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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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 Posted - January 16 2003 : 6:07:05 PM
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Now I'm the one who feels out of place!
But I have a possibly very stupid question for Sarj (or perhaps his cousin Many Flags who was kind enough to give me an answer about a regimental flag a while back), and I thought this was the best forum to put it in.
On the Muskets of the Crown website, on the second page of Saratoga photos, there is a very nice photo of the 42nd Grenadiers marching. In the photo, many of the men are walking with their arms folded over their muskets and across their chests. So the stupid question-of-the-week is: Were they just cold, or does this mean something? Was it perhaps after the Battle of Bemis Heights... and they were showing an attitude of defeat?
See... I told you it was stupid! Stop laughing! <Blush>
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
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September 11 2002
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 Posted - January 16 2003 : 6:50:44 PM
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| Wilderness Woman....really, no questions are stupid and this is a very good question, because unless you are an 18th century reenacting soldier, esp. British, you would not know. In drill, this is the "support" position. The men are at the shoulder with their muskets and as they march, the musket can get cumbersome, cramps can develop in arms, it can become uncomfortable (a musket is about 9 1/2 pounds, with bayonet add another pound and it becomes unwieldly)....so the Sjt. (that's me) or sometimes a Cpl. will give the command to "support your firelocks". When marching, it is a two armed support and the arms are crossed over the musket with the cock of the lock (that's not a bird!!) resting on the left forearm. It helps to relieve the uncomfort for a bit. When standing in ranks, the "support" is one armed, left arm only (two armed on march because you are moving). There are some other changes that can be made...."advance your firelock", "trail your firelock", "slope your firelock" (in which the next command to go back to the shoulder is "erect your firelock" which I enjoy giving!!)...and so on. We British just don't look pretty, there is a lot to know....and the Sjt. (that's me) is the drillmaster, the expert at moving the troops, forming them up, etc., etc. As in the modern army, the Sjt. is very important. I take care of my men....really, I do!! But, I also must keep the higher officers happy.....a really tough job at times. I must anticipate what they will want of the men, so I am ready to give the command. A Sjt. is always thinking cause he's stuck between the rank 'n file and the officers! Ok, a very long explanation. But, it's meant to show that we take our "hobby" very seriously AND we aren't just a bunch of pretty boys!! Thanks for listenin'!! Pax Aye!! Sjt. Malcolm MacWm., 77th Grenadiers |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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 Posted - January 16 2003 : 8:47:36 PM
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Thank you, Sarj! That was very interesting and you are very kind.
I had to go back and look at that photo again... actually, I like any excuse to go back and look at all of those photos because they are all so beautiful! Wow. I'll bet Mrs. Gable's photos are residing on more than a few desktops... mine included. In fact, I copied them all to my harddrive and have printed them all out, and sent them to my 84 year old father out in Oregon. He is interested in all of this as well. (I didn't think Mrs. Gable would mind, since I'm not using them for any commercial gain.)
I can see how using your arms to help support the musket would relieve cramping muscles. I would think marching becomes a bit awkward because you can't swing your arms, but I understand that this posture would only be for a short while til the muscles uncramp.
I am learning more and more of the seriousness of this hobby/way of life, and that there is a lot to know! Oh...and I am sorry about the "attitude of defeat" thing. I almost went back and edited that out, because I was concerned that would be taken as a jab or an insult. 'Twasn't meant that way at all!
Thanks again! Ciao. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
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September 11 2002
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Posted - January 17 2003 : 04:26:53 AM
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| Aye, a Grenadier never has an "attitude of defeat".....and a Highlander would rather bite off his own ear (that's a sight!!) than to be defeated. So, our regiment is doubly cursed to never say "defeat"!! We have a lot of stories during reenactments when other units are surrendering or marching off the field, we Highland Grenadiers fix bayonets and continue to go at it!! Once at an event, we were commanded by an "English" officer to fall back, and our own dear Capt. Croy gave him such a look, then we all moved forward, jumped a fence and died gloriously!! Ahhh, the joys of being a Highland Grenadier!! Pax Aye! Sjt. MacWm. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - January 17 2003 : 08:35:37 AM
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Of course! Of course! I really should have known, as I have a bit of Highlander blood in my veins, as well. I can lay claim to wearing the Ancient and Honourable Hay Tartan, thanks to my maternal grandfather, and the skirl o' the pipes really gets my blood moving!
So, with that... I shall make a dignified retreat, and leave the field to you, Sarj...
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
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September 11 2002
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Posted - January 17 2003 : 1:38:44 PM
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| WW....please do not leave the field. You have asked a question and shown interest where many others do not. I appreciate the chance to educate!! I see that you live in NY...if you lived in PA, you may have been able to watch the new Governor's Inaugural Parade in which the grand 77th Grenadiers will be in...that will be on Jan. 21. 'Twill be cold in a kilt, but we are braugh laddies!! Pax Aye! Malcolm |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - January 17 2003 : 5:33:54 PM
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AYE, Cousin Malcolm......I noticed WW is from Binghamton, home of a very good friend of ours who has been to Heritage Days with us, you know. Perhaps if the 77th,.......or even the 42nd, as it is a Rev War event, too.....would come with my Augusta Regiment to Old Mill Village in New Milford, PA, August 9 and 10, WW could come and see us all. It is only a few miles south of Binghamton, you know. BUT....if your lads cannot make it, she is still welcome to come see us! WW....that's a personal invitation to ya! I know you will enjoy yourself.
http://www.oldmillvillage.com/18thcevent.html
Check it out, and I do hope to see you there, WW! |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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 Posted - January 17 2003 : 6:46:16 PM
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Oh! Gosh. Well... alright then! I shall stay on the field, and will know that I am welcome. (I had thought that perhaps I, as a female and a non-reenactor, would be a bit out of place in the Muster.) Thank you, Sarj, and I will stay alert for more stu.... er... interesting questions to ask you.
And thanks to the both of you for the open invitations to the forth-coming events (and to you Seamus, for the link). It will not be possible to see the parade on the 21st of January. However, I will keep in mind the Old Mill Village event at New Milford in August! It is, indeed, but a hop-skip-and-jump from my home!
My poor, dear husband (who has much Italian blood running in his veins) is quite gracious to accompany me to various events, but I do hesitate to ask too much of him along those lines. I'm afraid I must tell you that at Saratoga he laid on the damp ground and took a nap, of all things, while my brother and I fairly leapt up and down with excitement watching the battle! But, I love him regardless!
So... we shall meet again on The Muster.
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
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September 11 2002
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Posted - January 18 2003 : 04:57:37 AM
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| WW.....so you enjoyed Saratoga....I was there with my brave lads of the 42nd Grenadiers. If you were there on Sunday, you may have noticed two lone kilted Grenadiers scouring the battlefield afterwards. That was myself and Cpl. Black Dick MacGregor looking for his dirk which he had lost (and we never found!!). I know there were a lot of spectators wondering, "What the hell are those Scotsmen doing!!" Today, we are off to New Paltz, NY for the annual British Brigade meeting to plan events for the coming year. It is always a big to-do with reps. from all the British regiments present. Perchance I may see Pvt. Chauncey. He often attends as a rep. for the Rangers. Pax Aye! Malcolm |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - January 18 2003 : 5:26:01 PM
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Yes, my brother and I enjoyed Saratoga very much, indeed! In short, it was magnificent! I know that the 42nd were there, and figured you probably were too, Sarj. I even remember seeing some of your Regiment walking around the Sutler's area. (I think it has something to do with the red and white stockings.)
We were only able to be there on Saturday, unfortunately. I really wanted to see both days' events, but it just was not possible. Our only regret was that the spectators' gallery was so far away. On the one hand, we were able to see the complete width of the field, and had a good impression of the scope of the whole thing... but there were times when the action was taking place in a lower area and part of it was obscured from view. My brother had brought a pretty good pair of binocs., which helped immensely. All of my photos show little tiny specs in the distance, and a whole bunch of white smoke. That is why I was so pleased to find Mrs. Gable's photos on the Muskets of the Crown website. They brought me right down into the thick of it all.
OK. I've thought of something else I would like to know:
"How does a reenactor obtain rank?"
If a man wants to become a reenactor, and approaches a group or Regiment about joining... does he enter as a Private? Or can he say: I want to be a Captain... or a Major... or even a General? If he must enter as a Private... how does he advance in rank?
Ciao. WW
BTW, my brother and I had a particular reason for being so interested in Saratoga 225th, aside from wanting to be a witness to the largest reenactment battle since the bicentennial! Another man in my life, besides the one I talked about on the "Other Military Encounters" forum, was involved in the original Saratoga battles.
He was but a lad of 16, by the name of William Farley. Enlisting in May of 1777, he was a part of Capt. William Ellis' Company, of Col. Alexander Scammel's Regiment, of the 3rd New Hampshire Brigade of the Continental Line. The Battle of Freeman's Farm saw him, and his Regiment, right smack in the thick of the battle. Thankfully, he survived to become my 4th Great-grandfather.
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
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Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 11 2002
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Posted - January 18 2003 : 8:23:00 PM
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| WW....good for you!! A direct ancestor in the thick of things....he probably saw B. Arnold ride the horse across the field, etc, etc....but let's not got there!! We just got back from the British Brigade meeting in New Paltz. I know this is Rev. War we are speaking of, and although much of my first love is F and I (when we do 77th Grens), nothing is better than huge Rev. War events like Saratoga. We will not see another that large for a while...although this year Monmouth should be good. Now, as to your question. Men enter a unit as a private....promotions are then given out according to unit rules (modern policies that the unit comes up with). Some are haphazard, some are straightforward. Ours are very straightforward. Our commander, Capt. Croy, selects his officers every January. Yes, they are always basically the same officers, but if there is an "opening" (if a member gets too old to come out, if he resigns, etc.) then, Capt. Croy picks replacements. I was promoted to Corporal three years ago when one of our corporal's was promoted to sjt. The next year, this same man decided he was a speed bicyclist, not a soldier (much to our chagrin, cause he's a good man), so I was promoted to take his place as sarjent. There is always room for a shuffle here or there, but most times rank stays the same from year to year. There have been cases in some other units when a man may want promoted and he is turned down.....that has happened in our unit a few times. Luckily, we are all good comrades, and we "know our place", that the Captain has the decision....and that's it!! We have great respect for Capt. Croy...he is THE MAN! But, I know of some other units where disgruntled men will leave and form their own units so they can advance themselves immediately. It's not always a bad thing....it's how units evolve and grow, wax and wane...Ok, enough..thanks for the question....Malcolm |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 21 2003 : 08:33:09 AM
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Sjt. Malcolm, I sincerely hope that your bare knees come away from the parade today with no frostbite! Have ye considered wearin' tights? (Just kidding!)
If you wish to share, you could let us all know how the parade and ceremonies went for you and your braugh laddies. And by the way... does braugh mean... brave...? strong... ? ...what? |
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Question for Sjt. Malcolm...
