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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
 Posted - June 01 2004 : 1:42:38 PM
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D.C. -- what exactly is this guy looking for? A friend of mine is an expert on the weapons used at the LBH (he owns some of them), but before I refer to him I'd like to know what to ask him.
BTW -- did I ever tell you I worked at KGNU? (You were probably in diapers when I did) hehe
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Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - June 01 2004 : 2:35:21 PM
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Bhist:
I have no more clue than you do what Hans wants. He doesn't want to sell it, he says. I guess he's offering photos or something. I'm not sure what to make of it, nor how he found me and not this site. I've had no contact other than what's on the forum. He seems on the up, and has his address in Switzerland. I imagine his bonafides would be easy to establish.
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Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 07:22:05 AM
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Hi Bhist
While engaged in some long range sniper fire with DC I checked a book on weapons and equipment of the Feds in the civil war.I was very disappointed that it only mentioned the range of one weapon.
Any info on the range and accuracy of the weapons used at the LBH?
did I ever tell you I worked at KGNU? (You were probably in diapers when I did) hehe
That must make you about 100 because if DC can remember "Lulu and Tubby" comics he's no spring chicken himself.
Regards
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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dave
Captain
Australia
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 11:53:59 AM
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The 1873 Springfield rifle had a maximum range of slightly under 2500 yards using .45-70-405 ammunition. Obviously effective range is considerably shorter.
See
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/sandyhook.htm
The effective range of the 1873 carbine (.45-55) is claimed to be about 400 yards, with a maximum range of over 1000 yards (I'd imagine around 1200 or 1300 yards).
See
http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/redriver/weapons.html
The Colt SAA is supposed to have carried a fair punch up to 60 yards, with the velocity dropping off sharply at longer ranges
Also see
http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/redriver/weapons.html
I've seen a claim for a maximum range of 1000 yards for a Henry (.44-25). I think the source was a book, so no link, sorry. I have my doubts. The claim was made on some promotional material for the Winchester company if my memory serves me correctly.
The .56-56 Spencer carbine wasn't considered to be much good over 200 yards, if you choose to believe this webpage
http://www.civilwarguns.com/9410b.html |
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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 11:57:18 AM
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Dave beat me to it. I couldn't find the thread where I posted that Red River War link, but I had posted it to discuss the range and accuracy of particular weapons. Here's a link he didn't include, that I believe has also been posted here at times:
http://www.westernerspublications.ltd.uk/CAGB%20Guns%20at%20the%20LBH.htm |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 12:32:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Didn't the 7th use rifle cartridges in the carbines?
Correction: Just checked the Nat'l Geographic, that wasn't where I read .45/70. It actually lists .45/55, so I don't know where I go the impression early on that .45/70 was the round for the Springfield. Maybe Son of the Morning Star, which was one of the first books I read after the Nat'l Geographic, and came out well before the 1984 and on excavations...
Its one of those things that's really confusing. Some officers said they had .45/70 rounds, some said .45/55. I've also read that they might have had a mix, and that the .45/70 was reduced to a .45/55 due to the carbine's inability to handle the 70 grain charge over time. Can someone shed the light on this? Its one of those things that I've read so many things on and I could look it up, but I'd have to look in a million books (I wouldn't know where to start, unlike some topics where I remember EXACTLY where to find certain info). In the Nat'l Geographic, all of Fox's and Scott's books, etc, point to .45/55 rounds and cases found, which would obviously point to that being the charge used in the Springfield carbine.
I think a lot of the confusion stems from the lack of knowledge that seemed to exist, at a high level, of the switch from .45/70 to .45/55.
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I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
Edited by - El Crab on June 02 2004 12:44:25 PM |
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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 12:35:35 PM
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"One potential reason for these failings in the Springfields at the Little Bighorn, could be that the 7th Cavalry had been issued a number of faulty weapons that had been returned by other units. Varnum (in Graham p347) claims that his and probably Custer’s men took the Rifle 70 grain ammunition and not the carbine 55 grain. Could this more powerful rifle round have been a contributing factor in the number of jams that occurred? The oral evidence of gun failures markedly conflicts with the archaeological analysis, which also shows that the .45-55 round was issued. Whatever the case, the complaints about the weapons after the battle show a distinct lack of confidence by the troopers in their main weapon, the Springfield carbine, during the battle."
http://www.westernerspublications.ltd.uk/CAGB%20Guns%20at%20the%20LBH.htm (the same link from above) |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 1:47:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
Hi Bhist
While engaged in some long range sniper fire with DC I checked a book on weapons and equipment of the Feds in the civil war.I was very disappointed that it only mentioned the range of one weapon.
Any info on the range and accuracy of the weapons used at the LBH?
did I ever tell you I worked at KGNU? (You were probably in diapers when I did) hehe
That must make you about 100 because if DC can remember "Lulu and Tubby" comics he's no spring chicken himself.
Regards
Looks like Dave did an excellent job in answering your question about the weapons at the LBH.
However, I've always understood that the repeater only had a range of accurate fire within 150 yards. |
Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - June 02 2004 : 2:03:27 PM
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Excellent job by all.What a pleasant board.
Cheers |
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Topic |
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battle revolver
