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LAST OF THE MOHICANS

The Last of the Mohicans ...

Alice looks towrds Uncas

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ssweetiess	Posted - February 23 2005 : 3:09:57 PM I keep reading over and over in posts that say there is no way of telling how alice feels..well I have been watching the movie the oast few days to catch this stuff and have caught three ways of knowing. #1 when Uncas chases the horses away and she yells at him and he grabs her they both stand there for a minute and I dont think she is looking at him out of fear I think she is somehow mesmerized by him..Cora has to pull her away. They stand there for at least thirty seconds staring into each other. #2 Under the falls Alice hold onto Uncas very tightly..she embraces him. #3 At the cliffs when she first sees Uncas come she tries to get free to get to him and than when he gets slashed its like they look at each other and its almost their eyes are telling each other how they feel..and when she looks at Magua its like she is telling him that her destiny is with Uncas in death not with him. There are more and i think if the love scene were put in it would have been a lot more clear..u just really have to study the movie..I am gonna go watch it again see if there is anything else i can find..but read the script and its obvious how much Alice loves Uncas..I just dont think she realized how deeply until the cliffs scene..thats when she realized her place was with Uncas..she definently didnt die out of fear.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
silentthunder	Posted - April 13 2005 : 11:39:09 PM quote: Originally posted by chasis_22 Take your best shot silent thunder! Aiming-->>Throwing-->>Doink-->> Mission accomplished!! I guess now you're definitely not returning my other shoe. It's OK, my Uncas just made me moccasins.
chasis_22	Posted - April 11 2005 : 2:30:12 PM Take your best shot silent thunder!
Lurking Huron9931	Posted - April 10 2005 : 12:27:32 AM Lurking Huron7638, that's some really awesome info! I'm sure there's a thread about getting another DVD released somewhere, maybe someone should copy it into that thread. I'm sure other people besides those of us who want to see more Alice/Uncas would be interested in a Special Edition DVD too and probably wouldn't think to look in this thread ;)
silentthunder	Posted - April 10 2005 : 12:12:04 AM quote: Originally posted by chasis_22 Very interesting LH7638. I am going to have to see that version you are talking about. Now as for you Silent thunder. Your shoe hit me in the head and gave me a knott! It's on like donkey kong now missy! You thought the tomatoes were bad....well you ain't seen nothin yet! COW PATTY FIGHT! Chasis, give me back my shoe!! You have no idea how uncomfortable it has been limping around with only one shoe. If you don't give it back, you'll leave me with no choice but to throw you with the other one, and give you another knot.
Lurking Huron7638	Posted - April 08 2005 : 02:36:00 AM I e-mailed Elaine Dutka, the writer of the LA Times article, about how to contact some of these people, and today she sent a reply back that the contact person for Fox was Steve Feldstein. His phone number is 310-369-5369. So what are you guys waiting for? Start a new campaign! Work on the distributor end of things! Michael Mann is a busy guy and an artist with plenty of stuff to do. He has better things to do besides responding to the desires of fans. But distributors - a different story! Mostly they just see that there is this stuff sitting in their film libraries not earning any money, and if they can find some way to turn that unused footage or that never- seen- since- 1992 Preview Version of LOTM into gold..... You see what I mean? I would note also that there is a similar situation brewing with a Special Edition DVD of "Blade Runner". I don't know how many of you guys have seen the DVD vs. VHS vs Theatrical Release versions of Blade Runner, but Ridley Scott did a slash and burn on the DVD Director's Cut, which a lot of fans hated. Like LOTM, the Director's Cut is the only version of Blade Runner on DVD currently. Recently, pressure from fans has caused work on a 3-disc Special Edition version of "Blade Runner", with three versions of the movie - the original theatrical release, the Director's Cut, and a new Director's Cut, to begin. Unfortunately, the Special Edition DVD set has been hung up by legal problems. This is all spelled out in the customer review section of Amazon.com for Blade Runner. So, like Arwen said: "There is still hope...."
Lurking Huron7638	Posted - April 08 2005 : 02:12:05 AM Here's a recent article from the April 5, 2005 Los Angeles Times that might give all the fans on this message board some hope: Give me 'MacGyver'! Demand leads to DVDs · Fans ask for a favorite show or film on disc and studios respond. Input on bonus material, packaging is also sought. By Elaine Dutka, Times Staff Writer Tyson Craemer, a 22-year-old graphic design student, is crazy about Jim Henson's "Fraggle Rock" series, a show about three civilizations cohabiting the same universe. It debuted on HBO in 1983 — the year after Craemer was born. His hopes for a DVD resurrection faltered when the Hallmark Channel canceled reruns a few years ago. Undeterred, he was one of 30,000 petitioners for a home video release. Late last year came word that HIT Entertainment, lured by the prospect of a passionate, easy-to-reach audience, would release two DVDs in January and another on April 15. Craemer and his obsession have plenty of company. In recent years, e-mail campaigns and fan demand have also triggered DVDs of Universal Studios' "The Big Lebowski," 20th Century Fox's "Simon and Garfunkel: The Concert in Central Park," Lions Gate's "Glengarry Glen Ross" and Paramount Pictures' "MacGyver" series. Home video executives peruse websites such as dvdtalk.com and dvdfile .com in search of requests — and complaints. If it's not exactly democracy in action, it is a lively trend in home video research: probing the consumer mind-set to determine which DVDs are most in demand, what bonus features would bolster sales and what packaging is most appealing. The Web is the great equalizer, Craemer says by phone from his home in Boca Raton, Fla. "Hollywood doesn't have to guess what the customers want — we're telling them," he says. And they're listening. Home video executives at 20th Century Fox meet semiannually with a group called Home Theater Forum, whose members fly out at their own expense to weigh in on upcoming product. MGM's "Showgirls" DVD included a feature-length audio commentary, "The Greatest Movie Ever Made," by super-fan David Schmader — a novel take for a film skewered by critics. Sony Pictures, meanwhile, put alternative packaging concepts for TV's "Party of Five" online, shelving its initial choice when 85% of respondents opted for another. "Interacting with fans becomes a great marketing vehicle, one with a huge payoff," says Don Rosenberg, publisher of the Santa Ana-based Home Media Retailing Magazine. "You're letting them know a title is on the way without spending any advertising dollars. It's also a reality check for insulated Hollywood executives and a means of generating goodwill." Lions Gate found out just how valuable fan input can be with "The Crying Game." Logging on to a website, the distributor stumbled onto rumors about an alternate ending, one confirmed by director Neil Jordan. That footage was included on a DVD released in January. On its "T-2 Special Edition," director James Cameron reversed a decision not to record commentary, at fans' urging. Based on information gathered from the Web, focus groups and screenings, Universal Studios scheduled two separate DVD launches in the fall of 2003 for Brian De Palma's "Scarface" — a New York event featuring stars Michelle Pfeiffer and Al Pacino and a gala in Puerto Rico attended by more than 300 urban disc jockeys — catering to its hard-core hip-hop audience. In response to public interest, the studio is releasing the Coen brothers' "The Big Lebowski" on home video later this year. "We're going to coordinate the launch around one of the 'Lebowski' fests," says Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "A lot of these movies develop fans afterward … who would have known?" Warner Bros.' catalog division has also been aggressive in soliciting feedback. Last week, executives participated in an annual online chat, moderated by the Home Theater
Lurking Huron7638	Posted - April 08 2005 : 01:37:00 AM I saw the Preview version in 1992, and have never seen it again since. If you search the archives of this message board, you will find posts where others have seen preview versions of this movie also. There may have been more than one preview version, and this is implied in the recent Madeleine Stowe interview posted on this site. Michael Mann appears to have been test marketing different cuts of his movie. This might account for why there are some differences in the posted accounts of the Preview Version. But one thing that seems to be consistent - the Preview Version(s) was (were) longer, and the Alice-Uncas love affair was left in.
UncasLover13	Posted - April 05 2005 : 7:49:47 PM How can I get my hands on that version, LH7638?? Is there any way?? Please let me know. :) --UL13
chasis_22	Posted - April 05 2005 : 3:27:25 PM Very interesting LH7638. I am going to have to see that version you are talking about. Now as for you Silent thunder. Your shoe hit me in the head and gave me a knott! It's on like donkey kong now missy! You thought the tomatoes were bad....well you ain't seen nothin yet! COW PATTY FIGHT!
Lurking Huron7638	Posted - April 05 2005 : 1:11:30 PM There was a longer Preview Version of the "Last of the Mohicans" that made it quite clear that Alice and Uncas had fallen in love. There were no overt scenes - just a series of extended exchanges of "looks" between the two, mainly at the fort. That exchange of "looks" that you guys are talking about when Uncas drives the horses away was only the first in a series of these exchanges of looks in the Preview Edition. Taken together, they add up to an obvious undercurrent of growing interest between the two of them. Russell Means talks about this use of the exchange of looks between Alice and Uncas as being the primary means for conveying the message that the two were falling in love. Also in the Preview Version, at the end, Alice does look down and sees Uncas' body. There was then a shot of their two bodies lying side by side down at the bottom of the cliff. The meaning of the ending in the Preview Version was pretty obvious - Alice jumped to join Uncas in death. The current version of this movie is very, very confused as to whether there is an Alice-Uncas love affair or not. When I first saw this version of the movie, having seen the Preview Version twice, I sure was confused. Without the series of exchanges of meaningful glances between them, when Uncas grabs and hugs Alice under the waterfall, it almost looks like he's making a pass at her, an unwanted sexual harrassment type of move. In the Preview Version, it was more obvious that when he did this that Alice would welcome a hug from him. And the ending! Think about it! Currently, with no obvious love affair between the two of them, ask yourself, why does Uncas race ahead of his compatriots to attack Magua's war party single handedly, only to get himself killed? Why then does Alice jump off the cliff, seconds before her rescuers arrive on the scene? When they die, there is only a wide angle shot of the cliff. You can barely see their bodies at the bottom, they are just tiny specks. The current version demeans their deaths, by making them appear foolish, rather than as besotted lovers.
silentthunder	Posted - March 30 2005 : 5:15:58 PM Chasis 22, please aim lower. My makeup is ruined, you keep hitting me in my eye. Ouch!! My mascara is running down my cheeks. Where on earth am I suppose to buy some more makeup, since I'm stuck here in the middle of the wilderness. Get ready cause now I'm throwing anything I can find over to your side of the fence. Watch out here comes the potatoes, corn, my shoes, and whatever else I could find to throw. lol....
Seamus	Posted - March 30 2005 : 2:57:08 PM I am here, WW....over here...leaning against this big pine tree, quietly observing......I am here, and I've got you covered. While I am not a Moderator on this particular Forum, I am a Moderator on others,and I do advise when I am asked. I have been asked......so here goes. People...the key word here is 'civility'. I would like to remind everyone to be polite and civil to all on this Board, as you would want them to be to you. While we might not agree with someone's points or their views on a given subject, this is not a reason to be nasty or condescending. If you have a problem with something that someone writes the best thing to do is to write to the person privately not insight a flame war or to publicly insult that person. Personal attacks will not tolerated on the Board. If you do not agree with someone's documentation or theories, we can have civilized discussions on the matter. Everything has more than one possibility, and there is room for all sides of an issue. If you cannot be civil, then do not contribute. You do not have to agree, you only have to respect the other person and their opinions. Moderators have the power and authority to lock topics, recommend suspension or outright banning for egregious violations. Rarely called upon to enforce it, it can happen. We all hope it never comes to that point. There have been some instances in the past which have caused serious rifts and driven good folks away from Mohicanland. I don't want to see that happen again. There is room for everyone. Now..........that having been said, let's step back, take a deep breath, think about how you can get your point across civilly, and we can then have a good debate. .......and put those damned tomatoes down.
Wilderness Woman	Posted - March 28 2005 : 7:59:12 PM Easy there, Ladies... Easy.... Let's all just step back, take a deep breath and calm down a little. I know this is a very... er... passionate... subject, more for some than for others. Chasis 22, there are board moderators, such as myself, here who can take care of situations like this... please? I think that perhaps Eilan was a "hit and run" poster. Let's put the claws away and not yell at each other, alright? Obviously, the story of Uncas and Alice and who loved whom, or not, will never be decided. You will all never agree. But let's not take the fun out of it for everyone. And don't force me to call out the Militia! Thank you for your cooperation. Psssssst..... Seamus? Sgt. Munro? Get your muskets ready just in case.....
UncasLover13	Posted - March 28 2005 : 7:37:33 PM I agree, Chasis 22! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but let's express our opinions in a nice, polite manner! ;) --Nora
Light of the Moon	Posted - March 28 2005 : 2:12:55 PM Ok,ok,ok...I have to know. There are so many other political and moral issues that could use such energy as we've seen on this topic. The whole Uncas/Alice relationship is fictional. This site was intended for fun. Not cat fighting. As for "Whether or not MM intended to portray the relationship unclearly or not" I'd like to know who here has talked to MM directly? End of story.
chasis_22	Posted - March 27 2005 : 12:27:47 PM Thank you misschanelno5. I just hate to see nasty posts when there is really no need for it. And as for MM. You will never convince me that he did not intentionally make the Alice and Uncas romance thing unclear. I betcha he is kicking back with a bag of popcorn and laughing at the debates that have gone on and thinking to himself..."I'm good"! That's alright though...just wait til we tie him up and demand our extra footage!
misschanelno5	Posted - March 26 2005 : 7:08:07 PM Well-said, chasis-22! I especially admire your point suggesting Michael Mann might have chosen to strive for ambiguity. In an age where an overwhelming number of popular films are those with their points clearly made and their lines firmly drawn, I find that the bravery to entertain ambiguity is really refreshing. And far more interesting than black-and-white -- much more like that incredibly messy real-life stuff! P.S. Hope I can dodge those tomatoes too!
chasis_22	Posted - March 26 2005 : 2:22:00 PM Ok I always knew that we would be divided on our views of Uncas and Alice but this is getting out of hand. This site is supposed to be fun. In the time I have spent at this site I have never seen claws come out over any of our topics. Eilan I think that it was very out of line for you to post in such a harsh way. Judging by your title I am assuming you are still fairly new to this site so I am going to put it to you and everyone else like this. We are a family here. We respect each other's opinions and views. The "Alice and Uncas Romance" is a topic that has been going on for years and as said in many other posts...is likely to go on for many more. There is no reason to get nasty with anyone here because their opinion doesn't match your own. Now as far as the whole Uncas and Alice were lovers thing goes...it doesn't matter. We have for the most part chosen our sides of the fence on the romance between the two based on what we observed in the movie. I, like many others here stick to my guns that there was romance there. But I also take time to see things from the other side of the fence. It is possible to see it both ways. Personally I think MM did that on purpose but that is my opinion. You should embrace the opinions of others and not be so close minded. As far as you saying that there are no doubts about Alice loving Uncas because it is (this kills me) FACT!.....sweetie there are very little of those in this movie. Why, because the movie itself is fictional. Try not to get so offensive about your views on the movie...especially if you are going to base your conclusions on parts of a script that weren't even used. You are more than welcome to post your opinions but it is very disrespectful to do it in such a rude manner. With that said I am going to sit on my side of the fence with the rest of the Uncas nutts and find the biggest, nastiest, rotten tomatoes to throw at Wilderness Woman and Silent Thunder! Cover your heads it's gonna get messy!
Lurking Huron1442	Posted - March 26 2005 : 01:26:09 AM Finally, - the real answer appears. Thanks LH 6217, it's the lesser of two evils, life as a slave or a quick drop.
Lurking Huron6217	Posted - March 25 2005 : 11:32:40 PM I was just on another thread debating the U-A romance. I, too, read the script re U-A under the waterfall. I think their "moment" together was a result of their desperation.....Magua is intent on killing them; Alice clearly is not able to cope with the situation and is about to give their location away. When Uncas "pulls her close to him" (or whatever), it's simply out of preservation for them all. Alice, in turn, is just losing it (not that getting chummy with Uncas is losing it) but she's just not coping and she "escapes" in his arms. When she goes over the cliffs, it's not because she was in love with Uncas and would rather be with him, I think she didn't want to be Magua's slave (you know he would have put her through hell--mentally and physically). Because she was so "fragile", she didn't think far enough ahead to realize that if Uncas was there, Chingosgook (ok, that's spelled wrong!), Hawkeye and Cora couldn't be far behind. But after Uncas was defeated, she panicked and, chose a quick death at the cliff rather than a long one with Magua. The scene with the horses---Uncas was looking at her because he couldn't believe she was so emotional about the horses. At the burial ground, he pulled her close to him to stop her from bobbing around and giving away their position. I can't see any indication of a romance between the two.
silentthunder	Posted - March 20 2005 : 03:38:30 AM quote: Originally posted by eilan I don't absolutely agree!!! Alice WAS in love with Uncas!!!The script clearly says "HER LOVER"...do you know the mean of these 2 words???? Can You Read the above reply, in which misschanelno5 was kind enough to take the time and write the definitions for you. Thanks so much for the information misschanelno5.
misschanelno5	Posted - March 19 2005 : 7:44:54 PM quote: Alice WAS in love with Uncas!!!The script clearly says "HER LOVER"...do you know the mean of these 2 words???? It means SHE LOVED HIM!!!! Is not difficult to understand! It's more complicated for the compilers of Miriam-Webster .. they came up with no fewer than four definitions for the word lover: 1 a : a person in love; especially : a man in love with a woman b plural : two persons in love with each other 2 : an affectionate or benevolent friend 3 : DEVOTEE 4 a : PARAMOUR b : a person with whom one has sexual relations The word has a history, too ... in the eighteenth-century fiction class I'm currently taking, many of the texts (Moll Flanders, Pamela, etc.) feature the word "lover" in the context of anyone interested in pursuing a courtship. No matter what "lover" means then or now, I think the use of the word "her" says a lot too, and supports Wilderness Woman's point that Alice was not necessarily in any position to return love. Personally, I agree with Wilderness Woman ... I might even go further and say that neither Uncas and Alice could have been in love, per se, because they barely knew each other. Maybe it could be better characterized as "in lust". That said -- Uncas and Alice are my favorite romantic relationship in the film; for some reason, they're just more intriguing to me! On that subject, Cora and Hawkeye is a better sell for me in the "in love" category, since they disparage one another in the beginning, bicker, and have the same hair ... all great foundations for a love match!
eilan	Posted - March 19 2005 : 2:40:03 PM I don't absolutely agree!!! Alice WAS in love with Uncas!!!The script clearly says "HER LOVER"...do you know the mean of these 2 words???? It means SHE LOVED HIM!!!! Is not difficult to understand! I'M AND ALWAYS BE A FAN OF UNCAS AND ALICE!!!!
silentthunder	Posted - March 18 2005 : 6:58:15 PM quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman ...and I agree with you completely! As I have said many times now, In The Movie, I saw nothing that would convince me that Alice was in love with Uncas. He was in love with her, yes. But In The Movie... she did not return that love. In the final scenes, she looked at Uncas as someone who could possibly save her. When he died, she slipped into total despair because she felt there was no way she could be saved at that point. WW, I agree with you 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's good to know I'm not the only one who felt this way about the Uncas/Alice story.
Wilderness Woman	Posted - March 18 2005 : 12:24:45 PM ...and I agree with you completely! As I have said many times now, In The Movie, I saw nothing that would convince me that Alice was in love with Uncas. He was in love with her, yes. But In The Movie... she did not return that love. In the final scenes, she looked at Uncas as someone who could possibly save her. When he died, she slipped into total despair because she felt there was no way she could be saved at that point.

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