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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
    


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Posted - January 27 2004 : 12:54:34 AM
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Howdy. Just wanted to post a few of the new pictures getting beamed in from Mars via our 2 intrepid rovers, Spirit and Opportunity. Image Insert:
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 81.88 KB They're not quite R2-D2 or C-3PO but they're all we've got. It's good to know that we can do something so amazing amidst all the war, terrorism, homelessness, starvation, corporate greed, and political shenanigans. Do you think Bush's plan to put a man on Mars will become reality or turn out to be election year hooey?
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 04:42:09 AM
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quote: It's good to know that we can do something so amazing amidst all the war, terrorism, homelessness, starvation, corporate greed, and political shenanigans.
Okay you are correct on the 'War', 'Terrorism' and even 'Political Shenanigans'. But 'Corporate Greed'? Hmmmmm, looks like it was some of that old fashioned 'corporate greed' that funded the research and development of this current Mars Mission. As to 'Homelessness' and 'Starvation'; man, are you ever flogging a dead horse on that.
I love when people come out with catchy little sayings like, "You know, every night in America X-number of children go to bed hungry." Well, maybe if mom put the crack pipe down long enough to make a sandwich from the free bread and cheese, not to mention free milk to wash it down, all available through WIC (Women/Infants/Children) Program, junior would not go to bed hungry. As to homelessness, remind me to do a post, in the future, on my own experiments with the 'will work for food' people.
However, I do like the pictures. Good post...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
   
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 12:57:25 PM
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quote: Originally posted by SgtMunro
As to homelessness, remind me to do a post, in the future, on my own experiments with the 'will work for food' people.
I'm afraid I do find that a somewhat blinkered view Sarge. I came within a hair's breadth of losing my home in 2002, through no fault of my own. When I went to seek housing advice, I was commended for asking for help before I ran up huge debts, and then told that there was nothing anyone could do to help me until my house had been repossessed and I was out on the street with my son. Only then would they help me with emergency housing (very nasty bed & breakfast accomodation) - and by then, I would have been one of the nameless faceless homeless. It is only thanks to my family, and the timing of the event that prevented me from ending up homeless. It is very easy to dismiss the homeless as lazy, unwilling to work or junkies who lost everything due to their habit. The reality is somewhat different. An horrific proportion of the homeless are people with mental health issues who have been severely let down by a society that should protect them. Or young people desperate to escape an abusive home. Or even people like myself who couldn't work due to caring for a dependant....
Generalising a social problem like this to such an extent makes it WAY too easy to sweep it under the carpet instead of addressing it.
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securemann
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 4:04:38 PM
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| Good post Adele.We were in a tight spot ourselves some years back through no fault of our own.I know all the B.S. that comes with it and you can EASILY lose everything and become faceless real quick.We are not out of the woods yet.Seems like a recurring nightmare.The issue is more complex for sure.Then again I know about all the frauds and sponges out there because I worked in the system and saw it first hand. |
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Christina
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 4:41:54 PM
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Hi Sgt. Just a word about that "hunger" and "homeless" problem. We all agree that there are deadbeats out there. Always have been, always will be, no matter what the charity or the source of funds. Do you really think all the hungry and the homeless are welfare deadbeats? My office is just down the block from our largest area food bank. I volunteer there occasionally and our neighbor is one of their main record keepers and staffer. Guess who are the primary peoplein need there these days? Lower and middle class families where parents have lost jobs, working folks who have been ill, and elderly couples deciding between food and medicine. The scene isn't much different in many areas around the country. Yep. All these hungry people must have to time those drags on the "crack pipe" in order to be able to rush over there and sponge off the government and everyone else's charity. I too found the Mars pictures beautiful, by the way, Susquesus. I think a trip to another planet would be lovely. Christina
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See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge. Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 4:57:20 PM
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quote: I'm afraid I do find that a somewhat blinkered view Sarge. I came within a hair's breadth of losing my home in 2002, through no fault of my own. When I went to seek housing advice, I was commended for asking for help before I ran up huge debts, and then told that there was nothing anyone could do to help me until my house had been repossessed and I was out on the street with my son.
Well Adele, I cannot comment on the services available to you, since I do not live there anymore. I do find it hard to believe that in the land of the original 'Social Safety Net', that you and your son would have spent any time 'on the streets', that is to say any longer than it would have taken you to fill out the necessary forms to aquire low-income or subsidized housing. In my country, as I am certain in your own, there are so many government and private organiztions in existance that would preclude such a 'Charles Dickens' scenario.
quote: Or young people desperate to escape an abusive home. Or even people like myself who couldn't work due to caring for a dependant....
Once again Adele, I am not buying it. I have far too many years working in law enforcement not to be aware of all of the help available. Let us look at abused spouses for instance. From the time the police arrive to the house for the initial call, till the woman and children are safetly in a shelter and receiving free legal/personal advice, including how to apply for 'freebies' like low-income housing/food stamps/welfare/employment assistance, only a couple of hours have elapsed. That is the facts, I know from professional experience.
quote: An horrific proportion of the homeless are people with mental health issues who have been severely let down by a society that should protect them.
This is the one statement you make that is valid, the majority of the people 'living out of shopping carts' are folks who should have been, and at one time were, institutionalized. It was the 'feel-good' liberal policy of treating them as out-patients, which brought them to their situation. Starting about twenty years ago here, the people on the 'left' believed that the poor 'victims' of mental institutions should not be denied their civil rights to free movement. The same people believed that the former patients could be trusted to take, with regularity, the medications being administered to them under the supervision of medical personel. Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a man or woman who cannot handle performing simple hygine functions, will not voluntarily follow any 'out-patient' treatment.
quote: It is very easy to dismiss the homeless as lazy, unwilling to work or junkies who lost everything due to their habit.
With the exception of the mentally ill, or those who are too proud to use social services, your above description is fairly accurate.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 5:29:43 PM
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quote: Do you really think all the hungry and the homeless are welfare deadbeats?
No Christina, some are people who in a different era would have been institutionalized. May I refer you to my post to Adele...
quote: My office is just down the block from our largest area food bank. I volunteer there occasionally and our neighbor is one of their main record keepers and staffer. Guess who are the primary peoplein need there these days? Lower and middle class families where parents have lost jobs, working folks who have been ill,
Yeah Christina, I am quite aware of the operations of Food Banks. Any of those folks starving? No, they are getting food, right? My point is proven.
quote: ...and elderly couples deciding between food and medicine.
Boy, that's one I haven't heard since the last commercial paid for by a DNC subsidiary group. Another 'urban legend'; as I have said, I have spent a good amount of time working in 'The Projects' and other wonderful garden spots that most people only read about in "Time" or "Newsweek" magazines, and there is no such situation.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
   
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 6:24:08 PM
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quote: Originally posted by SgtMunro
Well Adele, I cannot comment on the services available to you, since I do not live there anymore. I do find it hard to believe that in the land of the original 'Social Safety Net', that you and your son would have spent any time 'on the streets', that is to say any longer than it would have taken you to fill out the necessary forms to aquire low-income or subsidized housing. In my country, as I am certain in your own, there are so many government and private organiztions in existance that would preclude such a 'Charles Dickens' scenario.
quote: Or young people desperate to escape an abusive home. Or even people like myself who couldn't work due to caring for a dependant....
Once again Adele, I am not buying it. I have far too many years working in law enforcement not to be aware of all of the help available. Let us look at abused spouses for instance. From the time the police arrive to the house for the initial call, till the woman and children are safetly in a shelter and receiving free legal/personal advice, including how to apply for 'freebies' like low-income housing/food stamps/welfare/employment assistance, only a couple of hours have elapsed. That is the facts, I know from professional experience.
quote: An horrific proportion of the homeless are people with mental health issues who have been severely let down by a society that should protect them.
This is the one statement you make that is valid, the majority of the people 'living out of shopping carts' are folks who should have been, and at one time were, institutionalized. It was the 'feel-good' liberal policy of treating them as out-patients, which brought them to their situation. Starting about twenty years ago here, the people on the 'left' believed that the poor 'victims' of mental institutions should not be denied their civil rights to free movement. The same people believed that the former patients could be trusted to take, with regularity, the medications being administered to them under the supervision of medical personel. Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a man or woman who cannot handle performing simple hygine functions, will not voluntarily follow any 'out-patient' treatment.
quote: It is very easy to dismiss the homeless as lazy, unwilling to work or junkies who lost everything due to their habit.
With the exception of the mentally ill, or those who are too proud to use social services, your above description is fairly accurate.
Your Most Humble Servant,
I was not referring to a Dickensian scenario...and it would have taken a lot longer than paperwork time to get low income housing - I know this for a fact. Like I mentioned, my son and I would have been put in bed and breakfast accomodation (not pleasant) until my name reached the top of a very long list. That is still homeless. The comment I made about 'being out on the streets before housing would do anything' was the phrase used by the Housing Department, not my own.
I am not sure what part of the abuse victims situation you are not buying, but I know a great proportion of the hom |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 7:14:44 PM
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quote: Like I mentioned, my son and I would have been put in bed and breakfast accomodation (not pleasant) until my name reached the top of a very long list. That is still homeless.
As unpleasant and inconvienant temporary lodging is, it is still not the definition of 'homeless'.
quote: I am not sure what part of the abuse victims situation you are not buying, but I know a great proportion of the homeless in my city are runaway children and youths. It is all very well to say that help is out there, yes it is, but you forget that these are sometimes severely damaged individuals we are speaking of.
That would be 'all of the above'. The juvenille runaways you speak of are usually put into foster care, once discovered. It is not that they 'fall through the cracks' but more correctly, they 'hide within them'. As to the ones who are 'severely damaged', they would require involuntary psychiatric care, and said care is usually delivered once the cops or other authorized persons on the scene believe that the person is a threat to himself and/or others.
quote: ...and yet, your 'will work for food' comment doesn't really take into them into account.
That comment is directed at those who are not mentally disabled, please allow me to relate a personal experience. In the Boro of Homestead, early 1997, I was assigned to a crime suppression unit assisting the local cops. In addition to serving high-risk warrants, and scouring the streets of drug activity, we also conducted routine patrols.
During one of these patrols, I was clearing some vagrants, (cough) pardon me I mean 'homeless', from under the Homestead High-Level Bridge. I noticed one of the panhandlers, oops, there I go again I mean 'occupationally challenged urban citizen' had a sign which read, "Will Work For Food". Well, being a good Republican who believes every person has the right to compete in the workplace, I offered said person a chance at employment with a local business owner, who is a member of my Masonic Lodge (When we are not busy planning world domination, us masons like to help our brother man better themselves). This stalwart of individual choice and destiny then told me of all these 'ailments' he had precluding him from physical work. He then told me that he would rather have some money, so that he could buy dinner. I did better than that, I offered to give him a meal voucher to any resturant in the town. He again refused, claiming that he had strict dietary requirements, the smell of recently regurgetated wine eminating from his nose/mouth area told me exactly what those 'requirements' are. Realizing that he was not going to get his next 'fix' from me, he told me "F*** Off", and left the area, sign in hand.
Now this is only one story, but I have done this many times over the years and I always get the same results.
quote: However, once we lose our compassion, our humanity, our understanding...what happens to us?
I agree, but the system for such compassion and humanity is already in place. If you read my original post, you would have seen that I was debunking the myth of mass starvation and homelesness here in the U.S. There are very many avenues of help availab |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Chris
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 9:02:21 PM
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All politics aside, the accomplishment and the photos are awesome.
And, Sarge, residing in a motel (or something similar) "due to the inability to find housing for financial reasons" is the definition of homeless (or "in transition," as we call it) in our school district. Chris |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 27 2004 : 10:29:07 PM
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quote: And, Sarge, residing in a motel (or something similar) "due to the inability to find housing for financial reasons" is the definition of homeless (or "in transition," as we call it) in our school district. Chris
That may be, in your school district, but I base mine on the legal definition of 'homeless', based on PA. Consolodated Statutes, Title 42 Judiciary Code. That being a person without fixed address, even temporary (or 'in transition', as you say), or domicile.
In a nutshell, a woman and two kids temporarily billeted in a shelter or hotel awaiting permanent quarters are not homeless. The junkie sleeping in a cardboard box, under a freeway overpass is.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
    


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Posted - January 28 2004 : 12:34:49 AM
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Hokie-smoke! This thread's taken an interesting direction. At any rate, back to space. Our pals "the bots" have sent back a couple more hot ones.
Image Insert:
 25.87 KB Here we have the first rock outcropping photographed on another planet.
Image Insert:
 66.33 KB Finally we have a photo that labels three hills named after some pretty amazing pioneers of space exploration. Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee were the crew selected for the Apollo 1 mission, the first real "Moon" mission. Gus was one of the original Mercury 7, he was the 2nd American, and 3rd human in space. Ed White was the first American to do an EVA(Extra-Vehicular Activity). He de-pressurized his Gemini capsule and used a small canister of gas to propel himself around the outside of the craft on a tether. Roger Chaffey was the new guy, a promising young astronaut hand picked by Deke Sleyton, another of the Mercury 7. During a routine "plugs-in" test (a test in which the men are sealed in the pressurized capsule in pressure suits) a spark from a frayed wire underneath Gus's feet ignited in the oxygen rich environment of the capsule, the nylon webbing under the seat and the velcro on the walls went up, fire spread, within 15 seconds the men were dead. These three hills were named in their honor yesterday. |
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Adele
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 01:50:20 AM
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Point taken sus!
Thank you for the photos - they truly are awesome. And am very pleased with the choice of names, it is very satisfying to see the names of pioneers in the same field honoured.
Just as an aside, I believe there is still some debate over whether the three astronauts mentioned died within 15 seconds. I think it has been claimed (and proved?) that they took a great deal longer than that to die, in the most horrific way. And poor Gus...he will always have the shadow of Liberty Bell 7 hanging over him and clouding his achievements.
Rich...I think we need a In the News Forum!!
HM |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 08:28:12 AM
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Excellent photos, Susquesus. I really like the panoramic shot in color, it gives one the impression of standing on the red planet. You are also right that the thread did take an interesting turn, Adele and I are good for one really fun exchange per month; kind of like my first marriage, but that is another story. At times we are almost like Mohicanland's own 'Hannity & Colmes', where you have Sean Hannity (Conservative & Handsome) and Allan Colmes (Liberal and Not So Handsome), the inverse would be true, for instance you have Adele (Liberal and Lovely) and SgtMunro (Conservative and Not So Lovely).
Okay, so my comedy skills are not up to par today...
Your Most Humble Servant, |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Adele
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 11:19:06 AM
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quote: Originally posted by SgtMunro
Excellent photos, Susquesus. I really like the panoramic shot in color, it gives one the impression of standing on the red planet. You are also right that the thread did take an interesting turn, Adele and I are good for one really fun exchange per month; kind of like my first marriage, but that is another story. At times we are almost like Mohicanland's own 'Hannity & Colmes', where you have Sean Hannity (Conservative & Handsome) and Allan Colmes (Liberal and Not So Handsome), the inverse would be true, for instance you have Adele (Liberal and Lovely) and SgtMunro (Conservative and Not So Lovely).
Okay, so my comedy skills are not up to par today...
Your Most Humble Servant,
I thank you for the compliment - very kind! It does make me laugh though that I am considered liberal, because although I would consider myself liberal in a few ways, some of my views are very VERY conservative! It's a funny old world.....
HM
PS Sarge, a thought suddenly crossed my mind.....can you imagine actually ever being part of a debate where you and I would be in agreement?!! I think that would be interesting...am going to rise to the challenge of finding one!!
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securemann
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 2:28:11 PM
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| I think the both of you would agree that the 1964 British Invasion of the U.S. was the most exciting time ever for anyone that enjoyed rock and roll.Especially those four long haired lads from Liverpool.That was the best time of my life when the Brits came,saw,conquered and rocked our world! You both agree? |
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Christina
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 2:43:56 PM
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I'm really glad to see these astronauts got their name on Martian landmarks. In a small way, it's a fulfillment of some of the space dreams they never got to realize. Christina |
See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge. Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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Scott Bubar
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 3:06:07 PM
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quote: Originally posted by susquesus
Hokie-smoke! This thread's taken an interesting direction. At any rate, back to space. Our pals "the bots" have sent back a couple more hot ones.
Image Insert:
 25.87 KB Here we have the first rock outcropping photographed on another planet. ...
Paving stones.
Must be the the old Imperial Martian Way leading to the Great Face Pyramid. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 4:49:47 PM
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quote: PS Sarge, a thought suddenly crossed my mind.....can you imagine actually ever being part of a debate where you and I would be in agreement?!! I think that would be interesting...am going to rise to the challenge of finding one!!
Actually Adele, you and I are very much like-minded people. Our concepts of right and wrong are in agreement almost all of the time. It is not the outcome or destination, on which we debate at times, it is just the method or path chosen to arrive. I do have to admit, we would be pretty unstoppable as a debate team, and if you add Lainey to our numbers, the world would have to look hard to find a match to our trio.
quote: I think the both of you would agree that the 1964 British Invasion of the U.S. was the most exciting time ever for anyone that enjoyed rock and roll.Especially those four long haired lads from Liverpool.That was the best time of my life when the Brits came,saw,conquered and rocked our world! You both agree?
I most certainly agree. Let us not forget the other British Masters of Rock who arrived during the same time; The Rolling Stones, The Who, etc.
quote: I'm really glad to see these astronauts got their name on Martian landmarks. In a small way, it's a fulfillment of some of the space dreams they never got to realize.
Amen to that, Christina, and not to mention that it was long overdue.
quote: Paving stones.
Must be the the old Imperial Martian Way leading to the Great Face Pyramid.
You never know Scott, for I personally believe that the 'old god of war' has more than a few secrets awaiting our discovery.
Your Most Humble Servant, |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Lainey
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Posted - January 28 2004 : 6:11:36 PM
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quote: Paving stones.
Must be the the old Imperial Martian Way leading to the Great Face Pyramid.
Now, that's a classic Bubarian quip!!!
quote: Actually Adele, you and I are very much like-minded people. Our concepts of right and wrong are in agreement almost all of the time. It is not the outcome or destination, on which we debate at times, it is just the method or path chosen to arrive. I do have to admit, we would be pretty unstoppable as a debate team, and if you add Lainey to our numbers, the world would have to look hard to find a match to our trio.
Here's to coloring outside the lines with big, fat crayons!!!!  |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
    


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Posted - January 28 2004 : 7:21:01 PM
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"Paving stones.
Must be the the old Imperial Martian Way leading to the Great Face Pyramid." -Scott
Sounds like someone might be listening to Art Bell and Whitley Strieber. Personally, I love Art Bell. The other hosts of "Coast to Coast AM" just don't cut it. Alright, I'm off to the Cydonian pyramid complex to check out the Martian sphinx. Over and out. |
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Adele
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Posted - January 29 2004 : 01:54:00 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Lainey
quote: Paving stones.
Must be the the old Imperial Martian Way leading to the Great Face Pyramid.
Now, that's a classic Bubarian quip!!!
quote: Actually Adele, you and I are very much like-minded people. Our concepts of right and wrong are in agreement almost all of the time. It is not the outcome or destination, on which we debate at times, it is just the method or path chosen to arrive. I do have to admit, we would be pretty unstoppable as a debate team, and if you add Lainey to our numbers, the world would have to look hard to find a match to our trio.
Here's to coloring outside the lines with big, fat crayons!!!! 
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SgtMunro
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Posted - January 29 2004 : 2:15:17 PM
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You guys are the best! I can't remember the last time I had this much fun without ending up in the brig. 
quote: Sounds like someone might be listening to Art Bell and Whitley Strieber. Personally, I love Art Bell. The other hosts of "Coast to Coast AM" just don't cut it.
I agree with you Susquesus. As fun as the new 'Coast To Coast AM' still is, it is nothing compared to the old pre-call screener days of the original 'Art Bell Show'. I have enjoyed him since first listening to him during a TDY (How the Air Force refers to a temporary assignment, lasting less than 90 days, usually involves hard work interspaced with wild partying) to Nellis AFB (Nevada) in the 1988. He was the guy who got me interested in the music group 'Cusco', and I have collected their music ever since.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
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Posted - January 29 2004 : 11:47:06 PM
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"He was the guy who got me interested in the music group 'Cusco', and I have collected their music ever since."
-Sgt. Munro
Same here Sarge. He has/had some excellent bumper music. I bought "Cusco's" "Apurimac III" after hearing some of it on Mr. Bell's show. In addition it was Coast to Coast that turned me onto "The Moody Blues,", "Ride My Seesaw". Before that all I really knew was "Knights in White Satin." As you seem to have multiple "Cusco" albums, can you recommend a good one to buy after having purchased "Apurimac III"? I started to listen to Art Bell around '97-'98 while in art school when I was staying up far too late getting loaded all the time. I always look forward to the "Sasquatch" themed shows. As much camping as I do in the National forests in northern MN I half expect to see one walk out from behind a tree once in a while. Art has a strange credibility amongst the fringe community that allows him to attract some pretty impressive guests. Hopefully he'll return to the weeknight schedule again someday, if not I'll be happy with whatever time he can spare. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
    
  

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Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 23 2002
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Posted - January 30 2004 : 01:40:55 AM
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Susquesus, May I suggest, as a good follow-on album, is Cusco's "Inner Journeys - Myths & Legends". I find the 'Eros And Psyche' track to be very relaxing, and if I might say, somewhat mystical. Speaking of mystical, another of their works, which I highly enjoy is the "Mystic Island" album. Generally speaking, you can't go wrong with the majority of Cusco's CD's.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
    


USA

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Posted - February 06 2004 : 01:39:13 AM
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Our second rover is on the move.
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