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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2003
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - August 23 2004 : 5:04:28 PM
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Very nicely done, Young-un! You have made a valid point: that ordinary men can become heroes by doing extraordinary things. And sometimes the legends that grow out of their deeds make us forget that they were, indeed, just "common" people.
Very nice, indeed. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
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July 17 2003
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 17 2005 : 9:38:58 PM
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| Wade, thank you for page. You have answered so many of the questions that I have pondered about regarding this battle. Fantastic job! |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
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July 17 2003
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 18 2005 : 7:42:15 PM
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| Wade, I was mesmerized by Thorton's portrayal of Crockett. This is astounding to me because I have never been a fan of his. Somehow, I believe, that he captured the essence of the "common man" who transcends mortality and, for a brief period, becomes immortal. I swear it was almost like I was viewing the actual Crockett bound and on his knees before Santa Anna. Faced with imminent death, he chose to shout in a defiant cry when others would have begged for mercy. I realize there is no way to determine exactly what happened. I bow to your expertise and ask, how close was Thornton to the actual Crockett? |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2003
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Posted - January 18 2005 : 11:12:11 PM
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Try reading "The Narrative of the Life of David Crockett" which he wrote himself. You can find it on amazon.com and will probably have an introduction written by historian Paul Hutton. It's a great look into the real Crockett.
Thornton portrayed Crockett well, but I did not agree with everything. Like, I don't believe Crockett was as "afraid" as he was shown to be. He knew of his popularity and he knew of the approaching Mexican army. He simply was a man cornered by his legacy. Plus, The execution theory is just that, a theory. It's based off of the Dela Pena diary, which is questioned today to be a forgery, and other small accounts that mention an old man by the name of "Kwokey","Cochran", or "Croquet" having been executed with 5 to 7 others. But I myself believe Crockett died fighting. Thornton is my favorite Crockett to date though and I really enjoyed the film.
~Wade |
www.alamosentry.com
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 19 2005 : 9:54:12 PM
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Wade, thank you sir. I will certainly follow your advice regarding the "narrative" of Crockett. Also, thank you so much for the information regarding the Pena diary. You have opened a whole new world for me. Once again, thanks.
Joe |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
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July 17 2003
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Posted - January 19 2005 : 11:37:17 PM
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| No problem at all Joe. I'm glad to discuss it. For another great and interesting read, try to check out William C. Davis's "Three Roads to the Alamo" which follows the lives of Bowie, Travis, and Crockett up to their deaths at the Alamo. |
www.alamosentry.com
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James1836
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 6:41:49 PM
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| The question of how David Crocket died at the Alamo is a mystery which will never be answered. It is interesting to note that the weapon Crocket went down fighting with was most likely an India Pattern Brown Bess Musket 1809c. Each man at the Alamo would have had at least one or two these Muskets at his station. These were the Muskets taken from General Cos at the Battle of Bexar. The Brown Bess Muskets with bayonets were the perfect close in weapon. The Mexican attack at night was made to avoid any long range action against the rifles of the Alamo Defenders. Recently, an India Pattern Brown Bess Musket has been found with the initials of "JL" and has been traced to the signature of James Lathem who was a contract freight carrier for the first Arsenal of the Republic of Texas at West Bernard Station in present day Wharton County, Texas. He hauled most of the weapons taken off of the Battlefield of San Jacinto to the new Houston Arsenal. Since the Matamoros and Toluca Battalions were at San Jacinto and were also in the Alamo assault, it is possible this Musket was in both Battles. Information on this Musket will soon be posted at Web site www.freedomdocuments.com. |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 8:55:14 PM
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When I read of the exploits of Crockett, Bowie, and Travis, I am spellbound by accounts of their courage and willingness to die for a just cause. I have also read comments where it is alleged that the defenders were greedy exploiters of land. Is that possible. Men who die for a just cause stand above greed and avarice, do they not.
James, I visited the Alamo some five years ago. My memory is faulty but, did they not have "ole Betsy" there. Is it true that Crockett almost ended the whole affair when he aimed at General Santa Anna and almost hit him? How did Travis die? I guess I have a whole lot of questions but, this is the first forum I have ever run across where so much knowledge about the battle is available. Thank you both so very much. P.S., is it true that there have been reports of Ghosts who still reside at the Alamo? |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2003
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Posted - January 20 2005 : 9:57:44 PM
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The Old Betsy wasn't with Crockett at the Alamo and it currently resides in Tennessee.
Travis was one of the first to die in battle and his slave Joe, who was one of the only male survivors of the Alamo battle, witnessed his death. Travis fired both rounds from his double barreled shotgun and was suddenly shot in the head and died instantly.
The Crockett shooting the Santa Anna attempt is just fiction, although I believe there was an old account where defender Micajah Autry was the one to take the shot. But there's no other account to support this. It's most a work of fiction.
Feel free to join my Alamo messageboard [url=http://alamosentry.proboards24.com/index.cgi]Alamo Sentry[/url]. Almost all the information you want is there. |
www.alamosentry.com
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James1836
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 17 2005
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Posted - January 21 2005 : 5:26:01 PM
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| The rifle or rifles that David Crocket had at the Alamo is a another mystery that will never be solved. All of the weapons that the Defenders had have all vanished. No doubt the Mexican Army gathered them up after the Battle and most were taken back to Mexico when the Mexican Army retired from San Antonio after the San Jacinto Battle. The Alamo currently does not display a known hand held firearm that was in the Battle from either side. The discovery of the India Pattern Brown Bess Musket with the initial "JL" on the left handside of the wood stock may be the only hand held firing weapon that has been found that could have been in the assault of the Alamo. In a few weeks, photographs of this Musket will be posted on Web site www.freedomdocuments.com along with the story of the research on its history. The Musket will be shown in detailed shots taken by Moore Archaeology and it will also be shown in full battlefield dress with bayonet, white sling and mounted flint. This Musket could have fired the shot that brought Travis down at the North wall or played a part in the death of David Crocket. |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
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Posted - January 21 2005 : 8:15:51 PM
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| Absolutely fascinating. Thank you both. I just ordered the "narrative of the Life of Crockett." I'm going to read it with pleasure and get back with you. Also, thank you both for the proffered web sites. "Be sure you are right, then go ahead." Dillon messagr board.(I've tried to log on three times but, haven't made it yet. I'm pretty much computor stupid. I won't give up! |
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
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July 17 2003
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
January 12 2005
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