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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - November 09 2004 : 11:19:15 AM
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1. We wouldn't know otherwise, I guess.
2. So. Now you're back for the Brits being under fire for 7.5 minutes, and the quote says so? Charge, fight, retreat: 7.5 minutes?
3. and 4. So were the Sioux and the Ug tribe of the upper Camelclap River. Don't fight in rain when the bow strings stretch. That's basic, not sophisticated.
In any case, the Russians were not sophisticated enough to make hay out of the LB debacle.
5. The Grand Army was composed of French and virtual slaves and conscripts fighting against their will often enough, and untrusted. Note: here you say one battle: Borodino. Once.
6. Proud civilian. Proud clerk? But what does this mean? Russia didn't participate in a winning battle against the French military without oodles of allies and outnumbering them by a ton.
7. Wait! Now it's twice!
8. They had infantry on three sides. Cavalry. Enemy dehorsed and wounded and disorganized. Bad shooting. Unable to take advantage of this. Unsophisticated. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - April 04 2005 : 4:32:52 PM
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This is a photo of the 'valley of death' of the Light Brigade. You may have to enlarge, but you can see the cannon balls just lying there. Taken within months of the battle, I just read on another site in Slate. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - April 17 2005 : 9:24:22 PM
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To argue and defend a position is the essence of the American way of life. It exemplifies an ideology that separates us from the rest of the world governed by potentates and despots. However, to argue, attack, defame, nit-pick, and generally infuriate the general populace, needlessly, exemplifies a jerk. All things can be over done. It takes a wise man to realize this truism, a fool to ignore it.
However, in defense of jerks (names need not be mention as everyone knows to whom I am referring) can you imagine life without them? Their presence and gasconading is beyond human rationale and understanding but, nevertheless, an important part of the human experience. Our particular "Grinch" is, admittedly, difficult to digest, but still necessary. His desire to lead the conversation in all areas often leads him to comment on items he knows absolutely nothing about; then how the comedy spews forth.
After all, such wisdom and expertise from a single individual has not occurred in a little over 2,000 years. It behooves us to accept and cherish the great "thinker" who is among us. |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on April 17 2005 9:35:03 PM |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - April 18 2005 : 12:07:05 PM
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Not sure who you're referring to, or why, but to imply that if you somehow don't understand something only a deity or son of deity could is pretty vain and silly. What you apparently consider impossible is what most consider high school level. For a claimed soldier, cop, and especially teacher that's an incriminating position. Further, Wiggs, reading you trying to sound comfortable in grammar and vocabulary with which you're at sea is unsettling. Recall how many times you utterly misunderstood what you yourself had posted?
In any event, the photo shows lots of cannonballs suggesting heavy fire which doesn't comply with the claimed level of Russian cannon fire. Hate to break tradition and be on topic, but there you go. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
Edited by - Dark Cloud on April 18 2005 12:08:54 PM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - April 18 2005 : 6:31:26 PM
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In any event, the photo shows lots of cannonballs suggesting heavy fire which doesn't comply with the claimed level of Russian cannon fire. Hate to break tradition and be on topic, but there you go.
Did you ever see those civil war photos with dead rebels proped up to make it look like auhentic.Perhaps an imaginative photographer rolled a few balls into position for effect.Be that as it may it is estimated that 190 rounds were fired.But all were not solid as the batteries were mixed 12 pounder guns and howitzers.The howitzers only fired shells and the 12 pounders switched to canister for the last volley.So at a guess I would say that about 100 solid rounds lay around the valley of death for your photographer to amuse himself with. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - April 18 2005 : 7:21:42 PM
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But the point is that he didn't arrange them, and there's about fifty in a very small area. He just had a retrospective and SLATE covered it and I cannot recall his name except he was Victoria's photographer and if not the first, one of the first war photographers, died young, etc. His were the ones of the Crimean War that are more or less 'famous.' It doesn't prove anything, but all that cannon issue lying in close proximity would suggest, anyway, a lot more firing than has been suggested.
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Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - April 18 2005 : 8:22:55 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Not sure who you're referring to, or why, but to imply that if you somehow don't understand something only a deity or son of deity could is pretty vain and silly. What you apparently consider impossible is what most consider high school level. For a claimed soldier, cop, and especially teacher that's an incriminating position. Further, Wiggs, reading you trying to sound comfortable in grammar and vocabulary with which you're at sea is unsettling. Recall how many times you utterly misunderstood what you yourself had posted?
I am utterly and completely devastated. Did you think that I was referring to you? Forsooth D.c., my admiration for your informative and all encompassing threads is exceeded only by your in-depth ability to spread joy and mirth whenever you post.
The individual I was referring to is the antithesis of you. While you are warm and understanding, the jerk I was referring to is an idiot and pompous ass. While you seek to understand the underlining realities of this battle, the jerk I referred to is an Idiot-Savant determined to impress the universe with his arm-chair generalship. While you have continuously offered genuine information that enables all of us to achieve a better understanding of this famous battle, the jerk I referred to does nothing but incite, anger, and encourage participants to exit stage left. While you assiduously study your facts prior to posting informative information, the jerk I was referring to has not read a complete book in his life, let alone a source of information regarding this battle.
No D.c., I was not referring to you. I, therefore, forgive your harsh statements regarding my tenure as a Police officer, member of the U.S. Air Force, and a teacher in the great state of Oklahoma. I know you did not mean to say what you said. Once before I publicly posted my home telephone number and the number of the Prince George's County Police Department to you. Somehow, that entire thread was erased. Perhaps that was a wise decision by whomever was responsible to make such a decision.
However, I have good news. If you will contact 301-336-8800 and asked for the Prince George's County Police Academy they can verify my tenure there. Just mention my name. As for my personal number, just "PM" me my friend, I will gladly give it to you again.
In conclusion, I truly hope that you can appreciated my deep respect for you and my insatiable desire to meet with you, Mano Y Mano, just one time...Money is no object! |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - April 19 2005 : 09:28:29 AM
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DC
3 Russian batteries engaged the Brigade.The fire of the flanking batteries would have been dispersed over a wide area as the guns were swung through an aiming arc in order to engage the target as it moved across its front.Only the guns at the end of the valley did not have to alter their aim and the fall of solid shot from these guns would have ended up in or about the same area.
This battery had 8 guns 4 of which were howitzers.This means that the solid shot in your photo came from 4 guns.It is estimated that the battery fired 88 rounds.11 rounds per gun.The last 3 volleys were canister.That means that this battery fired 32 rounds of solid.Yet you count 50.
I don't think a picture of a valley showing a few scattered rounds of solid shot would have brought home to the Victorians the intensity of the barrage the Brigade had ridden through.So for a little effect you get a few troopers from the brigade [who want to be seen as heros]to gather up a few extra for a good snap to empress the folks back home. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - April 19 2005 : 1:54:10 PM
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| I had a look at the picture.The valley looks too narrow to be the one at Balaklava.And it shows dozens of solid shot coming to rest within inches of each other.Looks very dodgy to me. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - April 19 2005 : 5:42:34 PM
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| I sometimes watch battles of WW2 on the discovery channel.I find that they will take newsreel footage of German troops advancing in France and use it to illustrate an advance in Russia.Perhaps your Victorian photographer was taking similar liberties. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - April 19 2005 : 7:14:49 PM
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| Given that photo was famous (weren't a lot of them to choose between in 1856), you'd think some mention of fakery would have appeared, no? Nothing. He wasn't driven for cash or fame, being born rich and relatively well known. I never heard of the guy till Slate ran a piece on him and a photo exhibition of his work. Could be, but I don't think that sort of stuff happened till our Civil War when there were photographers in competition. I think when this guy left the Crimea, another arrived. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - April 21 2005 : 02:39:51 AM
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I have seen that photo for years labeled as "after the charge of the Light Brigade" and have not questioned it.
However, considering the way that Sullivan and Brady posed bodies to enhance the impact of their photos, your question is legitimate; especially since the photographers were in competiion with other London newspapers.
Billy |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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The Charge of the Lght Brigade
