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richfed
Sachem

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002

Status: offline

Administrator

Posted - May 09 2003 : 06:04:14 AM

I've never been to the Pittsburgh area, but on my next trip north I hope to allow time to take in some of the historical sites related to Braddock's Defeat ... [I've been to its precursors, Jumonville Glen & Fort Necessity - outstanding!].

So, my request is for one or more of you Pittsburgh-area Natives to give me [and others!] a rundown on places not to miss, as well as what to expect. I know, I know ... the actual battlefield is developed, etc., etc. But, even if there's just a roadside sign, I want to go wherever I can go ...

So ... a Braddock's Defeat tour? Where would you go?

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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King

USA

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September 23 2002

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Donating Member

Posted - May 09 2003 : 08:34:39 AM

Rich,
The one place you have to go to is "The Braddock Room" at the Braddock branch of the Carnegie Library, right in the heart of the town. The curator, Bruce Egli (You've seen him on 'When the Forrest Ran Red') is a friend of mine. If you would ever decide to come up, I could call Bruce and he could give you the whole walkthough of the battle area and detailed tour of other not-so-public areas and artifacts. Kennywood Amusement Park is across the Mon River in Duquesne, and there is a monument to George Washington, within the park near the area where both he and General Braddock's Army crossed the river. Bruce grew up there and is an expert on the engagement of 9 July 1755. All I would need would be a little time to have Bruce check/adjust his calender. Also, Private Ian mohr (Big Ian) MacIntyre, a soldier in my company resides on Second Street in Braddock, and is very well versed in the histroic aspects of the area. From there you are only a fifteen minute drive to the Ft. Pitt Museum, since both Highlander and I sit on the Museum Associates Board of Directors, we could give you a detailed tour of that site. Now, Ft. Pitt does not have much to offer in scenery/displays, but in the museum is some of the best models of Ft. Prince George, Ft. Duquesne and Ft. Pitt (All done by Charles Stotz) that you will ever see. Near the museum, is the Allegheny County Courthouse, where Highlander and I take alot of our 'clients', and there is a wall painting of 'Grant's Defeat in the entrance hall and a DAR plaque on the Grant Street side of the courthouse. Heading east on Frankstown Ave, part of the Forbes Military Road, there is a bronzed tree stump and another plaque to Capt. Bullit of the Virginia Regiment. Continuing east on Frankstown (which I would advise to do only during daytime) you will eventually end up near Boyce Park, where the 'Washington Redoubt' was located. This was the last overnight camp of General Forbes before entering the defiles of Turttle Creek and ending his march at the smouldering remains of Ft. Duquesne.
From the Pittsburgh area, you are less than an hour from Bushy Run Battlefield, where Highlander and/or I could also give a detailed account of that famous 1763 engagement. Once again, since it is a state site, it does not have much to offer, but there is a nice monument near where the Flour Bag Fort was alledgedly located (Errected with private donations, of course).
Let me know if/when you plan on your trip to the 'burgh, and how I can help.

Your Most Humble Servant,

Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)

"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally."

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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002

Status: offline

Posted - May 09 2003 : 08:46:42 AM

Duncan, me lad!

I would like to see pictures of Stotz's work, if that is possible. The more detail the better. I, too, have a fort model....Ft. Augusta......made about the same time, I believe. I am wondering if he might have made it, too. You may have seen it on our webpage:

www.reenacting.net/augustaregt

I don't think I will have time to see them when I come for the premier, but that is not out of the realm of possibilities. I will be at Raystown earlier that day assisting with school groups. BUT....that could be a 'short' day, if I choose.

Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'

~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle

Seamus

~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~

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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King

USA

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September 23 2002

Status: offline

Donating Member

Posted - May 09 2003 : 3:39:33 PM

My Cousin Seamus, I will forward you some detailed pictures of the forts. In reference to your own model, I have seen your pictures of your own Ft. Augusta, and it could possibly be one of Stotz's private commisions. The attention to detail and scale appear as his, or possibly one of his understudy's. How much research have you done on the history of the model?

Your Most Dear Cousin,

Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)

"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally."

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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002

Status: offline

Donating Member

Posted - May 09 2003 : 3:43:42 PM

Rich,
One more thing has come to mind. If you do come to Pennsylvania, you might also want to do a tour of the Forbes Military Road route. Such a trip would not take much time, and would dovetail nicely to your Braddock Road journey. If you are interested, I could post a copy of the route, complete with modern roads to follow, as well as sights that pertain to the expedition.

Your Most Humble Servant,

Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)

"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally."

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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002

Status: offline

Posted - May 09 2003 : 4:28:28 PM

Duncan,

The Muncy (PA) Historical Society has a model of Fort Muncy in its collection which is identical to my Ft. Augusta in construction detail. It is about the same size (5'x5')and is mounted on a base which topographically matches the bluff upon which it was located. It is also covered with a glass case.

Linda Poulton, the Director of the museum, sent me the following:

I found the reference ... "under the direction of Fred Shoemaker and Florence
K. Cochrane, Superintendent & Supervisor, respectively of the Museum
Extension Project of the Federal WPA of Pittsburgh..... just previous to
starting this model they had finished a similar one of "Fort Pitt" ...This could be your connection ... happy hunting!

This reference is from the proceedings of their Society, the date escapes me at the moment.

It is well-known that such things were WPA projects, however, I have not yet been able to find further reference directly to the forts back then. Are the models you mentioned definitely Stotz models? Do you or Ed G. know anything of the WPA Ft. Pitt model that Linda referenced ?

My model at one time belonged to the Northumberland County (PA) Historical Society. It was sold at a public sale some years ago in Sunbury, PA, which I recall, as a friend of mine was there and told me about it. It was the Public Library sale to clean out "stuff" that accumulated over the years. Anyway, the Society stored it at the library;it was sold (they will NOT admit that happened!!) and ended up after another sale, and eventually a sale/trade deal in the hands of an antique dealer. The auctioneer could not produce records because of a devastating flood a few years back which destroyed all his old records. I found it on eBay and ended up with it.....where it belongs...in the hands of The Augusta Regiment. We represent and emulate the men who built the original Fort Augusta.

My Sjt. Charlton and I loaded it into my truck this morning and tomorrow it will be displayed at the borough of Northumberland's first annual History Day. The town is located on the peninsula formed by the confluence of the North and West Branches of the Susquehanna River where Augusta stood....not dissimilar to Ft. Pitt's location! We will be there in force to discuss the roles of the fort and The Augusta Regiment in the French and Indian War, the Indian trade after the War and subsequent settlement, and the American Revolution.

By the way, you do know that men of The Augusta Regiment had a big hand in building Ft. Pitt and Forbes' and Burd's Roads, don't you?

~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~

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Highlander
Colonial Militia

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003

Status: offline

Posted - May 09 2003 : 6:07:03 PM

Aye'that we do

If you look at the Ft.Ligonier model the next time that you visit Loyalahanna,you will see that Mr.Stotz did tht one as well.

Rich,let us know when you are coming up.We'll show you around

Highlander

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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002

Status: offline

Posted - May 09 2003 : 7:41:20 PM

Hi Ed,
I have seen the Ligonier model. I believe my fort and Ft. Muncy pre-dates it. Charles Stotz worked in the late 1940's, I believe, on the Ft. Pitt project, and was the architect who designed Point Park, wasn't he? The WPA projects were considerably earlier, so I am fairly certain he did not do them. I would like to know what became of the WPA Ft. Pitt referenced in my earlier post. Any ideas? Might it be in Carnegie Museum?

~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~

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richfed
Sachem

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002

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Administrator

Posted - May 09 2003 : 9:13:42 PM

Hey thank you, boys! Very interesting!!! Have no idea when I'll be able to do this, but it's something I've wanted to do for a long while. I'll do it all, though I truly hope to be able to skip the Courthouse part - no offense to you guys!!!

Sgt. Munro - post any & all you wish! It'll be good reference material for me when I prepare for the journey!

Thanks again!

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Highlander
Colonial Militia

USA

Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 04 2003

Status: offline

Posted - May 09 2003 : 10:43:59 PM

Hullo Cousin,I'd like to find that WPA Fort Pitt model.Mr.Stotz designed both Forts Pitt & Ligonier in the late 1960's.It would be interesting to see his work before then.There are two books that were written by Stotz:Point of Empire & Drums in the Forest that I got from the out of print section of Amazon.com that might interest you.See you at the Premiere