| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| di-mc |
Posted - January 13 2009 : 5:56:05 PM
This all has taken me a little while to fully develop the reasons why LOTM resonates with so many of us. Obviously, it's a great story, beautifully brought to life in film with great actors, unsurpassed scenery and wonderful music.
But, it's more, isn't it? At least it is for me. It's about the American spirit, that "can do anything" spirit. We have much to be grateful for; those who came before us and brought forth this nation we call home. But, it's still more, and I'm afraid it may be the realization that we wouldn't be able to do it now. Have we become too soft? I think we have. I think we are so fat and happy that we would not do what those people in the Revolution and those pre-Revolution sacrificed and were able to achieve. Could we hold on to an idea, a goal after a year or two passed and success still far off?
Think of World War II, our parents and grandparents fought in the war and did what was necessary here at home to win for years and the final outcome unknown. It was very possible that we would not be the victors. But they didn't throw in the towel after many battles; they kept up the fight. Could we? I doubt it.
Am I wrong? I don't think so. Today our national resolve is easily swayed by forces that don't know and/or understand what's at stake and nothing seems worth fighting for. What was important last year, isn't holding our attention now.
Is the American spirit of the past truly over? What do you think? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Leah |
Posted - January 30 2009 : 9:12:33 PM
Where are my manners? Thanks everyone for the nice welcome.
I look forward to chatting with you all.
Leah |
| Kay |
Posted - January 29 2009 : 4:19:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Leah
Hello everyone! I'm new, although I have been a lurker for over a year.
I am not sure if you all have a place for newbies to post, so here goes.
I am still getting settled and have a question about uploading my own avatar picture.
Do you all have an area on this forum to explain that? I'm not techno-savvy, so struggle with this. It asked for my avatar name-not sure what that was and when I typed in my URL address and clicked preview, I got a blank box.
Help and look forward to contributing and reading all these interesting viewpoints.
Leah
Welcome Leah! I'm new too (since the beginning of the month!) Have already made great friends! And I'm still figuring out avatar and pics too!
Kay |
| James N. |
Posted - January 29 2009 : 12:46:38 PM
Obediah,
I would actually agree with your statement, although I would also point out that your personal experience regards a JC coach/teacher, NOT high school. I think that makes a BIG difference. ( The dumbest ones seem to settle to the lower levels, like the "bottom feeders" they tend to be. ) As you note, "He loved history and it showed."; unfortunately all most of them LOVE is FOOBAW! That's why I said whenever I tell this tale in public I always get knowing nods of recognition, often followed with agreement that all they remember from history class was "coach" talking about the "Big Game". I can only think of a SINGLE acquaintance ( not a friend, really ) I've made in all my years reenacting and collecting who I knew to be a P.E. teacher/coach I thought had any sense at all - he was a collector/dealer in militaria, very knowledgeable about WWII badges and patches; and, I THINK, about the history that goes with them as well.
Personally I'm soured from my own experience, having been LIED to throughout my college career in the local Teacher Education "diploma mill" North Texas St. Univ. ( NTSU - corrupted to NUTS! ) I was fed the lie "We NEED Teachers!" until my graduation in 1970; when of course suddenly we didn't need teachers anymore! I've already mentioned looking for a position and being told "Yes, we have an opening - history and COACHING!"; as though the two were inseperable. One district I later applied to really wanted me to teach - ART! ( Which I of course have NO background for or interest in teaching! )
In the School of Education in most colleges there's the saying, "Those who CAN'T, teach." ( The rest of it goes: "And those who can't teach, teach teachers." as a dig to the "usefulness" of most courses in "education". ) I think this is nowhere truer than in "athletics" where all the former "foobaw heroes" settle to relive or continue their own Glory Days. My point in all this is that as long as our public school history classes are in the thrall of a bunch of knuckleheads who only hold their positions as a means to the end of being associated with FOOBAW and other "sports", we are certainly NOT going to inculcate in any students love or appreciation for the past struggles and sacrifices of our ancestors, be they Colonial, Revolutionary, Confederate or otherwise!
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - January 29 2009 : 12:28:47 PM
quote:
Leah asked: Getting back to the question at hand: "Is the American spirit of the past truly over?" I hope not, but I do wonder what America will look like at the end of the next four years.
Maybe not 'over', but certainly 'on-hold' for the time being.
quote:
Leah then said: Self reliance, independence and hard work are all things I think of when I think of what it means to be an American.
You are right on-target with your beliefs, however the political party currently in charge is diametrically opposed to all three.
quote:
Leah also asked: I was starting to wonder what has happened to our ideals?
I might be able to help you by sharing some of my own theories; just poke around the 'In The News' and 'Lions Den' portions of this board where my thoughts on subjects like this are found.
quote:
Leah finished with: I only hope that we can re-capture those ideals during the next four years.
Leah, if there is any chance of us recapturing the true American Spirit, it will be after the next four years...
quote:
Obediah said: James, not all coaches are lousy history instructors.
Obi, you are 100% correct. My high school football coach was also one of the calc/trig teachers. I know that this falls off of the 'history teacher' comparison, but it is in the same arena. Not only was he a fantastic coach (national Quad-A Champs in 1987, and several statewide Quad-A championships to his credit), but unlike a great many of his contempories, he was a true master of his discipline. He was no 'cookie-cutter' Education Major product of the 1960's, but he actually held a masters in mathematics. Higher mathematics was his forte, but football was his passion.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
| Obediah |
Posted - January 29 2009 : 12:28:17 AM
James, not all coaches are lousy history instructors. Here's my experience.
In my 1st semester at college (the local JC), my US History instructor was also a counselor. He was without a doubt the worst teacher of any subject I ever had as an undergrad! First semester US history is supposed to go through 1865; all he lectured about that whole semester was European philosophers! "And mightily bored we were!"
Fortunately, my 2nd semester US History instructor was an assistant FB coach, who was one of the two best instructors I had as an undergrad! He loved history and it showed. His lectures were always interesting and informative. He just passed away a couple of years ago but his daughter (who is my age) still has all his old lecture notes (in several boxes). |
| Leah |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 10:28:10 PM
Yes, James, I did had several high school coaches teaching history. My favorite memory was one who taught World War II from a World Book encyclopedia! Now, my kids (18 and 13) are also going through the same experience, but I do think their teachers are more exerienced. I am enjoying 'learning' it all over again and the recent election had allowed me to discuss issues with them, especially my 18 year old, who loves to play devil's advocate. I do feel that history is more meaningful to me and I appreciate it more, now that I am older. But, again, I am very much a newbie at history.
Getting back to the question at hand: "Is the American spirit of the past truly over?" I hope not, but I do wonder what America will look like at the end of the next four years. Self reliance, independence and hard work are all things I think of when I think of what it means to be an American. Being on this other forum (19th Century Lit.) with many people from the U.K. and elsewhere, along with others with a different political persuasion from mine, was very eye-opening. I was starting to wonder what has happened to our ideals? European countries are more dependent on their government and I sense a huge movement in this country toward that same philosophy and it just makes me sad.
And may I add that of course, LOTM was the impetus for my interest in the 'pioneer spirit'. I only hope that we can re-capture those ideals during the next four years. |
| James N. |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 7:45:37 PM
Welcome Leah,
In line with the theme of my rant throughout this particular thread, I'll venture to guess your high school science teacher knew at least something about science - and for history you naturally had a COACH! |
| di-mc |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 6:11:13 PM
Leah,
Welcome! Isn't it wonderful to find this site? I just came on board back in the fall and I'm hooked. Glad you're here.
|
| Leah |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 5:32:30 PM
It's good to finally be here. I love this topic. I have been looking for a place with like-minded people who share this very same concern.
I have been a member of a 19th century literature forum for over 6 months and, let's just say, I was a bit isolated in my viewpoints on where I think the country is headed. I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts on various topics and think I will like it here.
I am rather new in the study of history. (Science major here, and history was always so boring to me in school-must be the mid-life crisis because I am fascinated now with how our country came to be, and what it took to make us great.) I will "watch and learn" a bit before jumping in.
Leah |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 12:19:06 PM
Welcome, Leah!
If you would like to go to this forum: The New Deal and poke around in some of the threads that are posted near the top under the heading of "Messages From The Crown", you may find some help.
As for uploading your own avatar picture, I believe that Rich will need to help you with that. I think that you may need to email it to him privately, but I am not sure. But, just...."stay alive! He will find you!"  Seriously, when he reads this, he will contact you, I am sure.
To get a feel for the different forums, go to the main page of the Forums, here: The Mohican Board Forums and just scroll down that page and read the titles of the forums and the information about each one. Soon, you will understand where you should be posting for different subject matter. Generally, for talking about personal things, or introducing ourselves, we go into the "Bunkhouse Banter" Forum in the Mohicanland Community area. Rich will probably move your post, and mine, over to that area.
Don't worry. You'll get the hang of it! So, Welcome to Mohicanland!
|
| Leah |
Posted - January 28 2009 : 10:21:01 AM
Hello everyone! I'm new, although I have been a lurker for over a year.
I am not sure if you all have a place for newbies to post, so here goes.
I am still getting settled and have a question about uploading my own avatar picture.
Do you all have an area on this forum to explain that? I'm not techno-savvy, so struggle with this. It asked for my avatar name-not sure what that was and when I typed in my URL address and clicked preview, I got a blank box.
Help and look forward to contributing and reading all these interesting viewpoints.
Leah |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 6:11:37 PM
di-mc, - back in the 70's the U.S. forced school busing in Boston. With no exaggeration, it literally tore the city apart. Boston offered to guarantee that any student could attend ANY school they wanted to, - not good enough for Uncle Sam. That approach wouldn't give them the percentage of this and that in every school. It was all about getting the numbers right, - the negative effect on education and lives meant nothing. It got so bad the Boston Police couldn't handle it, - and the Mass. National Guard was called out. The police had to actually be stationed in classrooms, not just the school. ... The result, - as many folks as possible moved out of Boston, or sent their kids to private schools. ... Boston was used as an trial approach for a similar plan planned for Los Angles. The Los Angles plan was scrapped, ... |
| blackfootblood |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 6:06:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
Secondly, Yankees talk funny!
LOL, maybe that's how she could tell. I didn't use my "proper english" with her! |
| Obediah |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 5:56:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by blackfootblood
.....Then she started to brag about how rich she was and how her kids were going to Harvard and making way more money than I would ever see in my entire life...... But she was the first of many to stop me and ask me if I was from the North, it's crazy how people know. Do I have Yankee tattooed in my forehead or something? 
Firstly, "Hahvuhd" ain't exactly a Southern school, is it?
Secondly, Yankees talk funny! |
| di-mc |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 4:17:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by James N.
[ NEVER did I try in Dallas itself. Why, you ask, since SURELY I
As for teaching "to the test"; of course NONE of that existed ( or needed to ) until after the integration of the '60's and '70's caused schools to begin lowering standards for graduation so as to not "discriminate" against THEM. I've seen it ALL during my professional lifetime, and am only TOO glad to have missed most of it!
James,
Here in NC, the school systems bus kids from one end of a county to the other to ensure that racial and socio-economic balance exists in the schools. Obviously, buses and gas are not inexpensive out-lays. Even in this economy, no one is suggesting that the busing stop. This has been going on for decades and I don't think any benefit has been established. Everyone who can afford it sends their kids to private schools or home schools. No one has the courage to say ENOUGH!! |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 4:02:49 PM
Sounds a LOT like Mainers, - no "flat lander" will EVER be a Mainer, - just ain't gonna happen. |
| Fitzhugh Williams |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 2:47:18 PM
I can only trace my ancestry in SC back to the F&I, and my wife can only go back to 1764. To be really southern, you need to have been at Charleston when it was settled in 1670. My daughter lives in Charleston and is getting married this summer to a boy who also lives in Charleston. If they have children, they will be born in Charleston and that will help some. |
| blackfootblood |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 12:16:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Longrifle
Yes, southerners today can still be hyper-sensitive about the honor of their ancestors. And they're not about to get over it until modern history vindicates their ancestors as having been essentially honorable men - on the same level as the heroes of the Revolution - and today's northerners are a little more humble in their ancestor's victory.
You're comment reminds me of something that happened to me shortly after moving to the South. I had just gotten married and moved to Virginia with my husband. Born and raise in Pennsylvania, I have an ancestry tree rooted there since the 1700's. Anyhow, after I finished nursing school, I started working at a family practice. One day an elderly woman came in and was there to talk to the doctor. Anyhow, I was getting her ready for the doc and I had engaged small talk with her until I was finished with everything. She stopped me mid sentence and grabbed my hand and said, "You aren't from the South are you?" I was caught off guard, kinda giggling because I thought that was a weird question to pull out of thin air. So I answered, "no I wasn't". The nice, little, elderly lady took a 180 from being super nice to absolutely rude. She even called me a Yankee. She had a real deep southern accent and she almost sounded like Ms. Scarlet O'Hara. Then she started to brag about how rich she was and how her kids were going to Harvard and making way more money than I would ever see in my entire life. So that's where I politely took my leave and walked out. But she was the first of many to stop me and ask me if I was from the North, it's crazy how people know. Do I have Yankee tattooed in my forehead or something? |
| Bookworm |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 04:36:22 AM
That was a very thoughtful and gracious post, Longrifle, and I thank you for it. I'm a big admirer of Senator Webb, and his point is well taken.
Why yes, GG, you have mentioned that, and you're not alone! |
| Gadget Girl |
Posted - January 27 2009 : 02:02:25 AM
Did I ever mention that I LOVE Jack??? Isn't that what this topic was about???
The Gadgetmeister!!! |
| Longrifle |
Posted - January 26 2009 : 11:49:38 PM
Bookworm,
I offer this as an explaination, not as a slam or discourtesy to you:
"The southern soldier fought because he was provoked, intimidated, and ultimately invaded. His leaders convinced him that this was a war of independence in the same sense as the Revolutionary War." - Senator James Webb
I'd like to point out that it doesn't matter if a good argument can be made today that this was not true. What matters is that the average non-slave owning southern soldier believed that it was true at the time.
The result? A well supplied Union Army that fielded three million men took four years to defeat a poorly supplied Confederate Army that fielded one million men. And the decendents of Union soldiers today have the audacity to jokingly say things like "Kicked your ass, get over it" to the decendents of Confederate Soldiers who usually sarcastically think something like "Wow, what warriors."
Yes, southerners today can still be hyper-sensitive about the honor of their ancestors. And they're not about to get over it until modern history vindicates their ancestors as having been essentially honorable men - on the same level as the heroes of the Revolution - and today's northerners are a little more humble in their ancestor's victory.
Now, don't get me started on reconstruction!
|
| James N. |
Posted - January 25 2009 : 2:38:10 PM
Diane,
Since for some strange reason neither even the Inca nor Aztecs had managed to invent the wheel, and all tribes were effectively in the Bronze Age metallurgically speaking, it's doubtful they would've advanced very much further than they already had. Lacking metal tools, manufacture was limited to handiwork of various kinds, so no industry as we know it was possible. South American llamas were the largest and most powerful beasts of burden in the Americas and so there would've been NO personal transport: horses, oxen, wagons, etc., severely limiting commerce. Desire for all these commodities caused their downfall as they actively sought trading partners among the new European arrivals, thereby exposing themselves to all sorts of contagions in the process. I think your idea would've just postponed the inevetable.
Bookworm,
It may not be who YOU are now; but I saw no reason to dishonor their spirit by voting Democratic this time. ( I have in the past, before that party abandoned its former strongest supporters here in the South. ) Yes, they did lose; did that automatically make them wrong? Since you're taking the moral high ground of the Northern Abolitionists vs. the racist Southerners, and seem to equate Might with Right, I'd like to remind you that the bulk of the Union army, including both Grant and Sherman, were opposed to emancipation and eqality of races, fighting for preservation of the Union, NOT emancipation. Also, during the 1920's one of the strongest states in membership of the Ku Klux Klan was that Old South Bastion - Indiana! |
| di-mc |
Posted - January 24 2009 : 8:52:50 PM
I've been wondering about this and I know that I'll get some interesting responses on this topic.
What if, for some unknown reason, the Europeans didn't make it to this continent until the early 1900's, even though they had advanced to the level they actually were in the beginning of the century. What would they have found when they arrived here in 1900?? Would the native people have advanced or would they be as they were when the original European's made their discovery? What do you think? |
| Bookworm |
Posted - January 24 2009 : 8:16:19 PM
Your Confederate ancestors LOST! That's not who we are now. |
| James N. |
Posted - January 24 2009 : 7:53:30 PM
I agree with Russel Means in this case; but of course I was using the term to describe persons born in this COUNTRY - which the millions of illegal Mexican nationals now infesting it are most certainly NOT! And according to figures I've seen, if the trend continues unabated as it has for the past 2 decades Wilderness Woman's prognostication is WAY off, by at least 150 years too long. And Bookworm's so-called "antidote" sounds much more like the nightmare forcast by my Confederate ancestors. This has indeed been the "dream" of Liberals in this country for far too long; the current Obamanation is the fruit of that misguided attitude. It's too bad that we don't have the sense to profit from the lesson amply provided by the original Native Americans' failure to nip the Evil White Man's "immigration" in the bud when they had the chance! |
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
