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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - September 07 2003 : 2:26:03 PM
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To ammend what I was saying about Killdeer rifle profile. I've just compared the ML Supply Bucks county precarved with my pattern of Killdeer. IF the nose of the comb was rounded down into the wrist a tad, that would be close. The butt of the comb would have to also be rounded downward toward the toe also, to have the correct profile.
I'm not aware of anybody making a TRUE Northampton County/Allentown precarved stock, but that would likely be pretty close.
At any rate, if either of you guys is determined to make one of these rifles for yourself, I will trace out and supply you with a carstock stock outline from the one Wayne gave me....assuming you didnt go the precarved route.
Still got that problem of getting a 48" killdeer barrel outta Getz though...........
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 07 2003 : 6:52:08 PM
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| Bill- thanks again for the extensive info. I'm going to hunt for the two recommended books and will definitely consider your recommendations for stock patterns, parts, barrels, and locks. I'm not hell bent on making the Mann rifle. Would like to find a design that jumps up and grabs me though. Any idea's where one can find a book with nice photo's of actual period pieces? I just want a variety of options to look at. I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna do until I get more info. After re-reading the section of Deerslayer where Hawkeye receives Killdeer from Judith Hutter it strikes me that the description is pretty vague. All we know is that it was produced previous to 1745 and was of superior craftsmanship. Any more help greatly appreciated. |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 07 2003 : 9:52:14 PM
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| Bill-sorry for all these questions, I've been doing a little looking and I'm finding that both the Dixon book and the Buchelle/Shumway/Alexander book are in the $30-$50 neighborhood. For budget reasons I'm going to start with only one of them. Which would you recommend? This is my first project so I probably need the equivalent of a "Longrifles for Dummies". Let me know what you think or if you have any good places to check for either of the books. Thanks again--Matt |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 07 2003 : 10:26:52 PM
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| email me at palongrifles@charter.net and I will help you as much as you need. I had no idea they were 50 bucks now. for softcover? holy cow. let me do some checking for you. and email me. we can continue in that medium. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 07 2003 : 10:27:07 PM
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If you want a nice step by step illustrated book that doesn't cost and arm and a leg check out:
The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Rifle THE book for beginners, students, and experienced builders. This book has 190 pages with over 450 illustrations. Guides you through all of the building steps ITEM #DESCRIPTION PRICE 9-02494 Building the Pennsylvania Rifle $19.95
I found this online at http://www.jedediah-starr.com/ you can put the item number(9-02494) into the quick order box and it will show up in your cart.... |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 09 2003 : 12:28:10 AM
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quote:
if either of you guys is determined to make one of these rifles for yourself
Actually, I don't really like the Killdeer that well. The rifle I want to build is an early Lancaster. Wide butt, not a lot of brass, some carving, and a nice swamped barrel. Only thing is, a Lancaster is a little too late for my period. And I want a large, round faced lock. Those shoot so much better. Maybe some day I will do like Mann and build my own creation. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 09 2003 : 12:36:22 AM
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| Fitz, have you looked around for some earlier styles close to what you like?? I can steer you to some sweet sites if you need something to look at..Are you going to the Gathering at Martin's? |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 09 2003 : 11:35:52 PM
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| I plan to get to Martin's Station on Thursday. I've been waiting on this one for a while! |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 10 2003 : 07:08:42 AM
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| Fitz, please take pics if you can and send them our way. I would truly love to go there someday. |
Theresa |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 10 2003 : 10:50:40 AM
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Don't blame you much for not liking the killdeer. Other than having the rifle that was in LOTM, there isnt much to say for it. I don't much care for it either. Lotta folks would not know it isnt correct, though. Until they encounter other folks who know the history and styles of rifles of various periods. Then they get disappointed.
As far as early rifles go, Lancaster WAS one of the earliest centers of longrifle production, being so close to Philadelphia which was at the time perhaps the major financial, cultural, and commercial city of the time - as New York might be considered today. A lot of early smiths come from that region. Plus, Philadelphia and Lancaster area were chock full of Germanic citizens. It's very hard to find rifles that have been documented TO the early period of 1750-1760, but by 1770 period there are quite a few documented as still existing today from that period. The best that can be done is to document a known maker as working during that F&I period, and make the assumption that he was making rifles during our period of interest. What they looked like, we can only make an engineering guess based on the few rifles that exist from that time. Heavily Germanic in look, very close to German hunting rifles with shorter barrels and larger bores than later rifles, more massive stocks and barrels, locks more germanic or hand forged than english or imported. What we call the transitional rifle. Most folks during the period probably would have carried the smooth bored muskets, trade guns, fusils, fowlers etc. Multi-purpose and cheaper and more plentiful, I'd imagine. |
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 10 2003 : 11:22:25 PM
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quote:
Fitz, please take pics if you can and send them our way. I would truly love to go there someday.
Well, the problem is that it's not really good to walk around with a digital camera in period clothes in a period setting. So I will leave that to others. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2003 : 03:02:37 AM
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Martin's Station....
I can post you two good websites with pics of the building of the station and of the first raid. there before the forted station was built...there are also some on my website..
http://ns.utk.edu/~patw/martins_station/
http://www.mounet.com/~wildrd/images.html
http://community.webshots.com/user/hawkeyeii1 |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - September 11 2003 : 07:19:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
quote:
Fitz, please take pics if you can and send them our way. I would truly love to go there someday.
Well, the problem is that it's not really good to walk around with a digital camera in period clothes in a period setting. So I will leave that to others.
Understand, Fitz. Thanks, Hawkeye Joe for the websites. You guys have a great time! |
Theresa |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - September 18 2003 : 7:18:56 PM
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| Bill-just picked up "Kentucky Rifles&Pistols: 1750-1850", great recommendation! Anyone looking for an extensive pictorial guide to longrifles should hunt this one down. It's filled with hundreds of black and white photos. It really hits home that these guys were ARTISTS. Each piece is unique, every conceivable patchbox, carving, stock profile, trigger configuration you could want to find is here. If you're looking for written history, this is not the book for you, it does tell you the maker, the location, and the approximate period of construction of each piece, but it is definitely a visual guide. I went to "Track of the Wolf" in Elk River, there were about 30 completed rifles hanging on the wall, but other than that there was very little to see. Almost all of the stock was kept in a warehouse-like storage area. I guess I had hoped to find more of a "showroom" type setting. At any rate, the catalog is more impressive than the storefront. I'm excited to see the "Muzzleloader Builder Supply" catalog when it's ready to roll out, if you hear about it's completion please pass it along. |
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Killdeer rifle - Fitz and Susquesas
