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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 16 2006
Status: offline
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 Posted - May 10 2009 : 10:22:10 PM
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Personally, I believe that all these political rants on the Mohican Board are the major reason for the huge decline in posts...
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 01:27:32 AM
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"As far as getting off the subject, BW, I find that I much prefer talking about Spanish than politics these days. I have very strong political opinions, but find talking about politics to be very divisive, and rarely are opinions ever swayed. So, let's talk about Spanish and vacations--it's much more fun!"
-Winglo
"Personally, I believe that all these political rants on the Mohican Board are the major reason for the huge decline in posts..."
-Obediah
I totally agree. |
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Bookworm
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 10 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 07:25:29 AM
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| You know, guys, I think you're right. In future I'll put at least as much time and effort into colonial-era-related posts as I do into the other stuff, hopefully more. |
Bookworm
"I've gotten so fascinated with the eighteenth century, I'm going to stay there." -- David McCullough
"Nothing to it, brother." -- Barack Obama |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 09:04:37 AM
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quote:
Obediah said: Personally, I believe that all these political rants on the Mohican Board are the major reason for the huge decline in posts...
No Obi, that is not the reason. I have been a member of this board for several years now, and the amount of posts, and members, ebb and flow throughout the year(s), and for a myriad of reasons. For those who do not like political debate, remember that out of at least twenty-five (25) separate forums on this site, there is no more than one (1), sometimes two (2), forums that have anything to do with politics. So my advice to those who do not like politics, or lack the stomach for open political debate/discourse, is not to 'step into' the Lion's Den. Occasionally the 'In The News' forum ventures into politics, but one can easily avoid those threads which might offend their sensibilities. As I previously noted, there are around two-dozen other forums here that have nothing to do with politics.
To sum it up, I look at it the same way as I do with censorship of television, radio & internet, to wit: if you are 'offended', then get off your behind, and change the channel to something that more meets with your approval. And for those who might say, "Gee Sarge, what about the children?" I ask them why are they not aware of what their kids are watching and/or doing? I have three daughters, and I know that it is not easy, but then again nothing worthwhile ever is. Remember that being a parent extends far beyond post-coital conception, and that the only time 'it takes a village to raise a child' is when said child is sired/bred by the village idiot
YMH&OS,
The Sarge
P.S.- And "Yes" Sus, BW, winglo, et.al, this thread has drifted far off-topic... |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 09:12:04 AM
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I am sort of chuckling right now over Obi's statement.
Obi... you should have been on the boards when TGAT Lainey was still active here. (TGAT stands for "The Great And Terrible"!) That woman can debate ANYBODY right under the table! You new guys ain't seen nothin'!!!!
Right, Rich???
I agree with Sarge. People come and go. People here have gotten mad over issues other than politics, picked up their toys and gone home. It's human nature. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 09:17:42 AM
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quote:
Wilderness Woman added: Obi... you should have been on the boards when TGAT Lainey was still active here. (TGAT stands for "The Great And Terrible"!) That woman can debate ANYBODY right under the table! You new guys ain't seen nothin'!!!!
I agree WW, and I really miss having TGAT around here (especially in 'The Den'). You remember that Lainey and I had more than a few really good 'knock-down, drag-out' debates (I seem to recall you and GG having to referee a few of them as well), and we always both enjoyed the exchange of ideas. She knew how to separate rational thought from emotions, and that made her one of The Lion's Den all-time greats. (and IMHO, she will always be the Queen Lioness of the Den)
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 14 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 09:56:02 AM
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| Any poster can post whatever they want, (within reason of course) by using any one of a number of forums set-up for JUST that purpose. No one is preventing anyone's posts. My Gawd, what a totally miserable world we'd have if we were all on the same page at the same time. (You'd have to stand in line on a bridge just to jump off ... ;)) |
you can keep "The Change" |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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 Posted - May 11 2009 : 3:05:15 PM
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I totally agree guys. Say what you will in as large type as you choose. Say it loud and say it proud. To me though it just seems an odd place to put so much energy into political debate. In a board created ostensibly to celebrate our common love of a movie from 1992, it's subject matter, colonial lifestyle, etc... this type of debate is most welcome if not a little out of place. If someone were truly into heated political debate, if someone truly wanted to go into battle and hone their skills it seems that they might be more challenged and thusly more rewarded by doing such on a board dedicated to political discussion. You might find more people with the stomach for OPEN political debate. It just seems like doing it around here is like shooting fish in a barrel, easy pickins, the little league of political discussion. Why not do so where more people will care what you are talking about and you take the chance of being eviscerated yourselves? It's easy to run rough shod over people that don't care about the debate- challenge yourselves and debate people who care and will put as much heart and energy into it as you are willing to.
By all means continue to debate openly and loudly in the Lion's Den. If you view this as your best place to sound off and engage in verbal battle- please do. Let no one's free speech be quashed here. Just consider your crowd and what you are trying to accomplish.
Let the battles begin!! |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 5:00:12 PM
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quote:
susquesus said: If someone were truly into heated political debate, if someone truly wanted to go into battle and hone their skills it seems that they might be more challenged and thusly more rewarded by doing such on a board dedicated to political discussion. You might find more people with the stomach for OPEN political debate.
And that was why the Lion's Den Forum was created. Sorry, there is no 'kiddie pool' here.
quote:
susquesus then added: It just seems like doing it around here is like shooting fish in a barrel, easy pickins, the little league of political discussion.
Refering to it as the 'Little League' of political discussion is insulting to those of us who actually care to pursue excellence in our debate skills. We may not always reach the target, but we continue to reach-out toward a higher goal. This is one area of the board where the 'lowest common denominator' does not constitute table stakes.
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susquesus followed with: Why not do so where more people will care what you are talking about and you take the chance of being eviscerated yourselves?
That would be here, in this very forum. Did you even read the tagline of this forum? Hint: it uses the words 'Political Debate'.
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susquesus then said: It's easy to run rough shod over people that don't care about the debate-
And would those who truly "don't care about debate-" spend their time in a forum designed specifically for 'Political Debate'?
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susquesus followed with: challenge yourselves and debate people who care and will put as much heart and energy into it as you are willing to.
I do challenge myself, everytime I step into an 'arena' of debate and discourse. I just choose not to 'slow down the train' just because my opponent cannot keep-up. For to do so would cheat all concerned, and would be nothing but another version of 'Outcomes-Based (You add the subject, i.e. Education)', which in and of itself is nothing more than a feel-good exercise that accomplishes nothing of value or merit.
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susquesus continuing: Let no one's free speech be quashed here.
Suprise, we can reach agreement.
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susquesus finished with: Just consider your crowd and what you are trying to accomplish.
May I refer you to my post of today's date, 9:04 AM, Paragraph 1, and there you will find my answer.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge
P.S.- Sus, this thread is still off-topic. Why not contribute your own post on the subject, rather than attempting to triangulate yourself 'above' those who do. And this also goes for anyone else who has 'jumped-in' without first meeting the original goal of the thread. Thank you. |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 5:10:33 PM
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Your stunning point by point rebuttal has once again proven you king of the castle(or shark in the kiddie pool if you please). Huzzah! |
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blackfootblood
Devoted Tribal Member
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 22 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 5:42:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by susquesus
Your stunning point by point rebuttal has once again proven you king of the castle(or shark in the kiddie pool if you please). Huzzah!
I have to agree with Susquesus and also Obi on this one. As this is a colonial message board with many different topics, it always seems that politics get brought up more than enough. It's not a bad thing, don't get me wrong but it may discourage some folks out there to return to this board and post. Especially when things they post about, non-politics related, is getting ignored, over-looked, and even snuffed out by all the politics brought up by others. And more so it might upset some people that when they do tread the dark waters of the lion's den, that what they post about is be shredded and torn apart and analyze to a point that is so ridiculous. And all they are doing is just posting their opinion about something they feel. Sorry this is off topic, I know that irritates some folks! |
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!"
"Live well, love much, laugh often!" |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 5:43:19 PM
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quote:
susquesus said: Your stunning point by point rebuttal has once again proven you king of the castle(or shark in the kiddie pool if you please). Huzzah!
And once again you failed to add to the original debate in this thread. Trust me Sus, feigning victimhood does not become you, since I know you can do better. We have crossed swords before, and I feel that you are a worthy opponent.
Now how about adding your own contribution to the original thread, instead of wasting your time by blaming others who do contribute.
quote:
blackfootblood added: As this is a colonial message board with many different topics, it always seems that politics get brought up more than enough.
As I noted above, this is only one (1) forum out of more than two-dozen. If you feel that politics get excessively brought up outside of this forum, then you should report it to one of the moderators for the respective forum.
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blackfootblood added: Especially when things they post about, non-politics related, is getting ignored, over-looked, and even snuffed out by all the politics brought up by others.
Once again, if it happens outside of this forum, then report it to the moderator of that forum. As for the content of other forums that might be getting 'overlooked' because of the activity here, that is no fault of those who are engaged in debate, in its proper forum.
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blackfootblood then noted: And more so it might upset some people that when they do tread the dark waters of the lion's den, that what they post about is be shredded and torn apart and analyze to a point that is so ridiculous.
I am one of the moderators in this forum (even though the drop-down menu hadn't been updated in quite a while), so please tell me where the 'ridiculous' analyzation is. If it is a case of breaking-down an argument into bullet-points, and addressing each one in-turn; then I am sorry but there is nothing ridiculous about that.
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blackfootblood finished with: And all they are doing is just posting their opinion about something they feel.
That is all well and fine, but as I noted that this is a place for debate, and that exercise by its very nature is meant to be two-sided. I could very well say that I 'feel' the moon is made out of green cheese, but it does not make it true, and for someone to point that out to me in a forum meant for debate would not make them 'unfair' either.
In closing: Wilderness Woman was very correct in her observations on how tame things in 'The Den' are now, and she was spot-on with her comment, "You new guys ain't seen nothin'!!!"
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 5:47:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by susquesus
Your stunning point by point rebuttal has once again proven you king of the castle(or shark in the kiddie pool if you please). Huzzah!
I have to agree with Susquesus and also Obi on this one. As this is a colonial message board with many different topics, it always seems that politics get brought up more than enough. It's not a bad thing, don't get me wrong but it may discourage some folks out there to return to this board and post. Especially when things they post about, non-politics related, is getting ignored, over-looked, and even snuffed out by all the politics brought up by others. And more so it might upset some people that when they do tread the dark waters of the lion's den, that what they post about is be shredded and torn apart and analyze to a point that is so ridiculous. And all they are doing is just posting their opinion about something they feel. Sorry this is off topic, I know that irritates some folks!
-blackfootblood
thanks for saying so. and treading the dark waters. hope you don't get gobbled up. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - May 11 2009 : 6:28:54 PM
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This is an issue brought up many, many times. Ironically, those whose idea it first was - Lainey, Adele, Ilse, maybe a few others - have long since departed. I was so-so, at best, on the idea. However, I understood. Originally, there was a very tight-knit group here frequenting these forums. Politics were BANNED! Really! But, there's only so much one can discuss Last of the Mohicans, so, the "allowed" topics were expanded to cover other areas, eventually leading to the taboos of politics and religion. I guess my feeling now is let the chips fall where they may.
I do want to add, in response to Obi, that even in the beginning, with no politics allowed, people left this board for one reason or another. People get mad. It ebbs and flows as far as the number of posts and community activity ...
Anyway, here are links to a few related threads. Please, if you wish to continue this discussion, do so in one of them.
Thanks ...
Yay or Nay ... The Life of the Lion's Den [poll]
Rebellion in the Lion's Den
The Lion's Den Etiquette
Back to Obama's first 100 Days! |
Rich
Mohican Press
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 14 2005
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Posted - May 11 2009 : 7:45:33 PM
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| Good links Rich, - I remember most as a matter of fact. Geez, does time fly, ... |
you can keep "The Change" |
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blackfootblood
Devoted Tribal Member
USA
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May 22 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 09:55:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
That is all well and fine, but as I noted that this is a place for debate.....
And in that case, one day you will look around and realize you are only debating yourself.
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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!"
"Live well, love much, laugh often!" |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 10:34:47 AM
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quote:
blackfootblood said: And in that case, one day you will look around and realize you are only debating yourself.
And so you would have me believe...
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 13 2007
Status: offline
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 3:50:41 PM
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| It looks like this debate is no longer about politics but about whether or not people should debate! |
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winglo
Deerslayer
USA
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July 13 2007
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 14 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - May 12 2009 : 4:03:47 PM
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| Don't let those five stars go to your head. ;) |
you can keep "The Change" |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 16 2006
Status: offline
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - May 13 2009 : 11:19:41 AM
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quote:
winglo noted: It looks like this debate is no longer about politics but about whether or not people should debate!
Winglo, that has always been standard tactic of those on the Marxist-Left, since they have never been able to validate, bolster or defend their beliefs through the use of fact-based, logical debate in an open forum. That is why a great many of these slugs find their way into Academia, Media and Law, since a coordinated attack of those three entities usually is enough to sway the opinion of the unwashed masses; the same leeches who are more concerned about getting handouts from 'Big Brother' (or acquiring a new-found 'civil right' by assuming some form of victimhood status) than anything 'ridiculous' like the facts. Remember the words of that great marxist, Vladimir Lenin, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
For the rest of us, who can think, act and support ourselves independently, the Cultural-Marxists must either deflect from the subject and/or silence any form of opposition/debate through either the 'selective' reporting of the 'mainstream' media, or by simply having the politicians 'close' the arena with such tools as censorship of select media, 'hate speech' laws, and bureaucratic meddling. Of course this 'iron fist' is concealed within a velvet glove by using such phrases as 'setting a new tone', 'ensuring fairness of outcomes', etc., ad nauseum.
A very good example of this tactic was the original 'Fairness Doctrine' (Before 1949, it was known by its less-famous name, the Mayflower Doctrine), which was created to silence any opposition to that most celebrated member of the Cultural-Marxist pantheon, FDR. And now with these narcissitic-adolescents having a firm hold on two of the three branches of government, we once again hear rumblings of a 'Fairness Doctrine II', through the guise of such canards as 'Community Advisory Boards'.
Sidenote: Anytime this bunch uses the word 'community' in anything they are trying to foist upon us, just remember that they are not talking about the tax-paying, wealth-producing, stakeholders of our culture!
To sum it up, and to address your point, whenever you hear a debate on "whether or not to debate", it is the 'Lepers Bell' of approaching 'Looters' (as Ayn Rand described Cultural-Marxists, in her timeless work, Atlas Shrugged)
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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The Value of "Debate"
