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Dances with Beagles
Colonial Settler
  
USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 19 2002
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Posted - December 26 2003 : 8:15:44 PM
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Poll Question:
In light of the recent case of Mad Cow disease found in the US, will you give up, or continue eating beef?
(Note: I tried to edit the apostrophes in the poll answers, but the system keeps doubling them on me! They should be single apostrophes!)
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
    


USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 03 2003
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Posted - December 26 2003 : 9:17:22 PM
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BEEF.....beef, beef, beef. How many ways do I love thee? Hamburgers, chili, meatloaf, lasagna, pasta sauce, goulash, swedish meatballs, salisbury steak, briscuit, ribs, corned beef. Second only to Bacon. Having grown up on a dairy farm I cannot help but be addicted to beef and dairy products in all forms. There is no way I'm going to re-arrange my diet for 1 cow. When prices go down I plan on stocking up on beef. I'm definitely taking advantage of this ridiculous scare.
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 27 2003 : 05:54:52 AM
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| The things that cause the "mad cow" in cattle and "chronic wasting disease" in deer and elk and "scabbies" in sheep are called prions. To avoid ingesting prions, do not eat brains, spinal cord, or intestines. Intact large muscles are fine. |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
   

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 17 2002
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Posted - December 27 2003 : 08:32:48 AM
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| It's by no means clear that large muscles are necessarily free of prions. Work done here and in Switzerland suggests this may not be the case. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
    
  

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 23 2002
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Posted - December 27 2003 : 10:30:56 AM
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Its going to take more than one cow and some conjecture to separate me from my Delmonico.
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy. 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote (The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" -Or- "Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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securemann
Deerslayer
    

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: July 08 2002
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Posted - December 27 2003 : 4:29:24 PM
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| I'm a madmann anyway- Throw in some cow and who knows what will happen. |
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Kaylynn44
Mohicanite
    
 

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: July 13 2002
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Posted - December 27 2003 : 4:47:34 PM
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I gave up eating red meat a couple of years ago, and I feel so much better. I do understand that some people have to have their steaks and hamburgers, it's just not for me.
Kay |
~ An Infinite Zephyr~ Some things never end As long as goodness exists Winds shall always soothe
www.cloudsbooks.com
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 28 2003 : 06:01:16 AM
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| Was the Swiss study done with the industry standard practice of halving the carcass? |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
   

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 17 2002
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Posted - December 28 2003 : 09:12:43 AM
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The Swiss study was done on humans. Whether they cut them in half, I don't know.
The study looked at humans who had died who died between 1996 and 2002 who were believed to have had Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.
The prions were found in 100% of the brains, but also in 25% of the muscle samples. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
   
USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: July 31 2003
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Posted - December 28 2003 : 7:42:08 PM
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| * hums the song from the "Southpark" movie * "Blame Canada..." |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier." Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 28 2003 : 8:07:19 PM
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| Thanks, Scott. So the study is of not of use for those who prepare cow, sheep, or deer for consumption then? |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 28 2003 : 8:28:51 PM
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| On a different note a friend from Cornwall was saying the trouble in England started when the processors for animal feeds decided to save money by not cooking the feed to as high a temperature to save fuel. I haven't found any references to what that temperature should be. To destroy the possibility of Lyme disease, cook venison to an internal temperature of 170 degrees Farenheight. |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
   

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 17 2002
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Posted - December 29 2003 : 03:44:12 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Kurt
Thanks, Scott. So the study is of not of use for those who prepare cow, sheep, or deer for consumption then?
The implications of the study are that prions may be found in muscle tissue as well as nerve/lymphatic tissue, as these diseases follow similar patterns.
It also raises the level of concern for surgical interventions, as well as the possibility of a simpler form of testing for the illness. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
   

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 17 2002
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Posted - December 29 2003 : 03:53:48 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Kurt
On a different note a friend from Cornwall was saying the trouble in England started when the processors for animal feeds decided to save money by not cooking the feed to as high a temperature to save fuel. I haven't found any references to what that temperature should be. To destroy the possibility of Lyme disease, cook venison to an internal temperature of 170 degrees Farenheight.
Prions cannot be "killed" by normal cooking or sterilization methods.
There is a way to do it, though:
quote: Important Tool for Fighting Chronic Wasting
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, December 21, 2003
Digester a cost saver in move to eradicate deer disease
By TIM EISELE Special to the Journal Sentinel
Sunday, December 21, 2003
Madison -- The newest tool in the fight against chronic wasting disease is a brand new tissue digester, housed at the Wisconsin Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory.
"The digester is the most proven and safe way of inactivating CWD prions and disposing of tissues that are infected with those prions," said Robert Shull, director of the veterinary laboratory.
Shull said that the digester will also come in handy for future disease surveillance activity. Besides chronic wasting disease, it could be used to destroy tissue from any intentional or accidental introduction of foreign animal diseases in the state.
"The primary use is to get rid of materials that we know or suspect might be infectious," Shull said.
Currently, there are only 30 tissue digesters available, most in North America, but this is the first mobile, large-scale digester in the nation. It is built on a trailer that can be trucked to the site of disease outbreaks around the state or the upper Midwest.
Gordon Kaye, chairman of Waste Reduction by Waste Reduction, Inc., the Indianapolis company that built the digester, described it as a giant version of, "your mother's pressure cooker filled with lye."
The digester is a heated-pressurized vessel that breaks down infectious microorganisms and prions into a sterile solution of amino acids, sugars and soaps.
During a test of the digester using dead cows, a small crane hoisted a 1,000-pound cow and lowered it into a large stainless steel tank. The crane put two more cows in the tank, and then the huge lid was secured, chemicals and water were added and the boilers started up.
The result was that the cows -- hoofs, hide, bones and all -- were soon reduced to little more than a sterile slurry.
Kaye said that the residue can go into any sewage treatment system. The digester destroys all infective prions, viruses or bacteria, including brucellosis and tuberculosis, he said.
The digester uses heat and caustic chemicals, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, circulated through the 8-foot diameter tank to reduce animal tissues and microorganisms to a thick broth that can be safely transported to the sanitary sewer system. It can hold 4,000 pounds and the process of heating and digesting the materials takes about 6 hours.
"Earlier, it was thought the prion was resistant to most standard disinfecting agents," Kaye said. "But it has been shown over a period of years that a combination of heat and alkali could destroy the infectivity."
Kaye believes this is the "gold standard" method to destroy prions. He hopes to receive approval soon from the European Union to use similar digesters to destroy materials infected with Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (known as Mad Cow Disease).
Laurie Osterndorf, administrator of the Division of Land for the Department of Natural Resources, said that the digester |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 29 2003 : 06:41:43 AM
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Thanks for more detail on the study. Islanders in the south Pacific get a disease like C-J where the cause is thought to be cannibalism which would go along with the Swiss study. Let's hope someone funds a similar study on CWD deer or BSE cattle.
On the news of the digestor: Trust the adopted home of lutefisk to come up with a practical use for it! |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 30 2003 : 08:46:33 AM
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| Sorry for misspelling of sheep disease "scrapie" |
Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
    
 

USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: September 27 2003
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Posted - December 31 2003 : 11:02:46 AM
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Here's something hopeful:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. scientist said on Tuesday a simple treatment combining high pressure with heat could neutralize the proteins that cause mad cow disease, but federal officials had shown little interest in it.
Dr. Paul Brown of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke said his process, developed with European researchers, would inactivate the prion proteins that cause bovine spongiform encephalopathy without damaging the meat. Normal cooking does not affect prions.
"For the past two years I have been looking at a method of inactivating prions in meat," Brown, a top expert on BSE and related diseases, said in a telephone interview.
"It uses high pressure and it works, but to this date no one seems interested in using it."
Brown and colleagues at Washington Farms in Tacoma, Washington and the Istituto Superiore di Sanita in Rome published a report in May showing that short, high-temperature pressure bursts could greatly reduce the numbers of prions active in meat.
"The application of commercially practical conditions of temperature and pressure could ensure the safety of processed meats from BSE contamination," they wrote in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Brown and colleagues tested hot dogs, contaminating them with brain tissues from hamsters that had scrapie, a relative of BSE.
They sealed the samples, put them in polyethylene bottles filled with hot castor oil then subjected them to bursts of physical pressure in a pressure chamber.
The pressure bursts, ranging from 100,000 pounds per square inch to 174,000 PSI (690 MPa to 1,200 MPa), inactivated many of the prions, Brown's team said. They said the process would also destroy a range of bacteria, fungi and viruses.
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Yr. obt. svt. Kurt |
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Christina
Deerslayer
    

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 27 2002
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Posted - January 05 2004 : 7:16:33 PM
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This latest bit of media-frenzied food hysteria has led me to do exactly what I usually do -- head right out and get me some of whatever I'm told is bad for me... New York strip and baked potater, please, and make it quick. As soon as I read the first latest bit of "mad cow" hysteria, that Aaron Copland song used as the theme by the national beef board in those TV commercials started running through my head... Christina |
See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge. Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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LittleOne
Pathfinder


Canada

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: April 23 2004
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Posted - April 23 2004 : 10:01:36 PM
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hmmm Well i have to say at the beginning I was a little freaked out but now I'm back to my beef-eating self, I don't think i could live without it! I'm glad the disease really hasn't spread much..everyones worried about the 'chicken flu' thing now... I hope that doesn't get out of hand..its putting alot of people out of buisness..and affecting chicken farmers lives pretty badly! :) |
~Sincerely yours, the littleOne "Tetanktitit" |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
   

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 17 2002
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Posted - April 24 2004 : 10:04:28 AM
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quote: Originally posted by LittleOne
... I'm glad the disease really hasn't spread much ...
We wouldn't know if it has.
The government has really done very little to get an accurate picture or develop adequate testing. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Dark Woods
Colonial Settler
  

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]: May 18 2002
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Posted - June 05 2004 : 4:28:35 PM
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Science, unfortunately, is not being fully applied to the Mad Cow situation. It could well be that the high pressure and digestor methods discussed for destroying prions would be effective. Given that not everyone would have a 100,000 psi unit in his/her kitchen any time soon, the cost effective way of addressing the issue might be to apply the process to cattle feed.
Without any immediately obvious political payoff from applying science to the situation, I doubt that the politicians will have much interest. |
We become what we think about. |
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