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The Last of the Mohicans ...

Uncas and Alice: A Contrary Opinion

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Bookworm	Posted - June 06 2006 : 08:10:30 AM Is there anyone else here who could not care less if the Uncas-and-Alice "romance" were magically erased from LOTM, never to be seen again?
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Light of the Moon	Posted - August 24 2007 : 10:28:25 PM I'm in the "Lust not Love" gang too. Sorry gals. Do I get a blindfold and cigar?
blackfootblood	Posted - August 24 2007 : 9:54:53 PM quote: Originally posted by Obediah RE: Alice & Uncas -- they are both dead!! Get over it!! Oh, ouch, obi!! I think that earned you a mudpit time-out!
angicx	Posted - August 24 2007 : 5:50:28 PM I don't wanna... I agree it may be possible guys, but, as I've said before, love at first sight (or in moments/days after) is possible, as it happened to me, and sometimes it goes beyond all reason, good or bad. It does happen. I'm not mad tho, and I don't even own a musket. Now I DO have swords
Obediah	Posted - August 23 2007 : 10:03:09 PM RE: Alice & Uncas -- they are both dead!! Get over it!!
Wilderness Woman	Posted - August 23 2007 : 09:51:04 AM quote: Originally posted by RedFraggle And so I join you in front of the firing squad, WW and Dustbunnies! Welcome! The more, the... er... merrier... sort of. You know, we are never going to convince them! It will just have to be enough knowing in our hearts and minds that we are right! [Look out! They're raising their muskets!!]
RedFraggle	Posted - August 23 2007 : 09:00:18 AM quote: Originally posted by angicx . . . I still say the truth is in the eye's and body language Alice's eyes and body language are very powerful, but I see only overwhelming despair in them. I think there may be a hint of guilt there too: when Uncas rushes up to save her and is quickly dispatched, she could easily feel like his death was all her fault. When Magua pushes Uncas's body off the cliff, that's the last straw for Alice. She hits her breaking point. quote: Originally posted by Last of the dustbunnies quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman . . . just before the muskets are fired, I will say yet again: "There was no romance. Uncas was in love with Alice. Alice was not in love with Uncas." Now................DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Rich, where's the smiley aiming a musket at an innocent person?] shes right you know! bang bang And so I join you in front of the firing squad, WW and Dustbunnies! Here we go. . . I think Alice was curious and maybe a little excited (I don't mean in that way!) by Uncas, but not in love with him. In all her sheltered naivety, she is thrilled at the prospect of an "adventure" and seeing "the red men." When one of said "red" men makes googley eyes at her, I think she is intrigued, like first-crush feelings, but ultimately just too British (for lack of a better word) to be all-out in love with him. Cora adapts to her surroundings and shows that she can function outside of polite society, so her feelings for Hawkeye are believable. Alice clearly can't hack it in the violent, chaotic world of the American frontier, and thinks only of the "comforts" of the fort as she is being helped through the forest by . . . Duncan, not Uncas. I just don't think a relationship between her and Uncas would be believable. Her world is too structured. She can't really "think outside the box" of society, so I don't think she'd really fall for Uncas. And as for Uncas---maybe he fell for Alice. Or maybe he just saw her as another, younger version of Alexandra Cameron. Up to this point, he's been quite content to let others help her: she leans on Duncan's arm in the forest, and Ching rescues her from the ambush after the fort's surrender. When Magua and crew are leading her away from the Huron village, it looks, for the first time, like she might be headed to her death. So Uncas rushes to save her to make amends for the fact that he couldn't save Mrs. Cameron. In that case, he's not really in love, per se, but acting on a protective instinct out of feelings of pity and concern. But not love. Now fire away. I'm ready. And I love playing devil's advocate. Heh heh heh.
Last of the dustbunnies	Posted - August 22 2007 : 11:37:02 PM quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman Why Miss Bookworm! You are really ready to stand in front of the firing squad, aren't you? Got your blindfold on? 'Cause I hear the muskets being primed and loaded! To answer your very brave question... Yes. I'm here. And I will join you in front of the firing squad any day. And just before the muskets are fired, I will say yet again: "There was no romance. Uncas was in love with Alice. Alice was not in love with Uncas." Now................DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Rich, where's the smiley aiming a musket at an innocent person?] shes right you know! bang bang
winglo	Posted - August 22 2007 : 8:08:34 PM quote: Originally posted by RedFraggle I'm still skeptical when it comes to talking about "love" between Uncas and Alice. They share some longing looks, but it's a long way from looking at somebody to being in love. I agree with you, Red, looking isn't loving. But, it seems clear to me that Alice is supposed to be a teenager. Maybe 18, maybe younger. Some teenagers think they can, and do, fall in love in an instant. It's maturity that makes us wise to what love really is. So, maybe she thought she was in love. It only took Cora a few days to fall in love with Hawkeye, after all. Now, Uncas clearly isn't as young, but my dad was 26 when he met my mom and he fell hard, instantly, he has told me. So, anything's possible. I guess I'm a romantic. . .I like to believe it was "love", even if it's not a mature love.
angicx	Posted - August 22 2007 : 8:04:03 PM I understand and appreciate what your saying Red, but I still say the truth is in the eye's and body language (although I agree with you about the defiance in her eyes... I just think it's there for a different reason ) The following sums it all up well... quote: Originally posted by Lurking Huron0901 I have watched LOTM many times. I am touched by the love between Hwakeye and Cora, but the subtle love story between Uncas and Alice has always been my favorite part of the movie. The scene when Uncas and Alice die always moves me to tears. To me, Alice's jumping off the cliff is a bold statement of her love for Uncas. Although the movie hugely underplays their romance, I can still feel the strong bond between the two. I do believe that Alice loves Uncas because of two scenes. One is in the cave when Uncas pulls Alice back from the fall and holds her and rocks her, you can see Alice's hand embrace Uncas tightly -- a sign that she likes him. The other scene is when Uncas got wounded and then killed by Magua, the expresssions on Alice's face show shock, concern, pain. and then silent grief. To me, it shows the pain of losing someone she loves, rather than the lost of hope in being rescued. Originally posted by Lurking Huron0943 I think that Alice jumped because she loved Uncas. She would rather join him in death than live alone. At first, she was grief stricken by Uncas's death and didn't know what to do, then she looked down at Uncas and decided to join him. When she had made her decision, she regained her strength and peace. So she looked Magua in the eyes, ignored his gesture of mercy and then threw herself off the cliff calmly. I also think that the brief shot of Uncas and Alice lying side by side at the bottom of the cliff is a strong hint of the reason for Alice's jump --- to be with Uncas. and I definately agree with you here quote: Now, does anyone else think that this whole tragic ending could've been avoided if Hawkeye had just said "Hold on, we're coming" when Alice cried out for Cora in the Huron village? Seems simple to me!
RedFraggle	Posted - August 22 2007 : 6:36:04 PM quote: Originally posted by angicx Young and frightened, she had no reason to jump if she wasn't distraught over Uncas. You can see it when it's clear he's loosing the battle with Magua and she pulls away from her captors and starts to cry, even before he goes over the cliff. She would have no reason to think that there wasn't a chance that the others still might be able to save her. I think she would have held out for that if she hadn't been agonizing over the loss of her short but intensely developed love for Uncas. I'm still skeptical when it comes to talking about "love" between Uncas and Alice. They share some longing looks, but it's a long way from looking at somebody to being in love. I think Alice's suicide has more to do with her being "young and frightened" than with her being in love with Uncas. He was the only one who showed any interest in protecting her specifically; everybody else was too busy fighting over Cora. And I think it's very possible that Alice thought that no one would come to save her: when the sisters are separated in the Huron village, Alice calls (quite pathetically), "Cora?". Cora responds but Hawkeye physically pulls her in the opposite direction. Young, frightened, and completely traumatized by everything she's been through, Alice just might think that her sister is being made to give up on her. (Duncan just got sent to the fire as part of the "deal" with the Hurons, so who's to say anyone is coming for her?) So when Uncas rushes in, he's sort of a light from the darkness, the only one (as far as Alice knows) who IS, in fact, coming to help her. When Uncas dies, Hawkeye, Cora, and Ching are still MIA, and Alice has just been forced to witness the death of the one person who looked to be coming to help her. I think she feels lost and frightened, in addition to devastated by the fact that her sister seems to have abandoned her. Magua's bloody hand is certainly no comfort, and she probably envisions a similar fate for herself . . . so she jumps. Not that I'm saying the "love" theories are wrong or invalid. I just prefer to think that Alice's jump is her single act of defiance in the whole movie. She realizes, in that very moment on the cliff's edge, that her death is the one thing she has control over. Her protector has just died, Duncan has been burned, who knows where Hawkeye dragged Cora off to or if they're coming back, and what's Magua going to do to her? The only way Alice can thwart whatever plans Magua has in store for her is to take the plunge herself. Now, does anyone else think that this whole tragic ending could've been avoided if Hawkeye had just said "Hold on, we're coming" when Alice cried out for Cora in the Huron village? Seems simple to me!
angicx	Posted - August 22 2007 : 2:01:46 PM quote: Originally posted by Lotte However, the romantic side in me would see it that Alice did love Uncas, why else would she jump off the cliff after him if not because she couldn’t bear to live her life without him. It's also the eighteenth century so when Uncas stares at Alice and holds her under the waterfalls that would be considered quite improper, Alice is not so stupid as to not realise that Uncas has feelings for her. Bingo. Young and frightened, she had no reason to jump if she wasn't distraught over Uncas. You can see it when it's clear he's loosing the battle with Magua and she pulls away from her captors and starts to cry, even before he goes over the cliff. She would have no reason to think that there wasn't a chance that the others still might be able to save her. I think she would have held out for that if she hadn't been agonizing over the loss of her short but intensely developed love for Uncas. As far as I'm concerned, it's as clear as day. (the 'ole actions speak louder than words defense in this case)
angicx	Posted - August 22 2007 : 1:29:56 PM quote: Originally posted by Irishgirl I disagree WW and Meg(shocked to hear you say this). I never understood why Uncas was so ready to sacrifice his own life for a girl he had barely even spoken to. This scene would have explained why he did the foolish death run up the cliffside at he end to try and save Alice. I only understood this when I heard about the deleted scene where they had shown a connection between Uncas/Alice. That made it all clear to me. I realize this is an old thread, but I came upon it looking for posts about Alice's braid, enjoyed all the different theories, and wanted to comment I recognized what was going on between the two of them the first time I saw the movie... (at the risk of sounding smug ) While love at first sight is thought by some to be a myth, I believe that's exactly what happened for Uncas pretty much right away. After the present danger sourrounding their meeting had died down and he had a moment to really "notice" Alice, I think he felt something right away (the river walk). Who's to say exactly why. I can tell you from first hand experience that it happens, as my ex-husband and myself met one night, and were together every day thereafter until our split 8 years later. I think it took Alice a bit longer to develop feelings for Uncas, but after the waterfall scene, I think they were there. I also like the story without the sex scene. I think the innocent quality of their feelings for each other is a big attraction for alot of fans, and certainly for me at the very least. Their subtle attraction for each other was one of my fav parts of the movie.
Light of the Moon	Posted - November 02 2006 : 11:04:12 AM Oh no. I didn't misunderstand at all. Actually I was agreeing with you. That's why I didn't want you to take any offense. Wasn't an attack but I guess it kinda' sounded like one. Sorry 'd the "girls dropping like flies" comment. It's rather pathetic. That's ok. When mine gets out there I'll send you a copy. Hopes you like!
Lady of Glencairn	Posted - November 02 2006 : 05:43:36 AM quote: Originally posted by Light of the Moon quote: Originally posted by Lady of Glencairn [quote I take it you havent read a Cassie Edwards novel?? In her books women fall for the 'savages' like flies. But oh well ... that certainly isnt historically correct either ... And for Light ... your lsat post was HILARIOUS!! Oh you're too kind! Thanks LG. Please take no offense in this but........ OH MY GOD! I cannot believe you mentioned Cassie Edwards! I was lent a book from a friend that knows my NA lust habits, I read it and put it down after chapter 5. There is soooooooo much in her books that is no where near reality! Yep - I just about barfed over the whole thing. Although imagining yourself in place of all those cheesy romance girls with the strong NA man all over you...well, it does make up for something. But I still wouldn't read another one. Why read it when you can go after the real deal? Oh no, perhaps you misunderstood my comment. I too barfed after reading the first chapter. Those simpering chits are too much, even for my very tolerant nature!! I found her books (yes I actually read another one in the hopes that it wouldnt be as cheesy and horrific as the previous one - my mistake) terribly melodramatic. Urgh!! Never again!!
Light of the Moon	Posted - November 02 2006 : 12:03:44 AM quote: Originally posted by Lady of Glencairn [quote I take it you havent read a Cassie Edwards novel?? In her books women fall for the 'savages' like flies. But oh well ... that certainly isnt historically correct either ... And for Light ... your lsat post was HILARIOUS!! Oh you're too kind! Thanks LG. Please take no offense in this but........ OH MY GOD! I cannot believe you mentioned Cassie Edwards! I was lent a book from a friend that knows my NA lust habits, I read it and put it down after chapter 5. There is soooooooo much in her books that is no where near reality! Yep - I just about barfed over the whole thing. Although imagining yourself in place of all those cheesy romance girls with the strong NA man all over you...well, it does make up for something. But I still wouldn't read another one. Why read it when you can go after the real deal?
RedFraggle	Posted - November 01 2006 : 08:04:45 AM Okay, here's my two cents: I think Uncas definitely had feelings for Alice--consider his goo goo eyes, after all! --but I'm not so sure Alice was in love. She spends most of the movie, even when she's in Uncas' arms under the waterfall (!), looking shocked and confused. She's clearly a very sheltered girl, and I think she would probably look to Uncas as a protector rather than a lover. He's the only member of the party who shows an active interest in protecting her: Duncan is busy trying to look out for (and impress) Cora, Hawkeye's mind is also on Cora, and Ching's just sort of in the background. So why NOT fall into Uncas' arms under the waterfall? Why NOT jump off a cliff after watching the one man who has protected you get brutally killed? Duncan clearly can't help Alice at this point (since he's in the Huron BBQ pit), and when Uncas is killed Hawkeye and Ching haven't even made it to the cliffs yet. Alice is confronted with the death of her protector and the fact that maybe she's left all alone with Magua, who uses his bloody hand to call her back from the cliff's edge. The way I see it: Maybe Alice's jump isn't so much a "lover's leap" for Uncas' sake as it is her one, final act of defiance. It's the one thing she can do to save herself from the fate that is apparently in store for her (becoming Magua's wife so Munro's "seed" isn't wiped out, as the Sachem says). But maybe I'm swayed on this point by something not related to LOTM at all. Ever read "Ivanhoe"? The Jewish maiden Rebecca threatens to throw herself from a tower when faced with the possibility of being raped by her captor, Brian de Bois-Guilbert. I think Alice is perhaps in a very similar situation at the end of LOTM. But that's just my humble opinion. And I guess if Alice ISN'T in love with Uncas, it's good news for all Uncas fans.
Lady of Glencairn	Posted - November 01 2006 : 06:17:08 AM quote: Originally posted by Obediah Yeah, Uncas did seem to be in love with Alice; at least he made quite a few Goo-Goo Eyes at her. BUT...Alice certainly didn't return those feelings. What proper Brit/Scot maiden could fall in love with a "savage Indian?" Oh well, we're just talking about a movie, not historical accuracy. "If it ain't broke, don't break it!" I take it you havent read a Cassie Edwards novel?? In her books women fall for the 'savages' like flies. But oh well ... that certainly isnt historically correct either ... And for Light ... your lsat post was HILARIOUS!!
Light of the Moon	Posted - October 11 2006 : 8:47:05 PM Yeah, I really do look like an amazon, always thought so. Made it hard to find a date when I was younger. As for Uncas and short women, I can beat him into submission! "You will love me, dang it!" Uncas replies: Quick, where's the back door?
Obediah	Posted - October 11 2006 : 10:30:44 AM Didn't Uncas like only short girls? Yeah, I'm sure he did...
Irishgirl	Posted - October 11 2006 : 09:36:00 AM quote: Originally posted by Light of the Moon Well, you may not be that short but I'm an inch under six feet. And yeah, I do run fast (long legs). Wow as they say in the tennis world "you're a big babe" Light. Best not stand next to you anytime soon. At five feet 6 inches I am not short but next to an Amazon I would appear that way Good luck with the Black Belt
Light of the Moon	Posted - October 11 2006 : 09:03:57 AM Well, you may not be that short but I'm an inch under six feet. And yeah, I do run fast (long legs). But don't let it fool ya'. Tae Kwan Do has recently been a favorite past time. Made a black belt run from me a month ago...no seriously, I really did! Close to getting mine soon!!
Obediah	Posted - October 10 2006 : 12:12:25 AM quote: quote: Originally posted by Light of the Moon Posted by Obi B Juan Now, young lady, any more cracks of that 'thermometer/psychiatrist' nature, and I'll take you over my knee and give you a good spanking! [/size=2] You don't scare me! I've ran from smaller people than you before! I not that small! But considering you're half my age, I'm sure you're faster... PS. For any of you who are reading this & wondering about the "Obi Juan" reference, it refers to "Obi Juan Kenobi - The Hispanic Jedi", since my name has been shortened to "Obi," get it? ... Oh never mind...
Light of the Moon	Posted - October 09 2006 : 9:42:45 PM Posted by Obi B Juan Now, young lady, any more cracks of that 'thermometer/psychiatrist' nature, and I'll take you over my knee and give you a good spanking! [/size=2] [/quote] You don't scare me! I've ran from smaller people than you before!
Lotte	Posted - October 06 2006 : 12:30:32 PM quote: Originally posted by Obediah Would not! This is starting to sound like we're about 6 years old... Yeah, but everyone knows six year olds rock! lol quote: Originally posted by Obediah I assume you're British since you live in the UK. I'll make no comments about the 'maiden' part. BUT...I'm sure you weren't born in 1740! True, I am British, likewise no comment on the 'maiden' part but I must say I think it is rather astounding that you figured out that I wasn't born in 1740! Lol, just kidding quote: Originally posted by Obediah So perhaps I should have phrased it 'a proper Brit/Scott maiden of the 18th century.' Believe me, Europeans of that era (especially the English) had very little respect for Indians. Even the French (who treated the tribes much better) called them "les Sauvages". I know that in your post you meant maidens of the 18th century, I just though I'd pick up on the fact that you didn't specify. I'm quite ready to accept that they did find Indians savages back then. But as you said, we're just talking about a movie, not historical accuracy so I'm entitled to believe what I want... Uncas and Alice
Obediah	Posted - October 06 2006 : 11:40:21 AM quote: Originally posted by Lotte quote: Originally posted by Obediah Would not! Would so! Seeing as you're neither British (well you could be British but you live in the US so I'll take it you're American) nor a maiden (at least I hope not!) then how can you say 'a proper Brit/Scot maiden' wouldn't fall in love with someone like Uncas? Uncas and Alice - so there! Would not! This is starting to sound like we're about 6 years old... I assume you're British since you live in the UK. I'll make no comments about the 'maiden' part. BUT...I'm sure you weren't born in 1740! So perhaps I should have phrased it 'a proper Brit/Scott maiden of the 18th century.' Believe me, Europeans of that era (especially the English) had very little respect for Indians. Even the French (who treated the tribes much better) called them "les Sauvages". quote: Originally posted by Light of the Moon What?! I guess she cried over his final moments and lept from the mtn for nothing. Bummer! Can someone get Obediah a thermometer and a psychiatrist! Alice might not have jumped if Magua (the dummy) hadn't motioned to her with his bloody hand! I might have jumped, myself! Now, young lady, any more cracks of that 'thermometer/psychiatrist' nature, and I'll take you over my knee and give you a good spanking!

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