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ccorner
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 05 2003
Status: offline
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 Posted - May 07 2004 : 10:51:35 PM
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I have a question to throw out to you wonderfully knowledgeable people.
Do you think a man would be able to buy off a judge or priest in order to force a woman who didn't want to marry him to marry him?
I'm asking you this because I'm looking for a believable twist in my next novel. Thank you all in advance for your input.
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Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 08 2004 : 12:07:43 AM
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i wouldnt put it past them....
evil males...
*glares*
;) |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
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Christina
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 27 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - May 13 2004 : 3:03:36 PM
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I wouldn't put it past them either! 
No seriously, I'm sure that in certain situations ANYBODY could be bought off in the right circomestances, whether it was the 1770s or today.
I'd love to hear more about your novel. I've got two in the works right now and trying to come up with plot twists that make sense is driving me insane. glad to see there's another novelist around!!!
Christina |
See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge.
Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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ccorner
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 05 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 13 2004 : 10:55:58 PM
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Thanks for your input ladies. I appreciate your opinions, lol.
I'm glad I'm not the only novelist here either Christina. What kind of books do you write?
Mine is historical fiction, this particular novel I am working on takes place during the F & I War. I am trying to develop threads that will bring me into a sequel.
The hardest part however, which I'm sure you are aware of is getting published. Yikes!
Keep in touch and if you would like to chat sometime, that would be wonderful.
Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it.
Ah hem, guys.... do you have anything to say in the matter?
Ccorner |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 13 2004 : 11:12:28 PM
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I could be way off base and very wrong, but my interpretation would be that women will still more or less considered property back then.
Marriages were still arranged and women had little say in the matter.
That being the case, according to the laws and customs of the times (assuming I am anywhere near right about the foregoing assumptions) it would not be too out of line to expect a court to uphold the father's decision as to who the girl will marry even if she was unwilling. But I don't know enough of the historical and legal truth of the matter of that time to say with any certainty. Just seems the assumptions of women as property and arranged marriages would/could lead to an assumption of legal compellance directed to an unwilling daughter/woman in that context.
On the other hand, the daughter/woman may have been compelled simply due to societal mores i.e. father telling daughter if she refuses she is renounced and out of the house with no legal standing if she does not obey and a court affirming that decision if it came to it.
For example. Or an indentured woman being compelled to marry her owner. That sort of thing. Perhaps? |
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Christina
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 14 2004 : 11:52:17 AM
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I've got two novels in the works --
one, in the works the longest, is called "Blood Ties." It's set in both Connecticut and Northern Ireland and concerns an Irish-American journalist who ends up writing about the ongoing Belfast peace process and in the meantime gets sort of ... involved... in the conflict there. It's romantic suspense. Been working on it on and off since 2000, it's gotten great responses from advance readers but tying together plot lines is driving me insane.
The other is historical fiction set in 18th century colonial South Carolina (namely, Camden Towne which was formerly Pine Tree Hill) and deals with Scottish immigrants to South Carolina after the Highland Clearances of 1746. I live only about 30 miles from Camden (the setting) and know a lot about the history, so this one has been a lot easier to just sit down and write...but again, research is killing me.
On a separate note, Bill's suggestion of the indenture possibility is a very interesting one. The whole indentured servant system made for some very interesting and complicated situations regarding property, romance, etc. and in fact the lead woman in my novel is a former indentured servant. You might want to explore some of the history about that system or some of the marriage-property laws to get more of an idea about the plot you're thinking of...
Message me any time I'd love to hear more about what you're working on...
Christina |
See this face? This is the face of a woman on the edge.
Whoopi Goldberg, "Jumping Jack Flash"
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ccorner
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 05 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 15 2004 : 11:19:06 PM
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Bill, You make a very good point. Thank you so much for your ideas.
I agree with Christina in that it needs to be researched.
Christina, I'm flattered you would like to know more about my writing. It takes place mainly in central Pennsylvania in the beginning but it moves to western PA. There is some mention of Fort William Henry in upstate NY, which by the way is about three hours away from me. One of the main characters is forced to run away to escape what would be the equivalant modern day stalker. She leaves behind family and friends except for one who helps her to find safety. Well, it gets very complicated but she will go through many situations and meet many people who will change her life forever. I love a book that takes you through your emotions. So, this book will make you laugh, cry, and cheer for the underdog. It has many surprises and twists that keep you guessing till the very end. It celebrates the inner spirit of women.
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 16 2004 : 10:51:08 AM
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| Ccorner, have you been published yet? If so, can you give us some titles to look for? |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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ccorner
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 05 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - May 17 2004 : 08:10:14 AM
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A deep sigh....
Alas no. But like you, I am trying to be. I haven't even tried to find an agent as of yet. I want the entire manuscript etc. ready to go at any given notice.
How about you? Are you published? |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 17 2004 : 12:45:49 PM
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 Who Me??? Gosh no. I haven't even attempted to write a novel. That would be way beyond my capabilites! |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Bookworm
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 10 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - May 23 2004 : 1:07:14 PM
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Since I was born, raised, and still live in central PA, I'm delighted to hear that you're writing a novel set in this area. Our history certainly has no shortage of trials and tribulations that women were forced to undergo -- the abduction of Mary Jemison and of Marie Leroy and Barbara Leininger, the eviction of the settlers at Burnt Cabins, destruction of Indian villages, etc. Plenty of material to work with.
As for the scenario you've suggested, about the forced marriage, I agree with those who said that an abuse of power can happen anytime, in any society. EArly in "Northwest Passage," Kenneth Roberts has one of his characters say: "Haven't you heard what happened to Richard Shortridge for marrying Molly Pitman when [Governor] Benning Wentworth wanted her? ... Two weeks after the wedding, Benning Wentworth arranged for a press gang to steal Shortridge out of his own home, press him into a British ship and keep him there for life. He's on a British frigate today; and for all I know, Wentworth's still trying to coax Molly down to Little Harbor." And a page later: "Do you admire Lettice Michel's father and mother for making her marry [King's Attorney] Wyseman Clagett -- for having a higher regard for any rogue in a King's uniform than for an honest man in ordinary dress? Do you admire Wyseman Clagett for beating Lettice twice a week?" So there's certainly literary precedent for a plot along the lines you propose, and a desire to curry favor with one's so-called superiors is always a good motive!
About the research -- they don't call me Bookworm for nothin', so here goes: One of my all-time favorite books is "America at 1750" by Richard Hofstadter. There's a chapter entitled "White Servitude," in which the author notes that indentured servants lived in a wide variety of conditions. Marriage without the consent of the master was illegal, and a master's consent was unlikely because he didn't want his servant's time taken up with caring for a child. So, unsurprisingly, "the crimes of fornication and bastardy figure importantly in the records of bound servitude." Also, as suggested here, female servants were subject to sexual abuse by masters. "If a maidservant identified her master as the father of her child, he could be punished for adultery, and she removed from him and resold." But, the author also notes, it's important to remember that a servant could petition the courts if he or she was being abused, and it wasn't unheard of for servants to obtain judgments in their favor.
Two other books I enjoyed are "Law and People in Colonial America" by Peter Charles Hoffer, and "Fierce Communion: Family and Community in Early America" by Helena M. Wall. They may sound dry and boring, but they're definitely not. The former notes that "In America, as in England before the Marriage Act of 1753, a man and a woman could enter into marriage by mutual consent and open cohabitation. No formal steps were necessary, though many couples did engage in religious ceremonies." This raises a slightly different plot possibility: a man could abduct a woman and force her to live with him, then insist to everyone that they're married! Also, the book notes that in both Pennsylvania and New York, divorce was allowed only for adultery. "Fierce Communion" has a lot of information about marriage, although it tends to emphasize the 17th century. It notes that the courts and community could play a very strong (we would say "interfering") role in marriages. For example, "Try as they might to rely on tactics of persuasion, colonial authorities could and often did coerce couples into observing their marriage vows." In 1661, a man in New Amsterdam asked the court to compel a woman to marry him, asserting that she was already pregnant with his child. The woman testified that she didn't want to marry him. What she DID want from him was six hundred guilders in beavers for the loss of her virginity, one hundred guilders "for her lying in |
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ccorner
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
February 05 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - June 08 2004 : 11:07:42 PM
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Bookworm,
Wow! Thank you soooo much for your information! It definently has helped and has gotten my creative juices going. I agree with you that PA is definently filled with alot of history. Four years ago I took a trip to do research on the subject. I drove to Kittaning, Pa where I have an elderly Aunt. I visited Blanket Hill and read about Armstrong County. I also visited Beaver County. I drove to Pittsburgh and visited the site of Fort Pitt, which also plays a role in my book. Well, I went on to Virginia, W. Virginia to dig up the rare personal accounts from that time. It is unbelievable how much history school leaves out.
Anyway, if you can think of any more interesting tid bits feel free. Now all I have to do is find the time to sit down and finish writing this book. I hope to get published soon. I'll keep everyone up to date on that as it progresses. It is a lofty dream but one never knows until one trys. Right? |
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marraige and law in the 1770's
