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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - August 07 2003 : 12:48:37 PM
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| Ct,I'm glad you acknowledge that the Church has something to do with the interpretation of Scripture but you state that the Church's authority is not equal to or greater than Scripture.I will have to answer that with what ST.Augustine said,"I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so." |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 14 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 07 2003 : 11:49:09 PM
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"For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." -Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus, ch.5
What does this actually mean? We should be careful to not take it out of its context.
"The phrase has to be read in its context. First of all, St. Augustine did not utter this sentence on his own behalf. He spoke of the attitude which a simple believer had to take, when confronted with the heretical claim of authority. In this situation it was proper for a simple believer to appeal to the authority of the Church, from which, and in which, he had recieved the Gospel itself: ipsi Evangelio catholicis praedicantibus credidi. [I believed the Gospel itself, being instructed by catholic preachers]. The Gospel and the preaching of the Catholica belong together. St. Augustine had no intention "to subordinate" the Gospel to the Church. He only wanted to emphasize that "Gospel" is actually received always in the context of the Church's catholic preaching and simply cannot be separated from the Church. Only in this context it can be assessed and properly understood. Indeed, the witness of the Scripture is ultimately "self-evident," but only for the faithful, for those who have acheived a certain "spiritual" maturity, --and this is only possible within the Church. He opposed this teaching and preaching auctoritas of the Church Catholic to the pretentious vagaries of Manichean exegesis. The Gospel did not belong to the Manicheans. Catholicae Ecclesiae auctoritas [the authority of the Catholic Church] was not an independent source of faith. But it was the indespensible principle of sound interpretation. Actually, the sentence could be converted: one should not believe the Church, unless one was moved by the Gospel. The relationship is strictly reciprocal." -Flovorsky
"The Church must be understood to have an authority to direct (commovere) the believer to the door which leads to the fullness of the Word itself." -Oberman |
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 12 2003 : 9:47:05 PM
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| What Augustine thought: It is in fact the Church which determines the canon of Scripture(De doct.chr.2,7,12),which transmits tradition and interprets both of the above (De Gen.ad litt.ap.imp.1,1)which settles controversies (De bapt 2,4,5) and prescribes the regula fidei (De doct.chr.3,1,2) Therefore," I will rest secure in the Church," writes Augustine... |
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Sola Scriptura - Biblical or Not?
