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Lurking Huron1504
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 Posted - May 01 2003 : 1:13:51 PM
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In watching it again, I'm always struck by how fluently he's translating at the end when Nathaniel is speaking. I mean N. barely pauses for breath - not very fair to the interpreter!!!! :) Poor old Duncan ..... starts out so unsympathetically but as his hair gets wet, he looks cuter and then he gets all selfless at the end .... AND multilingual ;)
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - May 01 2003 : 5:28:08 PM
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| I would imagine that most English of the officer class could speak French. In War and Peace, for instance, most of the conversations are supposed to be carried on in French, even though it is in Russia. It is the language that educated people were expected to know. Now, French spoken with a Huron dialect would seem to be about as understandable to an Englishman as Scottish would be to me. So the fast translations sound more like something from the UN than what would actually happen in the 18th century frontier. |
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richfed
Sachem
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Posted - May 01 2003 : 7:44:44 PM
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| I think the speed of things here, Fitz, is for cinematic effect. In any event, Steven Waddington does a fantastic job! Underrated performance, to be sure! |
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chasis_22
Colonial Settler
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 12:04:25 AM
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| I was curious about the whole mixing the language thing. Why do they always say le francais when they are speaking english? Why not just say the french? As for Steven Waddington's brilliant translation I have to give it a two thumbs up! I have taken french for four years and could never translate anything that fast.....then again I have never been in a situation like that either! |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 08:26:23 AM
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| Now that I think about it, I'm unclear why the Sachem accepted the idea of taking Duncan rather than Cora and Alice. The point was to recompense Magua for his pain and suffering. Burning Duncan and letting the women go accomplished nothing. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 11:22:20 AM
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Now that I think about it, I'm unclear why the Sachem accepted the idea of taking Duncan rather than Cora and Alice. The point was to recompense Magua for his pain and suffering. Burning Duncan and letting the women go accomplished nothing.
I could see not burning the women, after all you could sell them. But letting one go makes no sense. So for all his trouble, Magua ends up with only one woman. Probably a little upset about that! |
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chasis_22
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 5:33:12 PM
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| Perhaps that is why Magua says it was not the voice of wisdom and that he spits on them. |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 5:45:30 PM
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The Sachem did give Alice to Magua. And he gave Duncan to "the crowd."
I think he was trying to appease everyone... being the wise-man that he was. My opinion is that he did not have any particular interest in what happened to whom. He simply had to act as the judge and jury in the matter. So he satisfied Magua's demand for revenge by giving him one daughter (and Magua was irritated about that!)... he satisfied the blood-thirst of the villagers by giving them Duncan... and he allowed Cora to go free... perhaps out of respect for Hawkeye and/or Chingachgook.
As for Stephen Waddington's ability to rattle out that French... I feel that it would be extremely difficult for an actor to phonetically learn that much French and make it sound that good. And it did sound good! I suppose it's possible, but my first thought when I saw that scene was that he must have known fluent French already. Just guessing, however!
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60thGrenadier
Pathfinder
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Posted - May 03 2003 : 11:17:58 PM
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| My understanding is that most British Officers had at least a working knowledge of the French language.The French Indians would have definitely been fluent as a result of the influence of "The Black Robes" or Jesuit Priests. |
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Lurking Huron1504
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Posted - May 04 2003 : 09:54:04 AM
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| I agree that he must have known it already. His pronounciation is perfect and he's speaking so fast! Very very impressive. :) He did such a good job ..... |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
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Posted - May 04 2003 : 6:06:34 PM
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Magua was interested in two things, both obsessively.
His primary interest was revenge against Munro, and exterminating his seed. He wanted the daughters dead, both of them.
He also wanted recognition as a great Huron war leader. OK, that's really two things, Huron and war leader.
This is why he brings the prisoners in, rather than just killing them.
(His plan to sell Duncan to the French is a weakness in the movie, BTW. The French have already granted him parole. While they may turn a blind eye to what Magua does, they're surely not going to be interested in "buying" a prisoner they've already paroled.)
The Sachem acknowledges Magua's skill as a warrior, but utterly rejects him as a Huron. Magua is incensed already. The Sachem throws him a sop by burning Cora, and letting him have Alice. Magua's not interested in a wife. He wants revenge. He calls these Hurons women and dogs and spits on them, and says he'll take his business to the Huron of the Western Lake (IIRC). The Sachem maintains his composure, but takes Duncan up on his offer, which makes a better show for his people than burning a mere woman anyway (maybe that's the answer to my question), and turns Cora over to Hawkeye, which means that Munro's seed will bear fruit (at least as long as the movie's Hawkeye has anything to do with it), so it's the Sachem's way of saying: "Well, F you too, Magua".
As far as Waddington speaking French, I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised. (As I understand the question, it's whether Waddington speaks French, not English officers of the period.)
However, twenty thousand dollars worth of French coaching would be small change in a production such as this.
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - May 04 2003 : 6:59:51 PM
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You've made some very good points, Scott. I was part way there, anyway!
I should have gone to read the script first, because I had forgotten about the "women and dogs and spitting" part. That does help explain why the Sachem made his decisions the way he did.
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Lurking Huron1504
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Posted - May 04 2003 : 7:45:24 PM
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Scott
Great post!
And you are right - my original question was whether Waddington spoke French but was happy that the discussion developed the way it did anyway :D |
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
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Posted - May 05 2003 : 12:59:12 AM
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| It still looks like Magua would have killed Alice. Just before she jumped, it almost looked like Magua was showing some compasion. It just seems unlikely. |
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Scott Bubar
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Posted - May 05 2003 : 06:27:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
It still looks like Magua would have killed Alice. Just before she jumped, it almost looked like Magua was showing some compasion. It just seems unlikely.
It did look like that Fitz. |
~~Aim small, miss small. |
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Wilderness Woman
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Posted - May 05 2003 : 08:45:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Bubar
quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Williams
It still looks like Magua would have killed Alice. Just before she jumped, it almost looked like Magua was showing some compasion. It just seems unlikely.
It did look like that Fitz.
Yeah... great acting by Mr. Studi, wasn't it? That very subtle change of expression almost... almost had us believing that he would spare her life... and yet, knowing what we know of Magua...
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Can Steven Waddington speak French?
