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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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 Posted - September 11 2003 : 2:47:05 PM
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Poll Question:
I've dug up some more titles, dropped all of the Cooper films and tried to cut some of the dogs out of the list. So of the listed films that cover American history up to the Revolutionary War which is your favorite?
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - September 17 2003 : 08:40:55 AM
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I would have loved to vote for "George Washington's First War", but since I was involved in the production, it would have appeared as a conflict of intrest. I voted for "Unconquered", not because I find Swanson's story to be all that interesting, but because of the special effects utilized by DeMille. His portrayal of Ft. Pitt and Ft. Vernango were excellent and still stand on their own today, even though they were done using the model/soundtage technology of the 1940's. It was "The Patriot" of its time.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Two Kettles
Colonial Settler
USA
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August 01 2002
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Posted - September 17 2003 : 12:56:21 PM
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Well, for me, it's hands down NORTHWEST PASSAGE, my all time favorite movie. But, for what it's worth, there are a few others that aren't on the list (and probably wouldn't make anybody's favorites list).
There's the godawful Disney version of Conrad Richter's outstanding novel THE LIGHT IN THE FOREST (my number one choice for a really good remake). The only thing it has going for it is a young, stunning Carol Lynley in one of her first appearances.
Speaking of godawful, there's the made for tv version of James Alexander Thom's FOLLOW THE RIVER, which settles for simply being mediocre through most of it, until the contrived ending where it becomes truly wretched (and insulting to the memory of Mary Ingles and what she really went through).
On a brighter note (reportedly, since I haven't seen the whole movie) is THE DEVIL'S DISCIPLE, based on a play by George Bernard Shaw, set during the Saratoga campaign, with Olivier as Gentleman Johnny Burgoyne.
Finally, although it's a made for tv mini and not a theatrical film, there's the Barry Bostwick "George Washington" miniseries, which, despite its weaknesses, is a pretty good piece of work.
Two Kettles |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - September 17 2003 : 1:34:41 PM
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Well, I have seen very few of these, and a couple of them I saw many years ago. But, in that context, I voted for "Drums Along the Mohawk". Old-fashioned... yes. Hoaky at times... yes. But fairly accurate in the events portrayed, and enjoyable to me because it was about my Mohawk Valley ancestors.
Johnny Tremain... the Disney version I saw as a child, and liked it.
Barry Lyndon... I haven't seen since it first came out.
The Patriot... at risk of being tarred and feathered and run out of Mohicanland on a rail by our re-enactor friends, I liked it a lot.
Two Kettles, I also saw "Light in the Forest" as a child, but really don't remember much about it at all. And I agree with you on your assessment of "Follow the River". Great book! Horrible movie... except for another chance to ogle the handsome Eric Schweig! But when I saw that contrived, "let's-make-it-a-happy-one" ending, I laughed.
I guess I am going to have to try to see "Northwest Passage", "Allegheny Uprising" and "Unconquered".
I could add another one to the list, Susquesus: "Broken Chain", which also starred Eric Schweig, along with Pierce Brosnin as Sir William Johnson. Fairly well done, quite accurate (with regard to the Iroquois and their culture)... until the very end of the movie when the Tryon County Militia were briefly shown fighting at Oriskany in neat, tidy, blue Continental Line uniforms. These were German farmers who were also militiamen. It is doubtful they had any uniforms at all.
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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Posted - September 18 2003 : 12:40:55 AM
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| I went with "Black Robe", it's the Canadian Dances with Wolves. Nice look at the Hurons and with the exception of Last of the Mohicans has the most stunning landscapes I've seen. I'm also a big fan of "Drums Along the Mohawk", I loved the character of "Blue Bear". I'm waiting to see "Swamp Fox", anyone seen it? |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - September 18 2003 : 08:25:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by susquesus
...I'm also a big fan of "Drums Along the Mohawk", I loved the character of "Blue Bear".
Cool! Another "Drums" fan! Mrs. McKlennar, well portrayed by Edna Mae Oliver, is my favorite character. Have you read the book by Walter D. Edmunds? If not, do!
Is "Swamp Fox" about Francis Marion? Haven't heard of that one, but I fondly remember the Disney TV series (again watched as a child) that starred a very young and handsome Leslie Nielsen!
BTW, Susquesus, I am enjoying your participation on the boards! (I am sure that others agree.) We're glad you're here. |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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Posted - September 18 2003 : 4:21:18 PM
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Thank you for the kind words Wilderness Woman, I have enjoyed participating in the forum ever since I discovered it. It's nice to have something to look forward to when I get home from work. I work at a shopping mall and it's hard to find interesting conversation in the workplace.
I haven't read "Drums", didn't even realize it was based on a novel, I'll make a point of hunting it down. I'm currently reading "Wyandotte", another Cooper novel. This one is about a retired British officer who is granted a tract of land in the New York colony, I've just got to the bit where the revolution is starting and the residents of this small frontier settlement are beginning to worry about attacks from natives allied to the British, exciting stuff.
Yes, "Swamp Fox" is the Disney series starring Leslie Nielsen and Slim Pickens, I found it listed at IMDB.com, haven't been able to find it on tape or DVD, though I remember seeing it on the Disney Channel a number of years ago. Take Care!
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Two Kettles
Colonial Settler
USA
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August 01 2002
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Posted - September 19 2003 : 12:16:41 AM
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Chorus
Swamp Fox! Swamp Fox!
Tail on his hat,
Nobody knows where The Swamp Fox's at.
Swamp Fox! Swamp Fox!
Hiding in the glen,
He runs away to fight again.
I fire a gun the birds take wing.
Their startled cries a signal clear.
My men march forth to fight the king.
And leave behind their loved ones dear.
(Chorus)
We had no lead, we had no powder.
Always fought with an empty gun.
Only made us shout the louder.
We are men of Marion.
We had no cornpone, had no honey.
All we had was Continental money.
Wouldn't buy nothing worth beans in the pot.
Roasted ears and possum was all we go.
(Chorus)
We had no blankets, had no bed.
Had no roof above our head.
We get no shelter when it rains.
All we got is Yankee brains.
The Redcoats fight in a foreign land.
Their hearts are far across the sea.
They never try to understand.
We fight for home and liberty.
(Chorus 2X)
from home.att.net/~tvthemelyrics/swamp.htm
Those were wonderful shows. I remember in one episode, Marion was going into town to spy on Tarleton's men. One of the rebels reminded him he had to be disguised, so he took off his tricornered cowboy hat, and took the fox tail and gorget off of it. Then he was in disguise!
The discussion about DRUMS ALONG THE MOHAWK (which I agree is a terrific movie) reminded me of a little known but worthwhile film. There's a Canadian made for tv movie called DIVIDED LOYALTIES, which is very similar to BROKEN CHAIN. It's a biography of Joseph Brant, with Chris Wiggins as William Johnson (wearing a reproduction of the gold laced red coat Johnson wears in his portrait) and Tantoo Cardinal as Molly. Reenactors were used extensively in it, and I have a friend who still has the unrepaired hole in his sleeved weskit where the squib went off for the first "hit" on a continental militiaman at Oriskany.
Two Kettles
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - September 19 2003 : 09:13:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Two Kettles
...The discussion about DRUMS ALONG THE MOHAWK (which I agree is a terrific movie) reminded me of a little known but worthwhile film. There's a Canadian made for tv movie called DIVIDED LOYALTIES, which is very similar to BROKEN CHAIN. It's a biography of Joseph Brant, with Chris Wiggins as William Johnson (wearing a reproduction of the gold laced red coat Johnson wears in his portrait) and Tantoo Cardinal as Molly. Reenactors were used extensively in it, and I have a friend who still has the unrepaired hole in his sleeved weskit where the squib went off for the first "hit" on a continental militiaman at Oriskany.
Oh, Wow! I would love to see "Divided Loyalties"! I'll have to see if it is available somewhere. My 4th great-grandfather, Heinrich (Henry) Zimmerman, lived directly across the Mohawk River from Gen. Herkimer and the Indian Castle where Joseph Brant was born and raised. I enjoy speculating that they were friends and neighbors until the Revolution "divided loyalties." Thanks for the tip on that one.
Speaking of "Drums", remember the scene where Gil Martin (Henry Fonda) sets out on a marathon run with Indian warriors hot on his tail? Did you guys know that was based on a true incident? Adam Helmer, who was one of the "scouts" Gen. Herkimer sent ahead to Ft. Stanwix prior to the Battle of Oriskany, is one of the Mohawk Valley's most celebrated heroes. (Ward Bond played Adam Helmer in the movie, but he didn't get to do his run. Hollywood gave it to Henry Fonda.)
On Sept. 17, 1778, Lt. Adam Helmer and 8 other scouts were sent south toward Unadilla (NY) to see what Chief Brant and his warriors were up to. While on this mission, they were attacked and several of the scouts were killed. Adam escaped and began his famous run. He ran from present day Edmeston to Fort Herkimer, at German Flats, on the Mohawk River, a distance of at least 30 miles, following an old Indian trail.
Along the way he yelled a warning to residents of farms he came across. He arrived at the fort with clothing in tatters, bloodied and bruised and thoroughly exhausted. The general alarm was sounded at the fort and citizens began gathering there for protection, where they watched their homes and farms being burned.
Adam collapsed into a deep sleep and never awakened until about 36 hours later. Folks feared that his heart had been so taxed by his run that he would not awaken. But he did and was back on duty a few days later. Adam Helmer is credited with saving the lives of many valley residents on that day.
Kinda' puts ol' Paul Revere to shame, doesn't it?
To read the complete story of Adam Helmer, you can go here:
http://www.rootsweb.com/%7Enyherkim/regiments/helmer.html
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wlogwihlas
Pathfinder
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September 25 2003
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Posted - September 26 2003 : 6:08:56 PM
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my fav would have to be the Black Robe. even though its not the greatest movie, its still about eastern woodland indians, and it has tatoo cardinal, so thats pretty neat
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hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - November 09 2003 : 3:12:16 PM
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I can now add another of these films to my "I've Seen Them" list. I recently took a deep breath and purchased "Revolution." The deep breath was because I had seen some pretty bad reviews, but since I am never one to listen to the so-called critics, choosing to form my own opinions... I went for it. And I am not sorry I did.
"Revolution" was made in 1985 and stars Al Pacino. Pacino plays a rough-hewn trapper who, along with his young teen-aged son, is eeking out a living selling furs along the rough and dirty waterfront of New York City. The movie opens in 1776, just as independence is declared. When his boat is confiscated by the Continental Army, both he and his son become involved in the war, and the movie follows their experiences.
The movie was bleak, in some respects, in its authenticity. There was a lot of dirt, rain and mud. NY City looked like a place where one would not have wanted to live in the 1770s. Valley Forge looked suitably miserable. What I really liked about the movie was the way it showed how a man who really didn't want to have anything to do with a War for Independence (because he was too busy trying to make a life for himself and his son) can get accidentally caught up in it and end up doing it because he knows it will ultimately make life better.
I thought the battle scenes were quite well done. I'm sure that our re-enactor friends would see inaccuracies, but I enjoyed them. They were not brutal in their goriness, but they showed, again, the bleakness of war.
The supporting cast includes Donald Sutherland as a British Sgt. Major, and Nastassja Kinski as a Patriot woman. Graham Green had a brief non-speaking part.
All-in-all... I liked it very much, and I am glad to have it in my collection. |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 02:02:40 AM
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Ok I have to add to this thread too. After hearing about "Barry Lyndon' I bought a copy off of ebay and watched it this weekend. I was throughly entertained by it. The costuming was very well done, noted exception was that the British uniform never seemed to change over the years. The acting was good and the story line kept me interested. Not my #1 historically based film.. but very good. I liked the dueling sequences...never heard of that way of dueling.
I noticed while checking out the poll results that only 13 people voted in it though over 250 people have read it. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 08:13:04 AM
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I enjoyed "Barry Lyndon" also, 'Hawk, and I also noticed the same discrepency with the uniforms. The King's Warrant of 1768, caused a noticible change to fit, coat length, color, material, etc. Here in the colonies, the change over did take longer (communication, transportation of material, etc.), but it would have happened alot sooner back at 'home'.
I also noticed that none of the British soldiers wore a double frog and brass hilted hanger (short sword), during the Seven Years War scenes. Now the use of the hanger steadily declined in North America, where it was thought of as a useless encumbrance (reserved only for garrison parade and provost duties) and was generally replaced with the Light Infantry Axe (evolved from the tommahawk & colonial hand axe). But in Great Britian and Europe the hanger was still worn up until the 1768 Warrant, where it was officially abolished for all enlisted infantry, except Sergeants, Drummers and Private Soldiers in both Grenadier Companies and Highland Regiments.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 12:21:43 PM
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Regarding "Revolution," I've had a copy and have enjoyed it for many years. Although it has it's flaws, I think it is much better than the "Patriot" in depicting the attitudes of the people at the time, the clothing, accents, 18th century New York, etc. The set they used for New York City was incredibly detailed. It's a very different film than the standard Hollywood action/drama, and for that reason many people dislike it. I appreciated the effort made to depict the changes in the Continental Army from early war to late war, the accents of New Yorkers, New Englanders and British soldiers, and the overall mood and feeling of the film just felt like the 18th century to me.
Regarding "Barry Lyndon," I liked it visually. Many of the scenes are very beautiful recreations of 18th century paintings, and the soundtrack was an excellent selection of 18th century music. But I found the story very boring. I just didn't care about the guy, he was an 18th century immoral jerk. Who cares about jerks? Also another error in the clothing was that Barry was wearing a 1770s waistcoat and frock in Ireland before the 7 Years War.
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YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 12:45:02 PM
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That waistcoat was the very first thing I noticed out of place. I did enjoy his character although he became a throughly dislikeable man. He was a jerk, but circumstances made him that way, it was life that changed him. He was a much more watchable character than the "Mayor of Castorbridge".
The backgrounds were used to great effect. It was a very visual movie.
The one battle scene was great to watch, I wonder who they got to be the British Soldiers? They certainly could march in line, the drilling scene and the battle scene were excellent. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 12:47:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CT•Ranger
. . . the overall mood and feeling of the film just felt like the 18th century to me.
Yes! That's it exactly! I really felt like I was there. One critique I read panned Pacino's acting and particularly mentioned his heavy New York accent. I thought it was very appropriate, although I did have difficulty understanding some of the dialogue. But that may have been due more to the sound quality than the accents. I also thought Donald Sutherland did a great job with both his acting and his British accent. |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 17 2002
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Posted - November 10 2003 : 10:02:48 PM
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I'm a big Kenneth Roberts fan, and am fond of Tracy as well, so I'm tempted to go with Northwest Passage.
But the fact is, it didn't really do justice to the book, and while I like to watch it when it comes around if I have time, I have no real desire to own it so I can view it at will. There are in fact only a handful of movies I own for my own use.
One of these is "The Patriot". In spite of the flaws, it speaks to my inner American. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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lanceman
Pathfinder
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May 20 2004
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Posted - May 20 2004 : 10:24:53 PM
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| Despite some of the historical innaccuracies, I picked "The Patriot". |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - November 01 2004 : 12:25:28 AM
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"Unconquered"really made Chief Guyasutta, and all of the other Indians appear to be stupid. This Gary Cooper movie was a real farce. I don't know where they filmed the chase scenes in the canoes going down the river, but I can guarantee that it was nowhere in Pennsylvania, where the action was supposed to have taken place. few scenes were. The trees and flora simply isn't Penna. Some few scenes were filmed at Cook's Forest, in Penna.
Blackrobe gets my vote for getting close to accuracy. Most of the forties and fifties flicks are laughable in their portrayal of actual events. They could have left the stupid dwarf out of the movie.
The one about the Swatara/Paxtang thugs from the Susquehanna River area of Penna. where John Wayne played Jim Smith, is simply insulting. I think this one was "Allegheny Uprising" but really should have been "Susquehanna Uprising".
The Patriot was so innacurate as to be laughable.
You are correct about the portrayal of Mary Draper in the tv version of the event. My Shawnee people captured her at Drapers Meadow on the New River near present day Radford, Va. Her story is one of courage and determination. She was adopted into the Shawnee, and really didn't have to escape. When she did escape, she left at the wrong time of year, and did everything wrong, but amazingly survived. I have sprinkled tobacco on this brave Shawnee lady's grave to honor her. The stupid tv movie did little to honor this woman. The ending was not accurate at all. It is not known for sure if she was with child when captured, as it is pure speculation. If she had a child, nothing is known of it's gender or it's fate. Also, one of her sons died from smallpox while living with the Shawnee. The other returned home, and ironically, was captured again by another tribe, years later. The Shawnee warrior never brought any of the children home as seen in the tv movie. This could have been a very good movie. Typical farce. I apologized to her at her grave site, for the tv portrayalof her epic journey back to Draper's Meadow. Sadly, logs from her cabin still exist, and no-one cares to rebuild her cabin at the original site. She is buried under trees to the left of the stage where an outdoor drama was held every summer about her life. It was not accurate, but closer than the tv movie. Sadly, the play is no longer held, and the whole area is falling into a sad state. She deserves better than this. At least the state of Virginia could erect a monument to her. Maybe this is a project that I could pursue. It would be more fitting if the Shawnee gave her a monument, since the whites don't seem to care. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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Fitzroy
Lost in the Wilderness
Belgium
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Posted - December 02 2004 : 1:34:17 PM
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Which of these would be available on DVD for (preferably) region 2?
Did anyone like "Field of Honour"?
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Okwaho
Pathfinder
USA
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December 24 2004
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Posted - January 03 2005 : 6:20:48 PM
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Well I picked my top three {in order of preference}
Black Robe
Northwest Passage
Drums along the Mohawk
Outside of a few clothing details,Black Robe was a brilliant telling of the incredible hardships the early Jesuits faced in mimistering primarily to the Hurons and related tribes.One has only to read the Jesuit Relations to understand the hardships but nothing in the movie could have approached the deaths by torture of Frs. Gabriel Alement and Jean de Breubuf inflicted by Mohawks and Huron adoptees in March 1649,See "Noble deaths of certain Fathers belonging to the Society of Jesus in New France",a print done from a painting of the mid 17th century After a number of other very severe tortures inflicted upon them they had boiling water poured over their heads in derision of the Baptism.The Black Robes as they were called by the Indians were men of absolutely incredible faith and courage and this is shown in a milder telling in Black Robe and what might have happened is avoided by the escape of the priest and the others from the Mohawk longhouse. |
It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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revised/expanded:colonial-revolution era films
