 11:05:32 PM
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| Enough of Alice and Uncas for me. I am having to duck too many arrows here. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 15 2005 : 02:04:41 AM
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To Lurking Huron, if you are still here,
Growing up in western Penna., I had a friend who was half black and half white. He always told people that his white mother was the family "maid". One day, when we were walking in the woods, I asked him to respect his mother, and to quit "putting her down", as he should be proud of her, since she gave him birth. He should start to honor her. Don't worry what other people say or think, you stick up for your mother. He finally started to tell others who she was. I was proud of him.
Living with prejudice is not a nice thing to have to endure. My brother, who has passed away to cancer recently, had dark skin, black hair, and brown eyes. He got the native features of the family heritage. I have blonde hair, blue eyes, and light skin, since I received a bit of my father's German genes. In high school, we both were the butt of many cruel jokes. We were called all sorts of not so nice names. I was designated to be "Lone Ranger", and my brother, "Tonto". That and a few "Injun" jokes. We didn't laugh. They were making fun of my mother.
I guess that I felt a kinship to my black/white friend.
My brother was a school teacher all of his life. One day,one of his two two sons turned in a report for English class, in which he explained his native heritage. Later that day, my brother was called to the principle's office to explain why his son had lied on his report. His son's report was on the principle's desk marked with a red "F" for "failure". After a discussion with the principle, the grade was changed to an "A".
My white friends told me that I was too much like an Indian in the way that I thought, and anyway, my brother was too dark to date their sisters. And it was mentioned that since we both were carrying the same genes, our children could turn be born with dark skin.
When I first got up the courage to dance pow-wows, I was told that I was too white. My brother had been made to be ashamed of his native heritage by white people, and never tried to look into participating at native events. I cannot to this day bring his two sons to a pow-wow. They want to be white. This is what prejudice does to people.
Although shunned at pow-wows, I danced a good distance away from the circle where I could hear the drums. At a pow-wow later, I was invited by a chief to dance with him, which I considered to be an honor. I thanked him for recognizing my sincerity.
In the years following, I have made many friends from many tribes. I have been honored to carry the eagle staff into the circle.
I do not claim to be what I am not. I just don't want my Shawnee heritage to die.
Both of my parents have crossed over to the spirit world. I am the only one of about one hundred family members who honors the native ancestors. The rest don't care about their heritage, white or native. I sometimes sit on a hillside overlooking the place of my birth, and at the river that my native ancestors called home, and I am overwhelmed with sadness.
As Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce said: "those who don't honor the graves of their ancestors are worse than dogs". He was a man of great wisdom and nobility.
As long as I breathe, I will honor all heritage of my family.
The Lurking Hurons of this world matter little to me. I have seen too many like him. He is not the first to call me a "wannabe" Indian. He won't be the last.
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Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 16 2005 : 12:51:58 AM
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I have a Chippewa niece, and many Shawnee, Oneida and Seneca cousins. The majority of them are good people. Fortunately, they don't carry the anger that Tommy Martin/Dene does, although they have every reason to do just that. The Dene have suffered at the hands of the Canadian government. There is much anger among many of them, and it is justified.
The anger felt by all native people in North and South America lies not too deeply under the surface. If governments had honored treaties and their words in general, things would be different. Unfortunately, we as native people have never "stood as one" against the injustice heaped upon all of us. Historically, we have fought amongst ourselves, and it still goes on, as evidenced in the attacks on myself by other Indians. I put up with this behaviour at many native gatherings. I guess that it is easier to lash out amongst ourselves, than at the real problem (the governments of the U.S., Canada and Mexico). This is nothing unique to any one native nation. Our nations are as different as the Swedes are to the Italians, the Spanish to the Germans, etc. Mixed-bloods are viewed by many "full-bloods" as no longer sharing of native heritage. They refuse to accept us. So does the government in Washington, D.C. For those of you that are not aware of this sad ongoing situation, I apologize to you that it arose on this LOTM forum. Unfortunately, what happened here, is exactly why the early Europeans were able to take the entire continent.
Tecomeseh (a Shawnee) was well aware of this problem, but was powerless to "unite" those whose grudges against one another took precedence over "survival" of their own people. I admire this great man for trying. He paid the ultimate price for his efforts.
Again, I apologize and I am embarrassed that this happened. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 16 2005 : 01:06:11 AM
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| This is weird. I typed the spelling of his name correctly (T-e-c-u-m-s-e-h), and it comes out wrong on the post! Although there are many spellings of his name. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - January 16 2005 : 07:22:57 AM
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| That'd be because of the Bad Word Filter, Ken ... a pain, sometimes ... Probably, it'd be safe to eliminate that one now [C-U-M] ... the fellow that so enjoyed using that word hasn't posted here in a while ... |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 16 2005 : 11:15:51 PM
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| I wondered. It was late, and I thought that maybe my fingers weren't quite up to typing. Thank you. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 01:28:14 AM
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I don't dance with my pipe. I don't know anyone who does. It is kept out of sight in my car. It is only brought out after the pow-wows are over, and smoked among my native friends only. It is not a council pipe, but a personal pipe made for me by a Catawba elder who lives on a reservation in South Carolina. There is a difference between the two. The maker is a very famous potter among her people. My pipe is unique and no one else has one like mine. There are symbols on the pipe that is not open to discussion with Tommy Martin/Dene, or anyone else. The maker's work is displayed in many museums, including the new Native American museum in Washington, D.C. This pipe was gifted to me with the proper ceremony of the Catawba people.
Different tribes have much different customs. Unfortunately, western Indians tend to think that we should all be following their customs.
Our differences should only be discussed amongst ourselves, not in public, or on forums like this one. Some things are not for non-native eyes or ears. I am appalled that inter-tribal bickering was brought up on your re-enactment forum. I wish that non-natives had not seen this.
I will discuss the history of my family, but that will be all. Some things are best left alone.
Enough said on this subject.
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Ken Lonewolf |
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Christina
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 11:59:27 AM
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Lonewolf and Lurking, I don't know you guys and I don't post here very often anymore, but I was reading this thread just in catching up on what's been going on and I was sorry to see things come to blows.
It reminded me of an experience I had in college that taught me a lot.
One of my best friends was a woman whose mother was an African American woman from Louisiana, and whose father was a Russian Jewish man from New York City. My friend took almost exclusively after her mother and looking at her you never would have known she had a white parent.
During my junior year there was a large upheaval over black/white issues on campus, ranging from divestment from South Africa because of apartheid to a conflict that arose because of the small number of African American faculty and staff members. Things occasionally got ugly but there also was a lot of learning that took place.
The third week of the upheaval my friend was asked to attend a gathering for African American women, where women were going to share their experiences. She attended.
Later that night she showed up at our dorm crying hysterically.
Each woman was asked to stand up and tell her story. My friend told hers. As I mentioned before, she looked almost completely African American and it wasn't until she told these other women about her dad's heritage that she knew she was half white.
One of the women interrupted her, she told us, and asked her if she "acknowledged" her white father and his blood.
My friend answered that of course she did, she loved her dad and was proud of him and having his blood in her veins.
This woman than told my friend "You're not the right kind of black woman then."
It was a very bizarre and sad evening for me, to listen to my friend cry for hours because someone who shared her heritage and her experience turned on her and told her she was the "wrong" kind of representative of her people. It was my first exposure to the very real conflicts that exist within the African-American community, and I have to say this posting exchange was among my first exposures to the differences within the Native community.
My hope for you two and for everybody is that someday we can all live in some degree of peace and respect despite all of our differences. People turning on one another never does any good.
Lonewolf, I've enjoyed hearing your stories and I hope in future we can hear more from you and more from Lurking. I wish you both peace and all blessings and good things.
Christina |
See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge.
Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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Pukamagane
Lost in the Wilderness
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January 20 2005
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 4:44:55 PM
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Well, I think I am misunderstood here. I do not have a problem with anybody of mixed blood. My problam is somebody pretending to be something he is not and being disrespectful to people about it. I have gone over Lonewolfs posts and I keep seeing the same thing. Calling French people frogs, saying they all should have been killed and so on. I see someone portraying the noble savage that has been done wrong by the evil white people when he himself is white, talking in goofy hollywood indian jargin, talking about carrying around a pipe and then backtracking and saying that those kind of things should not be discussed in front of white people, saying I am judging him different because I am from west of the Mississippi and my customs are different. Let me give you a example to try to clear things up. Everyone here knows who Russell Means is right? He is also part white on his fathers side. How many people would want to go hear Russell speak on his experiences growing up as a white kid in America. Nobody, he is not white, that is part of his ancestry but he is not white. I just don't get these guys who find out they are 1/128th Native and then claim to be Native. There are all sorts of scams out there that if you send in money they will do dna or trace your family tree and they always come back with positive results for being NDN.I have seen alot of perfectly good white people be ruined by this type of thing. One day they are Joe Smith the next day they are RunningBear.And then they become the noble savage and white people are bad. They don't even stop to think that if all the white folks would have been wiped out back then they would not even exist. Lonewolf even says that out of 100 family memebers he is the only one that takes part in Native culture, well that should be a clue that you belong to a non NDN family. I have relatives that don't do ceremonies or Pow Wow, they are still Indians. Make no mistake, this is not about Fullbloods not accepting mixed bloods or about how dark you are or the length of your hair, matter of fact most of my Native friends are mixed blood people, one of my best friends is 1/16 Chickasaw but he doesn't pretend to be anymore than what he is. I sat at a drum with him with alot of other NDN people, elders, sun dance priests and nobody said a word to him just smiled and gave him a stick when he sat down. Lonewolf you say you have been called a wannabe and shunned by Native people before, take some advice drop the me indian you white man stuff and be who you trully are a white guy that is proud of the fact that he has a little native history in his family tree.
Tommy |
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