| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mountain Man |
Posted - March 09 2006 : 10:27:04 PM
At the burial ground scene we see the Ottawa war party come to a stop and retreat because they are approaching a sacred burial site. Obviously it isn’t an Ottawa burial ground since they would not enter into it...and I am not sure if it is Mohican because upon entering, Chingachgook and the others avoid stepping on the grass and cross to the other side of it. So to what Indian tribe did this burial ground belong to? Any thoughts? I would guess Mohican...but I'm not sure.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Light of the Moon |
Posted - November 16 2006 : 9:24:39 PM
I'd check with the Chamber of Commerce or maybe known historians. The chamber could probably point you in the right direction.
Another idea ...a library or bookstore (Barnes & Nobles will probably be best for this research) would have history books on NA history and their locations and life styles.
If my studies were correct then that area was inhabited by the Seneca, the Cherokee, the Chicksaw, and the Shawnee (mid 1700's).
If your Dad can recall the tribe that would have lived in that area you could always go straight to their website and contact council.
Wes will also be a pretty good reference. If he ain't an historian by now then he's missed his calling!
Now that my curiosity is struck I'll be doing some searching too. Good luck!
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| RedFraggle |
Posted - November 13 2006 : 3:22:20 PM
Hey, off topic a bit but what the heck. Ridgerunner's post reminded me of this:
My dad claims that he has seen somewhere in the Arkansas-Tennessee area a cave with adobe dwellings in it. Every year when I was a kid and my family went on vacation he would spend hours looking for this site. We all thought he was making it up because we never found it and park rangers in all the areas investigated just gave us funny looks. Anybody out there know of anything like this? Just curious.... |
| Light of the Moon |
Posted - November 13 2006 : 3:06:54 PM
Digging up the dead from the mounds, yeah it really happened long ago.
I'll side with you on the whole manure part !
Here in Boone County KY there are numerous Shawnee burial grounds along the OH river and in Hebron itself.
About a year ago a new subdivision was put in and well...you know the rest. They shut up the media right away and stopped construction for a while. I guess once they got an ok from the gov. they went ahead and built on top of it.
Right across the river in Lawrenceburg, IN they found a pioneers graveyard atop a hill. Been there since 1627. Once they received ok from big brother they dug it up and built on top of it too! It's been said that there was some equipment buried with the settlers and that stuff was sold to a museum. Ouch . So much for respect for our heritage.
In the subdivision where my parents live there is a burial mound just beyond the woods bordering their property. A really big one but because it was owned by a farmer until he could verify that the state recognized ir as a historical burial grounds the purchaseres were permitted to build up to a certain distance from it. So at least it has some respect from modern day society.
And if you ever fly into the Northern KY/Cincinnati Airport there are two burial mounds visible by the employee parking lot if you're landing from the northern side. Yep, built their airport right up against it. Funny they don't do that to any other grave yards.
Don't even get me on that soapbox !
I should have been an attorney for NA affairs!
For many reasons: NA men being one of the perks . |
| Ridgerunner |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 9:53:29 PM
Bookworm,
I see that you are from Carlisle...are you familiar with the role of the Paxtang Boys during this era? |
| Bookworm |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 6:19:03 PM
Yes, RedFraggle, that reference to fertilizer was startling, to say the least. Sounds like respect for other cultures wasn't high on the list of people's concerns in the '20s, or maybe the bones were assumed to be so ancient that they didn't really seem like the remains of PEOPLE anymore.
Welcome, Ridgerunner! (I'm a flatlander myself.) Interesting piece of information about the Indian cemetery in Lebanon County. I guess we shouldn't be surprised at finding an Indian graveyard anywhere, since once, to paraphrase Chingachgook, they were everywhere. |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 5:31:46 PM
Yeah, - but a tasty snack no doubt! ... ;) |
| Fitzhugh Williams |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 5:04:38 PM
This was also done to Egyptain mummies at one time (i.e. made into fertilizer). Gives soilent green a whole new meaning. |
| Ridgerunner |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 5:02:32 PM
I was raised in Lebanon County,PA and one day while a young child my uncle & I visited an Indian cemetary outside of Lebanon,PA.As I was told more than 50 years ago,the Indian dead were placed in trees(platforms)...I never really researched into this.
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| RedFraggle |
Posted - November 12 2006 : 08:26:13 AM
I realize the original question is somewhat off topic now, but here goes.
In Cooper's book---which may or may not be relevant to the movie, considering it's so different in other ways---the burial ground is a relic of a war between the Mohicans and the Mohawks. Hawkeye and Chingachgook fought in this war and buried the dead themselves---which is why they are OK treading on the gravesite while the more suspicious Huron warriors, who don't know the story behind the mound, are not.
Like I said, don't know if Cooper's original has any bearing on the movie version, but it makes sense, anyway.
By the way, was anyone else who followed the link to the "Book Indian Mound" story appalled by the fact that some of the contents of the mound were ground up and used as fertilizer by local farmers? Yech! Gross AND a total disrespect of the dead. But I guess maybe that wasn't a big issue in the 1920's. |
| Light of the Moon |
Posted - November 11 2006 : 3:55:47 PM
Blue Jacket's pretty good to. It's done near Columbus, OH usually in Sept. |
| Bookworm |
Posted - November 07 2006 : 7:32:34 PM
While searching the Internet for something else the other day, I came across a site that might offer a different way of looking at the burial ground scene:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~pajchs/indianmound.html
Although Juniata County, PA, is directly to the south of Snyder County, where I grew up, I had never before heard of the "Book Indian Mound." According to this article, it was customary for the dead to be placed on platforms or in trees for some time, and when the tribe was planning to move on or it was otherwise appropriate, the dead -- skeletons by then -- were bundled together and interred in mounds. This theory suggests that the burial ground scene of LOTM could be accurate, as it would portray the first stage of this process. Of course, this theory is completely contrary to Fitz's understanding, which is mine also, of how the Indians of the northeast buried their dead. It's worth noting that this explanation of the burial mound is from the 1920's, and archaeology and ethnohistory have undoubtedly advanced quite a bit since then. Also, I think the article's reference to "Algonquin" Indians must be wrong, as the Algonquins were way up north beyond the Huron regions. (If memory serves, they were one of the peoples portrayed in the movie "Black Robe.") Must have meant "Algonquian," a reference to the language group and not the tribe. Anyway, it's an interesting idea. Has anyone else ever heard of this burial practice among the northeastern peoples?
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| Irishgirl |
Posted - April 24 2006 : 1:53:03 PM
Well I always enjoy the re-enactors at Gettysburg. Been there about 4 or 5 times now and they put on a great show. My husband has had me trapesing all over many's a Civil War Battlefield but Gettysburg is my favorite by far. |
| alikws |
Posted - April 24 2006 : 1:43:08 PM
at the 225'th saratoga, there was a night cannon firing. this was near ft.edwards, we were camped on an island
in the middle of lake george [the narrows, picnic island, in the mother bunch] as part of a f&i tactical, we could hear and see the firing, at least 20 miles out, not hard to imagine it was the french, at wm henry... unexpected and cool....
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| paazau |
Posted - April 23 2006 : 9:28:37 PM
That would have been truly spectacular. I hope I can experience it one day. I'm sure it will definitely be "more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." Sorry, I love that line... I'll have to do some reading up on this re-enacting.. sounds like the next best thing to actually living in the 18th century. Not that I've got much chance of doing either, but hey, ya gotta go with what moves ya! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - April 23 2006 : 7:11:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by paazau
Full-scale fighting would be awesome!
You have absolutely no idea how thrilling it can be. The largest re-enactment I have seen was during the 225th Commemoration of the Battles of Saratoga (Revolutionary War). I believe I heard that there were over 1,000 re-enactors there, and there were literally hundreds of soldiers on the field, fighting. It was the most spectacular thing I have ever seen. And it was part of what got me hooked on the 18th century, and interested in becoming a civilian re-enactor. |
| paazau |
Posted - April 22 2006 : 11:21:50 PM
That'd be interesting stuff to see, reenacting. I can only recall ever seeing tiny things, one or two people doing demonstrations. Full-scale fighting would be awesome!  Sounds like the Seminoles provide alot of entertainment for everybody. Good on 'em!  If ya ain't havin' fun, no point in doin' it! |
| Fitzhugh Williams |
Posted - April 22 2006 : 7:07:28 PM
I do a lot of Rev War reenacting. There are a some of guys that want to do an Indian impression and also go to the Rev War events. They always look for some documentation of Indians fighting with either the British or Colonials in the South and all they ever come up with is the Catawba. Then the problem becomes that the Catawba didn't dress or act like the reenactors wish they did. So if they call themselves a Catawba and fall in with a unit, and do it correctly, they look no different that anyone else. But there is a group of Seminoles that show up everywhere. Of course they aren't correct being there, but they are such a hoot that nobody cares. Craziest bunch of Indians I have ever seen. I had the pleasure of fighting with them against the French at Fort Toulouse, and that was quite an experience. Not that fighting against the French was a pleasure, only that fighting with the Seminoles was. |
| paazau |
Posted - April 22 2006 : 5:55:24 PM
Hmm interesting info about the Catawba, Fitzhugh. Thanks for that. As I always say "you learn something new every day". I wasn't sure (not being knowledgeable about tribes and customs at all), but just thought I'd throw it out there as a possibility.... |
| Fitzhugh Williams |
Posted - April 22 2006 : 10:42:07 AM
I think you may be referencing the Catawba tribe located in the Carolinas. They quickly became assimilated into the English culture and even served with the English in military actions. It was said that the only way to tell a Catawba was that he was dressed better than you. I do not think that the customs of the plains Indians would have extended to the Carolinas. |
| paazau |
Posted - April 22 2006 : 02:34:27 AM
The book I just finished about Red Cloud has some interesting information in it regarding the Sioux’ territories. You recall Highlander said the burial ground could be Sioux... Well, according to the book, Sioux were that far east. The great Siouan family consisted of "Dakotas, Crows, Poncas, Osages, Kaws, Quapaw, Otoes, Biloxi and Catauba plus many other tribes". The Sioux had a strip of territory “extending through the Carolinas and Virginia into Maryland as far as the Potomac River”. That may not be as far north as our party was, but elsewhere in the book it talks of a raid that Red Cloud went on that was far from their camp; when one of their party was killed they “buried him in a tree” and continued on their way home. If a band of Sioux had been out hunting or raiding and were being pursued, they most likely wouldn’t bother to take their dead comrade with them, rather they would bury him where they could.
Shed any new light on it for you Mt Man? |
| Bookworm |
Posted - March 19 2006 : 2:25:01 PM
Nice comparison with Jeremiah Johnson, Mountain Man! That's one of my favorite movies. (Remember, Seamus, in the days before video, when everyone we knew seemed to watch Jeremiah Johnson every time it was shown on TV?) That burial ground scene was indeed chilling, and not only because of the miserable weather, but also
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
because upon seeing it you began to fear that an awful retribution was going to be visited upon Jeremiah, and no matter how hard you wished for it to be otherwise, you couldn't change what was coming. |
| paazau |
Posted - March 18 2006 : 04:53:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man
Eric Schweig is not in “Jeremiah Johnson”. You get Robert Redford instead.
Thanks for the info MM but no thanks. Since I've seen Eric as Uncas  no other actor comes close to his status in my eyes. They might as well all stop workin' cause I won't go see their movies.
quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
I just watched Follow the River and what can I say except a must for any Eric Schweig fans. Looking hot ladies and you wanna hear the best part, shirtless for the whole movie. <snip> but if he came to my house to abduct me and take me away for his wife I would certainly not complain. Definitely worth seeing.
Thanks for the tip Irishgirl. I'll be gettin' that one (before Big Eden I think!) and havin' an "ES" weekend!!! 
quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Eric is not in "Jeremiah Johnson",but he IS in "Follow The River".
And thanks for the tip Highlander. You're not hopin' to keep us Uncas girls busy watchin' Eric's movies and off the board are ya?? 
Shaz |
| Irishgirl |
Posted - March 17 2006 : 11:12:53 PM
I just watched Follow the River and what can I say except a must for any Eric Schweig fans. Looking hot ladies and you wanna hear the best part, shirtless for the whole movie. I had seen this years ago but Highlander you brought it back to mind and had to see it again. Don't want to spoil the story for those of you who have not seen it and may want to but if he came to my house to abduct me and take me away for his wife I would certainly not complain. Definitely worth seeing. |
| Highlander |
Posted - March 15 2006 : 7:42:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by paazau
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man
<<snip>> Anyone who is a fan of Last of the Mohicans, may want to check this movie out. I highly recommend it.
Hi Mountain Man. I'm new in these parts, and might I say enjoying the site immensely! Kudos to all those responsible.
One question about the movie you recomment: Is Eric (uncas) in it?? 
On a more serious note, the burial ground scene, I feel, plays a very important part in the movie, giving Cora and Nathaniel a chance to learn more of the other's lives and views. It may not be historically or geographically correct, but as alikws says, it is obvious what it is.
Eric is not in "Jeremiah Johnson",but he IS in "Follow The River".Available from www.amazon.com  |
| Mountain Man |
Posted - March 15 2006 : 4:45:27 PM
WAIT A MINUTE! How did the subject go from burial grounds to Unca? Oh, yeah . . . I mentioned another male actor in a movie. I should have seen that one coming a mile away. Walks away shaking his head  |
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