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raindrops
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 Posted - June 14 2006 : 11:57:07 AM
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Why do you think Chingachgook and his sons decided to help Munro sisters and Duncan when they were first attacked by Magua and his people? Why did they - being Indian (Hawkeye regarded himself an Indian too) - turn against the Hurons and saved the English? What was the relationship between them and the Hurons before and after they stood in the way of Magua's revenge?
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Lurking Huron9663
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Posted - June 14 2006 : 9:23:34 PM
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| Hawkeye considered himself a Mohican. There were differences. |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 15 2006 : 07:20:06 AM
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| i thought about that before to.i cant really see why they would.how would they be able to tell it was magua from a few tracks if they did know him from before?mabey they had saw the line of brittish before and then came across the war party and tracked it lol because thye saw it was heading that way.but three against 20?still seemed pretty risky.who knows mabey that was a part thet needed more detail!thanks |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:06:27 PM
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| Yes, we can all understand why Nathaniel wanted to help them after he fell in love with Cora but at the beginning I guess they just got curious. Firstly they saw the British tracks and then they saw that they were being followed by the war party of Hurons. They wanted to see what would take place or perhaps warn the British that they were being followed if they could catch up to them first before Magua's band did. I wonder too if they knew Magua before all of these events took place. I don't think so as Nathaniel said something like "why would that huron, referring to Magua, want to kill that girl" or something like that, not exact wording I know. They soon got to know Magua alright didn't they. |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:15:05 PM
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I guess mohican people long hated hurons (at least that's what we could learn from the book), so they found tracks and decided to check whether there was possibility to gain some scalps of their enemies. May be at first their intention was to kill a few hurons rather then to help englishmen.
Or maybe it was a matter of dignity - to help defenceless women with only one able man. So they saw this injustice was about to happen and figured they could interfere and give a hand.
I myself suppose it was the first. |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:22:04 PM
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| but how would they have known it was hurons by the tracks?i still cant figure out how they knew it was ottawas who attacked the cabin.most all the tribes in the east wore center seam mocs.and alot walked the same way too.so i dont see how they would have known becuase the ottawas were near detroit in the great lakes.i dont know if the mohicans and hurons were enemies or not.but i dont think they were.the iroquois for the most part kept the hurons under control and in check for a long time if i remember right.who knows?thanks |
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MeggieD
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:28:04 PM
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| I believe the nations could be identified by how they made and adorned their arrows, so possibly arrows were found at the Cameron's.... |
Uncas: "some food" |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:29:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zinvor
I guess mohican people long hated hurons (at least that's what we could learn from the book), so they found tracks and decided to check whether there was possibility to gain some scalps of their enemies.
I don't think Nathaniel, Uncas or Chingy would have tracked them just to get scalps and they would have avoided any confrontation if at all possible. They were more curious to see what was going to happen since if was obvious that the British were being followed by the war party. Guess they wanted to observe and help out if possible and if their help was needed. |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:34:54 PM
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i think 3 agaist 20 was pretty risky plan,in real life it would have been their scalps taken lol.
arrows possibly,im not sure if they would have gotten them to use again or not,that may have been due to spiritual stuff or that the arrow broke.but i didnt see any bows in the movie.i also think they may have shown us the arrow instead of the tracks.just my opinion.thanks |
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MeggieD
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:37:15 PM
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| this is true.....You're right, there is a lack of bows in this movie which I think might be another historical flaw....In Broken Chain which occurs at the same time the Mohawks used both rifles and bows equally. |
Uncas: "some food" |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 3:41:08 PM
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I don't really understand how one footprint can say so much to them but probably it could. As for the book there are more detailed information about reading the trails. after all we're not "wood people", neither are the film makers i guess.
I believe there could be some other signs too. Footprints were all WE saw but there could have been some other ways to know who it was. |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 4:29:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nekutmeqwanoc
i dont know if the mohicans and hurons were enemies or not.but i dont think they were.the iroquois for the most part kept the hurons under control and in check for a long time if i remember right.who knows?thanks
I think that in the movie they are enemies, at least three main heroes. because in the huron village Hawkeye says that his death is a great honor for the hurons. I guess it implies they knew him well. but that doesn't mean Magua also necessarily did. |
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raindrops
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Posted - June 16 2006 : 9:31:29 PM
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Thank you all for your answers.
I do wonder what the relationship between Mohicans and Hurons was in general - hostile or neutral (I don't think it was friendly). If they were enemies in the book, that could explain quite a lot about the story.
Even if Hurons didn't regard Chingy, Hawkeye and Uncas as enemies before they disturbed Magua's revenge plan, they probably did after that. If I'm not mistaken our three heroes killed some of the Hurons, while rescuing Munro sisters, and that should be enough for Magua's Hurons to label them as enemies.
After that all that Magua's people and Chingy & sons did was fight and kill (or try to kill) each other, although Magua's main target was different.
Considering this, I find it a little surprising that when Hawkeye went to Hurons' village, they tried to provoke him into a fight, some of them hit him hard, but they did not kill him. Sachem seemed to listen and pay attention to what Hawkeye had to say and Magua did not protest.
As for the reason they helped Cora, Alice and Duncan, I would say they were just being heroes helping "damsels in distress".. |
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Irishgirl
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Posted - June 20 2006 : 11:02:29 AM
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| Personally I love that aspect of the movie, the three heroes helping the "damsels in distress". That plays well with us women unless of course you are some hardcore feminist and are disgusted by that macho stuff and helpless women. I love movies like that where the big strong and handsome guy helps the female out of a sticky situation. |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 21 2006 : 06:59:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Irishgirl
Personally I love that aspect of the movie, the three heroes helping the "damsels in distress". That plays well with us women unless of course you are some hardcore feminist and are disgusted by that macho stuff and helpless women. I love movies like that where the big strong and handsome guy helps the female out of a sticky situation.
This kind of scenes usually make me laugh but this one doesn't. I think it is done very well.
As for the Hawkeye I believe he was a good and well-known warrior among Indians and Hurons knew him long before that. Probably that explains respect shown by Sachem. |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 21 2006 : 07:07:19 AM
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| well he was known as the long rifle.he said it to them and his death was a great honor to the.so mabey they did know him before! |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 21 2006 : 07:11:22 AM
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| that's what i'm saying. they wouldn't miss a chance to kill a couple of hurons |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 21 2006 : 10:45:44 PM
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| kill a couple of hurons,but 3 on 20?sounds like they would take a few hurons with them before they were killed. |
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LeyLana1462
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Posted - June 22 2006 : 09:49:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MeggieD
I believe the nations could be identified by how they made and adorned their arrows, so possibly arrows were found at the Cameron's....
From what I've read they also wore different 'shoes'. but I thought they said it was the French 'Le Franc`e' it sounds like  |
They are all there, but one.
I, Chingachgook, Last of the Mohicans. |
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nekutmeqwanoc
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Posted - June 22 2006 : 2:43:48 PM
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| i dont see how they could tell it by the foot prints.at that time most shoes and all the mocs at that part of the frontier were the same pretty much. |
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zinvor
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Posted - June 24 2006 : 08:16:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nekutmeqwanoc
i dont see how they could tell it by the foot prints.at that time most shoes and all the mocs at that part of the frontier were the same pretty much.
Me too. Even in the book Nathaniel had to look at the mocs' ornament to identify the tribe. |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - June 24 2006 : 11:55:21 AM
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A couple things...
They would have recognized a huron war party upon sight - most native tribes recognized war-paint patterns and bead designs on clothing.
When Nathaniel asked why the huron leader (Who by chance was adorned as a war-cheif would have been, so therefore his status was known). So thus the identity of the war party was discovered, Huron.
Later at the fort when Col. Monroe asked what happened the Mohicans were present to catch that a spy by the name of 'Magua - led us into it'so quote the lying Duncan!
The rescue of Cora and Alice, well obviously the two hot sons fell in love with the two daughters of Munroe. In native cultures women were highly revered since they could bring forth life. A man who had no woman was worthless and any man in love with a woman would die to protect her.
Yes, the huron and the mohicans were not the best of friends, since the huron were rather savage in war acts. The mohicans could be tough when needed but over all just wanted to be left alone. So siding with the huron, as Nathaniel quoted, have greed for more land than they would ever use.
Sadly, Magua's shame as a war leader too obsessed with becoming stronger than the whites was declared to never have walked the path of the huron (A little too blood thirsty, maybe?)
Laylana1462 - right on the nose, boots from different areas of europe were different. Being natives and expert trackers during the wars of America they would differinciate who was who, the Ottowa and the French were good buds. As were the huron. Oh and by the way, it's Les Francais.
This is a really cool topic guys! If you're wondering I study history A LOT, especially Native History. One day I'll be a historian!
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raindrops
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Posted - June 24 2006 : 9:39:44 PM
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Wow, Light of the Moon. What an informative post! Thank you. |
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Chingachgook and sons versus the Hurons
