| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
 Posted - December 04 2003 : 3:50:54 PM
|
The British were probably the largest user of rocket artillery in the 19th century. Often thought of as a 'cult' within the Royal Artillery Establishment, by its more conventional horse, field & garrison gunner brethern, the war rocket's usefullness was always in question.
Since the British first used rocket artillery in 1806, at the bombardment of Boulogne, there had always been those who slighted the system. Even the Duke of Wellington was reported to have said, "The effectiveness of the rocket is limited to employment against uncivilized natives and Americans". The last part of his statement refered to the deployment of rocket artillery in North America during the War of 1812, where it was thought of as a symbol of British oppression and a 'terror weapon'.
The war rocket continued to soldier on, in colonial warfare, until the 1890's. The earlier Congreve design was replaced by the more portable Hale pattern (using angled vents instead of a guidestick for stability) in the mid-19th century. The much maligned war rocket would disappear from use at the dawn of the 20th century. It would be during World War II, when the 'wheel' would be re-invented, with the return of the war rocket as a bombardment weapon. The war rocket continues its service today, with the U.S. Army's MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket System).
An interesting sidenote, the U.S. Army also deployed war rockets in the 19th century. The bombardment use was discontinued for 'frontline' artillery units after the Mexican-American War, and it was religated to a signal/support role during the American Civil War.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
|
report to moderator
|
|
|
susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 03 2003
Status: offline
|
 Posted - December 11 2003 : 12:56:57 AM
|
Guidesticks? Were these early rockets essentially large bottle rockets? How were they launched? From fixed locations? Mobile launchers? Metal tubes? I had no idea the technology was so old. Oh wait- "and the rockets red glare." Duh.
Further mechanical info or links to photo-references would be appreciated if anyone has it. |
report to moderator  |
|
|
CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 14 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 11 2003 : 08:22:49 AM
|
I know this is the wrong time period, but in the late 18th century the British had something that looked like a large flintlock musket that fired rockets from the shoulder. I don't think it was ever used in combat, but very interesting. Also didn't the British use rockets at the Battle of New Orleans 1815?
|
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 11 2003 : 3:18:14 PM
|
quote:
...but in the late 18th century the British had something that looked like a large flintlock musket that fired rockets from the shoulder.
I'm not familiar with that support weapon, Ranger, but if you got some pictures/further info, please let me know. I am familiar with a firelock-type grenade launching system from the mid-18th century, but its field test results were less than stellar.
quote:
Guidesticks? Were these early rockets essentially large bottle rockets?
Yes they were, very similar in design.
quote:
How were they launched? From fixed locations? Mobile launchers? Metal tubes?
Yes, all of the above, both on land and sea. The mobile launchers consisted of a trough or tube supported by a ladder-type bi-pod (to facilitate reloading). The guidesticks and war heads were transported separtely (to lessen the chance of breakage), and were assembled on site in a matter of minutes. The whole system could be transported by mule/horse or by foot, eliminating the need for wagons/limbers.
quote:
Further mechanical info or links to photo-references would be appreciated if anyone has it.
I'll do that, in the next couple of days.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
October 14 2002
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 11 2003 : 3:28:36 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
quote:
...but in the late 18th century the British had something that looked like a large flintlock musket that fired rockets from the shoulder.
I'm not familiar with that support weapon, Ranger, but if you got some pictures/further info, please let me know. I am familiar with a firelock-type grenade launching system from the mid-18th century, but its field test results were less than stellar.
Sgt. you can find pictures and a description in Howard L. Blackmore's British Military Firearms, 1650-1850.
|
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
|
| report to moderator |
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 11 2003 : 3:36:54 PM
|
Thanks Ranger, I'll have to peruse my copy later this evening. An 18th century M72A2 LAW, thats just too cool...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 27 2003
Status: offline
|
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 12 2003 : 09:30:30 AM
|
Thanks for the links Kurt. Might I also suggest the following title, availible through Museum Restoration Service (Alexandria Bay, N.Y. 13607-0070):
GRAVES, Donald E. "Sir William Congreve And The Rocket's Red Glare"
It is part of Museum Restoration's 'Historical Arms Series' (Number 23) and gives a good overview of the war rocket during the late 18th and through the 19th centuries.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 12 2003 : 11:11:17 AM
|
P.S.- I also ordered the following work, refered to in one of Kurt's links:
Frank H. Winter, The First Golden Age of Rocketry: Congreve and Hale Rockets of the Nineteenth Century (Smithsonian Institution Press: Washington, D.C., 1990).
I eagerly await its arrival here at Castle Munro. Thanks again for the research, Kurt.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 27 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 12 2003 : 6:52:51 PM
|
| My pleasure to have been of service, Sergeant! If any name is associated with the flintlock/rocket launcher is in the paper reference, it would help with the web search. Finding out about Lt. Henry Shrapnel's invention of a fragmentation shell was very interesting for me. |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
| report to moderator |
|
|
Kurt
Mohicanite
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 27 2003
Status: offline
|
Posted - December 14 2003 : 1:21:54 PM
|
Apparently there was a "Tinker's Mortar" (from http://www.inert-ord.net/rod02h/ )
The idea of using the rifle to discharge a grenade is a very old one. The School of Infantry Museum at Warminster, England, has a flintlock musket on display called the "Tinker's Mortar", dating from 1681. The rifle was placed on the ground, muzzle down. A special channel ran from the flintlock pan to a cup built into the buttstock. A propellant charge was poured into a special powder chamber in the cup. A simple grenade was the projectile, the flash of the propellant ignited the fuze as it was fired. Other designs from the same time period, have a cup permanently attached to the muzzle. A novel idea, but cumbersome and ineffective. |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
| report to moderator |
|
|
SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 23 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - December 14 2003 : 5:58:41 PM
|
I have found reference to a weapon system very similar to the 'Tinker Mortar' in Neuman's "Weapons of the American Revolution". Fascinating device, I would love to read of its T&E results.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
| report to moderator |
|
| |
Topic |
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
Rocket Artillery
