| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Lurking Huron3087
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
 Posted - April 11 2004 : 11:07:43 AM
|
I think the love story between Alice and Uncas is an irony of sorts. At Cameron's cabin, Hawkeye was teasing him about finding a 'Delaware-speaking woman' to bear him children...while Alice showed her fascination with 'the Red man' at Albany when she asked Duncan whether he had seen the red man....
They fell in love with each other...Uncas with someone the macabre opposite of what his father and maybe himself expected...An English slip of a girl who was the daughter of a redcoat colonel.who neither spoke Delaware or bore him children but.who he ultimately lost his life for..and for Alice....she did get a real taste of her fascination..whom she partially leapt to her death for...a bittersweet,tragic ironic end to two young people who did not expect to fall in love with each other....
|
|
report to moderator
|
|
|
Lurking Huron7230
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 12 2004 : 11:13:57 AM
|
i think both love stories are ironies. cora is a 'a breed apart and make no sense' according to Hawkeye who learnt it from his father.and hawkeye is considered 'uncivilised.So therein lies an irony too.
Alice and Uncas 's ending is much more tragic, which gives emphasizes the irony of them falling in love and why they died. I think the delaware -speaking woman speech is the one that creates the biggest irony on Uncas's part. Just a thought, dudes. |
report to moderator  |
|
|
Lurking Huron3644
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 16 2004 : 08:09:23 AM
|
quote:
I think the delaware -speaking woman speech is the one that creates the biggest irony on Uncas's part.
I totally agree with this statement. The irony in this statement is revealed later when he falls for an Englishman's daughter instead of what was originally planned for him. This was hinted in the movie for a reason; to show that Uncas, in matters of the heart, was more ahead of his time and had a different desire than other Mohawks. This is a nice touch to contrast and support the subtle romance that came to be. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 16 2004 : 3:37:20 PM
|
i agree...
but what did you mean by
quote:
to show that Uncas, in matters of the heart, was more ahead of his time
how was he ahead of his time? |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Lurking Huron4665
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 16 2004 : 8:23:40 PM
|
| I loved the understated romance between Uncas and ALice. I loved the whole movie as a whole but the moment that Uncas pulled Alice back from the water fall.... I loved it...I was only 6 when this movie came out but it's now my favorite movie of all time. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
rydergrl
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 03 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 16 2004 : 11:28:00 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lurking Huron7230
i think both love stories are ironies. cora is a 'a breed apart and make no sense' according to Hawkeye who learnt it from his father.and hawkeye is considered 'uncivilised.So therein lies an irony too.
Alice and Uncas 's ending is much more tragic, which gives emphasizes the irony of them falling in love and why they died. I think the delaware -speaking woman speech is the one that creates the biggest irony on Uncas's part. Just a thought, dudes.
You know, I never paid much attention to the dialogue in this movie, at least not on this level, until we began dissecting it.--the "breed apart and make no sense," I took to mean they were male and female and that his father had warned him of women; the "...Delaware-speaking woman" line I took as a mere jest among brothers. |
What you give of yourself is priceless. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Lurking Huron3641
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 17 2004 : 4:50:41 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ithiliana
i agree...
but what did you mean by
quote:
to show that Uncas, in matters of the heart, was more ahead of his time
how was he ahead of his time?
Obviously it was tradition that a Mohawk settle down with a woman of his kind; hence, the Delaware-speaking woman that was supposed to be in Uncas's future.
The irony is that Uncas seemed not so much in agreement with this tradition, as he became intrigued by an Englishman's daughter- (if not a major no-no for a Mohawk, then certainly not something common in his time). I am sure that the Delaware-speaking woman comment was included in the film to express the contrast of said romance; (Uncas/Alice - Mohawk/British).
I believe that this comment serves to mildly hint at the barriers that existed as far as romantic relations between the two cultures; thereby making it more vivid for the viewer later when this character was perhaps wanting to overcome them.
"Uncas was ahead of his time in matters of the heart" - meaning... he wished for the Englishman's daughter because it was love at first sight, however unconventional such an attraction was for his time.
Does that make sense to you? I hope I explained it well.
It was centuries ago keep in mind.
Thanks! |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 17 2004 : 10:43:07 PM
|
ok...
so where cora (the petted, aristocratic english lady) and natty (the rough, rugged, mohican-adopted frontiersman) ahead of their time too? and alice? and howabout magua, who also was going to marry alice, not to mention the fact that he called a huron sachem a "dog" and a "woman"? are they all way ahead of their time?
or did the war just tear their lives to shreds, rip them away from tradition, expose them to things that they would never have otherwise encountered?
just wondering... :) |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Lurking Huron3643
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 18 2004 : 07:26:58 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ithiliana
ok...
so where cora (the petted, aristocratic english lady) and natty (the rough, rugged, mohican-adopted frontiersman) ahead of their time too? and alice? and howabout magua, who also was going to marry alice, not to mention the fact that he called a huron sachem a "dog" and a "woman"? are they all way ahead of their time?
or did the war just tear their lives to shreds, rip them away from tradition, expose them to things that they would never have otherwise encountered?
just wondering... :)
Ok Ithiliana, good points. I will address this with you also (I am the person you were responding to above).
Alice ahead of her time? No, I saw nothing in the movie that would lead me to this conclusion. Had it not been for these war circomestances, I cannot see her allowing herself to fall in love with Uncas. Really! Not probable.
Cora? Yes, she was unlike most English women. She turned down an English Colonel to be with a Mohican-raised frontier's man. I am sure that is a bit untraditional in her days. She followed her heart. She may have done with had there been a war or not.
Hawkeye? Yes and no. He was Mohican raised, but he was a frontier's man by birth never-the-less. He was treated as a frontier's man by mostly everyone he met and his behavior was a combination of Mohican and frontiersman. He was the most outspoken one of the three; He could have easily married a frontier's woman and his father would have been pleased. That is the feeling I am getting from the film, that Hawkeye was in a more elastic position than his brother. The fact that he fell in love with the Colonel's daughter was something unexpected for him, but I cannot say that it was such an unconventional blow to his traditions. You see, he was not intended to marry a Delaware-speaking woman and thus have many babies to further continue the blood-line of Mohicans. (In the last statement by Chingasgook- mispelled his name- he was not acknowledged as the last of two Mohicans, you see). I am saying that his romantic interest in Cora was more mild and less unconventional than that of his brother's in Alice.
Magua? He was very fearless and disrespectful at the point in which he cursed the sachem. He revolted against the sachem, yes; the horrible situation of war and revenge brought him to it. He had very deep anger inside him and was at a boiling point of hostility. But he was not ahead of his time in that he did not fall in love with an English woman, but was given one as his slave wife. Certainly far different than Uncas's predicament.
It is good analyzing with you. Let me know what you think...
(I think I need to register at some point, LOL!)
~V. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Vee
Pathfinder
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 18 2004
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 18 2004 : 07:41:24 AM
|
Yeah! Ok, guys... just wanted to mention that I finally registered! 
I am no longer Lurking Huron 3641 and 3643. See you!
~V. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Ithiliana
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 07 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 19 2004 : 7:52:51 PM
|
woohoo!
go you!
way to join the mohican-obsessed community!
:)
-ithi |
Le Poisson Rouge Seudois du Chaos
Conspiracy of One |
| report to moderator |
|
|
rydergrl
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 03 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 22 2004 : 11:03:31 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vee
Yeah! Ok, guys... just wanted to mention that I finally registered!
I am no longer Lurking Huron 3641 and 3643. See you!
~V.
Welcome Vee, I've enjoyed your posts as a "Lurking Huron." |
What you give of yourself is priceless. |
| report to moderator |
|
|
LittleOne
Pathfinder
Canada
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 23 2004
Status: offline
|
Posted - April 24 2004 : 3:34:06 PM
|
Welcome Vee!! I just registered too!  |
~Sincerely yours, the littleOne "Tetanktitit" |
| report to moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
Alice & Uncas--A bittersweet Irony
